Author Topic: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist  (Read 1827 times)

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Offline Rifleman62

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That's not restricted to Mid- and senior-level officers. Heard NCO's/WO's attempt this when I was serving.

E.G. A recent example. My grandson is deployed on a ship. On Cl "C" Reserve service well before before Xmas. His home unit Clks didn't fix the pay problem for months while on workup trg, prior deployment in January. His immediate supervisor now, uses 2,3 and 4. Had to borrow money from shipmates.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 14:45:47 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2019, 14:51:37 »
That's not restricted to Mid- and senior-level officers. Heard other NCO's/WO's attempt this.

E.G. My grandson is deployed on a ship. On Cl "C" Reserve service well before before Xmas. His unit Clks didn't fix the pay problem for months while on workup trg, prior deployment in January. His immediate supervisor now, uses 2,3 and 4. Had to borrow money from shipmates.

That's hugely unsat; on ships with the onboard pay clerks are the only place I've ever been able to get pay issues quickly sorted out. Especially while on a ship at sea, they have literally no where to go, so there is no excuse. 

That drives me crazy, no one works for free, and if you are worried about money, your mind isn't on the job. Not paying people properly is an unnecessary distraction when we already have enough on the go to worry about, and people can get hurt from mistakes. Our guys had the general understanding that if they had no joy at their level, escalate it upwards until it gets sorted out. That only happened once or twice when the pay office was short handed, and only ever got to the PO level (with the Chief and myself info'd, but didn't need to step in). It's especially stupid, because if the CO or XO gets wind of it, that's when the hammer of god comes down, and that really should be a number 4.

Speaking of consultants, that's another favourite that's come up lately; 'What is the independent SME recommendation?"


 

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2019, 15:25:58 »

Speaking of consultants, that's another favourite that's come up lately; 'What is the independent SME recommendation?"
 

As a consultant, I've had the pleasure of being able to reply once: 'Follow the recommendations in these three reports from your staff, and the suggestions in this summary of our interviews with your stakeholders....'
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2019, 16:24:03 »
As a consultant, I've had the pleasure of being able to reply once: 'Follow the recommendations in these three reports from your staff, and the suggestions in this summary of our interviews with your stakeholders....'

Relevant educational film...

https://youtu.be/nFuxpphnN0k?t=0m17s

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2019, 16:42:06 »
Navy_Pete - He's not Navy, he is attached to the ship for the deployment. Home unit screwed up for months, I think Sep 2018, (apparently that unit has bad rep). Don't know if this has been sorted yet as, as you are aware, he is in/out of contact.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2019, 18:35:50 »
Rifleman - That's a damn shame.  The ship should still have access to his pay file though, and his divisional system should be on top of it. Because they are used to a wide range of people coming and going and all kinds of different claims from every kind of unit coming in, the ships pay clerks are usually pretty swept up.  Is he on a heavy or an MCDV?

daftandbarmy- I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that one; I think my last posting was basically a series of SME reports that came to the same conclusion as my memos, but never had any take up unless it came from outside the GoC.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 19:28:07 »
A Frigate. He has to go through his Sgt to see anyone incl the Pay Writer. It could be sorted now, with no help from the Sgt.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2019, 19:30:53 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 22:51:13 »
A Frigate. He has to go through his Sgt to see anyone incl the Pay Writer. It could be sorted now, with no help from the Sgt.

I have never heard of this on a ship. Everybody has direct access to the paywriter. You don't have to request it from the CoC.

Here is something he can try: he can ask to see the CO. This request must be granted. He can then explain his pay/CoC problem to the CO. Exciting things will happen after that!

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2019, 03:15:00 »
I have never heard of this on a ship. Everybody has direct access to the paywriter. You don't have to request it from the CoC.

Here is something he can try: he can ask to see the CO. This request must be granted. He can then explain his pay/CoC problem to the CO. Exciting things will happen after that!

Or the Padre, if that's an option. The God Bother can skip several links in the CoC in a heartbeat, usually without ruffling feathers.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2019, 09:37:40 »
My daughter said she thinks it has been corrected, will find out when he gets into port.

A young man, limited time in military, new Cpl, first deployment, first time away from home for long period of time, first time out of his environment, on a ship: not as easy as it sounds. The Sgt sounds like he needs a shake, but that's the observation of his subordinate.

He has spoken to the Padre. Possibly why pay may be corrected. Funny, very small world. Padre remembers me from years ago.

The main problem was his home unit incompetence and complete lack of work ethic. You don't go from August (July?) to January deployment with your pay screwed up so badly you have to get an advance so you have some funds. Was still screwed up as he sailed.
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Offline MARS

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2019, 10:15:24 »

You don't go from August (July?) to January deployment with your pay screwed up so badly you have to get an advance so you have some funds. Was still screwed up as he sailed.

You wouldn't think so, however, and I am purely speculating here based on him being on Class C service, but I have twice had to go from the RPSR (reserve pay system) to the CCPS (RegF pay system) and both times I wasn't paid for months except thru advances.

My very limited understanding is that: (a) the two systems can't talk to each other; (b) a reserve clerk needs to do 'something" on the RPSR side before another clerk can do 'something" on the CCPS-side in order to start getting paid Class C wages by the RegF; (c) this 'something' does not appear to be overly complicated; and (d) this 'something' tends to not get done on the reserve side without the member or their advocate hounding the clerk to do it.

It is still bullshit and 6 months is way outside the norm - agreed something is messed up there, but my experience is that even at the best of times, there is a gap in pay that often requires advances. 

Other folks on here who have direct expertise in this stuff that can provide a better answer, but that's my 2 experience.
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Offline garb811

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2019, 10:35:07 »
NOTE:  Split from Loyalty and Dissent: Getting Flag Officers to Hear the Truth

You forgot (e) if it's a CJOC Op, they are also involved within this churn which I have seen delay and/or complicate things even more.

Offline comfortablynumb

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2019, 15:57:53 »
My pay was screwed for quite a while after my CT. Thankfully I had a solid PPCLI Pl WO who eventually lost patience with the system and went to bat for me. Pay problem solved. I was an 18 year old Pte, and didn't even have a car yet. The WO personally drove me to my bank so that I could sort some stuff out. :salute:

Offline Colin P

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2019, 16:45:56 »
Stories that make you happy that some people really do give a **** about the troops under their care.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2019, 17:22:12 »
Lots of one sides here.  I would like to hear from the other sides before I come to any conclusion.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 18:36:30 by Halifax Tar »
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2019, 14:34:42 »
Yesterday, a mbr posted that I failed to promote him years ago and he considered that as a lesson in poor leadership. A case of mistaken identity as PM's clarified. Apology, and his post and my query post quoting the mbr have both been removed.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2019, 10:09:51 »
Had a Face time with Grandson. The CO, XO and Coxn got involved with his pay and was corrected on 18 Feb. The only other outstanding matter is the start date of his Cl C contract which should have been Sep not Oct. Took almost 6 months including two months with zero regular pay, then some advances. A big rigmarole of incompetence at the home unit according to him, but he has kept emails to prove his case.

Then there was his Passport issue.

Thanks very much for all the support from members here.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2019, 13:00:46 »
Had a Face time with Grandson. The CO, XO and Coxn got involved with his pay and was corrected on 18 Feb. The only other outstanding matter is the start date of his Cl C contract which should have been Sep not Oct. Took almost 6 months including two months with zero regular pay, then some advances. A big rigmarole of incompetence at the home unit according to him, but he has kept emails to prove his case.

Then there was his Passport issue.

Thanks very much for all the support from members here.

I wouldn't take it personally...

I was on a Class C contract for a short time a couple of years ago, jumping over from Class A. My tour finished well before they sorted out my pay issues. Everyone involved was very helpful, but the processes they were fighting with internally kept defeating them.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2019, 17:10:02 »
What I've seen over a few deployments, in both systems, is the constant Roto Zero stuff.
Every deployment they try starting from scratch with all the same mistakes for Reservists.

I remember landing in Trenton, expecting to go to Pet for our two day(3?) decompression. Which is what we were told when we boarded. Before us Reservists could get on the bus, we were told nope, you're not going. Asked what we were to do, we were told to find our way home and decompress there. Good start to that, right there. When they got to Pet they would notify the units we were back. That never happened either. I got hold of base and found accommodation at the Yukon Lodge. My friends drove all night to pick me up. Never even got, "It's been a slice." as the bus lights disappeared into the distance. It took almost a year and a half to get my barracks boxes. I was at Div HQ and wandering around I walked down a hall to the stores area. And I could see my boxes, through the cage, covered with dust, all info showing 15 feet from the desk where the guy worked. Same one that kept insisting it wasn't there.

Helping my guys on return, years later, I found little had changed.

AAR's sent by units don't get answered or, "Sorry, we'll try better next time."

That's just my experience though.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 17:16:28 by Fishbone Jones »
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2019, 22:09:45 »
Quote
Every deployment they try starting from scratch with all the same mistakes for Reservists.
Some may not like this comment.

When we did all the Rotos to FYR, the Bde HQ G1 shop were always working with new staff posted in at LFWA HQ. Not the worker bees, who were mostly Cl B's. When we found out there was going to be a LFWA Roto we issued our Adm O, based on experience, with all the info units/soldiers needed to get on Cl C including kit lists. PRes units/soldiers need time to make the volunteer decision, sort out their civ side, work on fitness. We screened and DAG'ed all volunteers (with no guarantees) by the time the Orders were received from LFWA which were always late, one time I believe 2 weeks before the troops were to arr in Edm. How the heck can you go out to PRes units, get volunteers and DAG in less than 2 weeks? Especially Medicals and Dentals.

Of course we were crapped on. Then they were gone. Posted.

We full time Reservists are so dumb.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 23:01:06 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline comfortablynumb

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2019, 23:33:43 »
Had a Face time with Grandson. The CO, XO and Coxn got involved with his pay and was corrected on 18 Feb. The only other outstanding matter is the start date of his Cl C contract which should have been Sep not Oct. Took almost 6 months including two months with zero regular pay, then some advances. A big rigmarole of incompetence at the home unit according to him, but he has kept emails to prove his case.

Then there was his Passport issue.

Thanks very much for all the support from members here.

Glad this got sorted out. A young member on their first deployment (especially out of element, as a PRes augmentee) has enough to worry about without pay issues. I thought I was "something" until I had a few days on ops...suddenly I wasn't sure I could even handle the job. Like I said, enough stress without dealing with some azz backwards CAF admin.

Finally, R62 - it's awesome you got to see your grandson deploy. :salute:

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Administrative Difficulties while deployed as a Reservist
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2019, 01:33:42 »
What I've seen over a few deployments, in both systems, is the constant Roto Zero stuff.
Every deployment they try starting from scratch with all the same mistakes for Reservists.

I remember landing in Trenton, expecting to go to Pet for our two day(3?) decompression. Which is what we were told when we boarded. Before us Reservists could get on the bus, we were told nope, you're not going. Asked what we were to do, we were told to find our way home and decompress there. Good start to that, right there. When they got to Pet they would notify the units we were back. That never happened either. I got hold of base and found accommodation at the Yukon Lodge. My friends drove all night to pick me up. Never even got, "It's been a slice." as the bus lights disappeared into the distance. It took almost a year and a half to get my barracks boxes. I was at Div HQ and wandering around I walked down a hall to the stores area. And I could see my boxes, through the cage, covered with dust, all info showing 15 feet from the desk where the guy worked. Same one that kept insisting it wasn't there.

Helping my guys on return, years later, I found little had changed.

AAR's sent by units don't get answered or, "Sorry, we'll try better next time."

That's just my experience though.

And I have seen that experience repeated for reservists who deploy (on Ops or courses). Reg F people too, just in case we're thinking it's only reservists who get the shaft :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon