Author Topic: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18  (Read 19297 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2018, 17:01:10 »
I will happily pay $8.05 out of my own pocket for a good set of boots...

At that price I'd buy you boots too  ;D


Its really an incredible move by the chain of command that's going to save soldiers money, save the overburdened  medical system time, save the overburdened clothing system time and save the military as a whole money (I think anyways).

I hope the approved list coming out has fairly wide arcs.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 17:34:50 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline kratz

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2018, 17:09:21 »
With so many items paid in full, we see it all too often where members of the CAF forget,
and assume an entitlement that does not exist.

Boots $391 + HST = member paying $51 for boots that fit and actually enable the member to do his job.

Don't bother complaining to me over $51.
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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2018, 02:10:25 »
I will happily pay $8.05 out of my own pocket for a good set of boots...

That scheme isn't for aircrew though   :whistle:
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2018, 08:38:59 »
I know.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2018, 08:56:56 »
That scheme isn't for aircrew though   :whistle:
I can see how you'd need high-speed boots to walk from the taxi into your 4-star hotel room, after a gruelling day of sitting on your butt flying in circles for a few hours.    :nod:

        :stirpot:

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2018, 09:08:44 »
And Conservative politicians will scream about how bad it is the troops have to pay $8.05 for boots under the Liberals  ;D

As awesome as this is, it's still bizarre and sad that we can't issue good boots to our troops, which is a tool about as basic and critical as any of the others we do our work with.
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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2018, 09:40:32 »
I can see how you'd need high-speed boots to walk from the taxi into your 4-star hotel room, after a gruelling day of sitting on your butt flying in circles for a few hours.    :nod:

        :stirpot:

Actually, I would like a set of boots that won't:

A) cripple me from being on my feet on the steel deck of a ship 14-16 hours per day

B) send me straight to the bottom of the ocean, should I have the misfortune to ever have to do a water egress from a helicopter

Offline kev994

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #32 on: July 30, 2018, 10:24:42 »
Actually, I would like a set of boots that won't:

A) cripple me from being on my feet on the steel deck of a ship 14-16 hours per day

B) send me straight to the bottom of the ocean, should I have the misfortune to ever have to do a water egress from a helicopter
Don’t forget freezing into hockey pucks to provide zero traction while simultaneously robbing your feet of any heat through the mandatory steel toe.

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #33 on: July 30, 2018, 16:58:59 »
I don't know what you zoomies are complaining about, the RCAF solved all your kit issues with leather jackets and pearl grey ranks.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2018, 17:05:17 »
I don't know what you zoomies are complaining about, the RCAF solved all your kit issues with leather jackets and pearl grey ranks.

Don't forget 1970s aviators!  All about LCF dude!

Offline garb811

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2018, 21:06:41 »
Call me jaded but...

People think the same organization that has spent what, 15+ years? trying to get a boot that will work via the procurement process is suddenly going to be able to magically come up with a magical pre-approved list with boots that work?  If they could do that, we'd already be wearing these magical boots.  Further to that, I'd be shocked in Logistik agreed to provide more than 2 or 3 different variants via their site so once Phase 3 kicks in, I suspect a lot of people are going to be back to paying for their own boots again.

If we are lucky, we are going to end up in a PLD situation; stuck in limbo in phase 1.

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2018, 21:36:38 »
We'd be set if it was stuck in phase 1 forever. The only problem is dinosaur RSMs only approving black or all leather boots, severely limiting choice.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2018, 22:26:53 »
I don't know what you zoomies are complaining about, the RCAF solved all your kit issues with leather jackets and pearl grey ranks.

Whoa now...don't forget, we also got new mess kit when Blondin was our Boss.
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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2018, 00:53:09 »
As awesome as this is, it's still bizarre and sad that we can't issue good boots to our troops, which is a tool about as basic and critical as any of the others we do our work with.

I fully agree. The inability to procure a decent boot for the troops is indicative of a bigger problem.
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2018, 03:27:27 »
Call me jaded but...

People think the same organization that has spent what, 15+ years? trying to get a boot that will work via the procurement process is suddenly going to be able to magically come up with a magical pre-approved list with boots that work?  If they could do that, we'd already be wearing these magical boots.  Further to that, I'd be shocked in Logistik agreed to provide more than 2 or 3 different variants via their site so once Phase 3 kicks in, I suspect a lot of people are going to be back to paying for their own boots again.

If we are lucky, we are going to end up in a PLD situation; stuck in limbo in phase 1.

The US Military struggled with the same problems for years, now they have a list of 12+ different boots/boot manufacturers that are AR670-1/Berry compliant and are approved for wear. They purchased the boots using their Uniform allowance.

They've had this system in place for 10 years and there's no sign of it changing.

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2018, 04:25:12 »
The US Military struggled with the same problems for years, now they have a list of 12+ different boots/boot manufacturers that are AR670-1/Berry compliant and are approved for wear. They purchased the boots using their Uniform allowance.

They've had this system in place for 10 years and there's no sign of it changing.

The difference is that they have that many US manufacturers, which make it Berry compliant.  We don't, so if "buy Canadian" becomes a requirement then we're stuck to the same 1-2 producers.
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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2018, 11:26:52 »
Greb was the boot manufacturer that provided us boots up to 1987:
In 1974, Greb Industries Limited was purchased by Warrington Products Limited of Mississauga. The company continued to manufacture footwear under the new owners, but the Greb division was then sold in 1987. The Bauer skate division, operating as Canstar Sports, had been relocated to Cambridge and was eventually sold to Nike. The last Greb plant in Kitchener, a Kodiak boot plant on Hayward Avenue, closed its doors in 1991. (Source: https://doorsclosedwaterloo.wordpress.com/greb-industries/)

I think at that time DND/CAF opted/had to go with H.H. Brown and then important shoe quotas were dropped. 

The deterioration in the Canadian share of the domestic market caused shoe manufacturers to seek the protection of the federal government against the flood of imports. The industry maintains that the current market share, less than 50%, threatens the survival not only of the Canadian footwear industry but also of related industries (eg, the leather industry) and many suppliers. In response to the shoe manufacturers' briefs, the government instituted protective measures against imports in 1977 by imposing quotas on all footwear coming into Canada. Quotas were to be in effect until December 1988. (Source: https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/footwear-industry/)

Propping up failing Canadian industries through GCA/DND/CAF Buy Canadian rules have ensured that low cost, compliant contractors created ineffective clothing and footwear for soldiers for decades.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2018, 16:33:47 »
IIRC, the RCAF clunkers in service now are produced by Terra...
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2018, 17:19:42 »
Any bets on if Canadian companies are lining up to try and sue the government for denying them an opportunity to make shitty boots for the militaty?
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Offline garb811

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2018, 21:03:57 »
Probably too much to hope that someone would be consolidating the data from the boots that people are going to be buying during phase 1 and taking a serious look at making the top "x" number of models the pre-approved list.  That would mean admitting knowing that the troops know what is best for them though.

Offline Furniture

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2018, 22:18:40 »
Was just looking at the Lowa and Danner sites for Canada. Seems there are a few decent looking options right now... Can't wait for higher to come down with the base policy. Where I work most wear the army boots that failed, so I imagine the RCAF will take a more enlightened approach to boots than anticipated by some, seems the people fixing planes need RCAF boots more than the rest of us on a Wing. The heaviest thing I carry most days at work is a coffee cup, and the hopes and dreams of a few Cpls... nothing that requires a safety toe.

To be honest I'd take a blanket statement allowing me to buy my own boots, even without reimbursement. I hate that my GP boots have my feet swimming in sweat after a few hours even in the dead of winter.

Offline ballz

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2018, 23:03:14 »
Probably too much to hope that someone would be consolidating the data from the boots that people are going to be buying during phase 1 and taking a serious look at making the top "x" number of models the pre-approved list.  That would mean admitting knowing that the troops know what is best for them though.

The Army SM put out for a return on types of boots a few months ago... I thought for sure it was for an interim solution, not an actual boot allowance. Anyway, on the acims site for the G4 boot working group, he has a presentation on some of the more popular ones. For instance, it states that the Rocky SV2s were the only boot that was received from all Divisions.

However, I question how well-executed this return was. I work in a Div HQ so I received it from the senior non-com that works in my cell who received it from the HQ SM.. however, I know a lot of Combat Arms folks in our Div HQ that never received it... so I can only imagine if it didn't even make from L1 to L2 properly just how many people at unit level were solicited...

Hopefully they take another kick at that one...
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2018, 01:06:59 »
Rocky's are solid (har har).

When I was LPOing boots the supply tech gave me the "old" order form and explained that Rockys werent an option on the new form- which is crazy
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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2018, 11:38:09 »
The Army SM put out for a return on types of boots a few months ago... I thought for sure it was for an interim solution, not an actual boot allowance. Anyway, on the acims site for the G4 boot working group, he has a presentation on some of the more popular ones. For instance, it states that the Rocky SV2s were the only boot that was received from all Divisions.

However, I question how well-executed this return was. I work in a Div HQ so I received it from the senior non-com that works in my cell who received it from the HQ SM.. however, I know a lot of Combat Arms folks in our Div HQ that never received it... so I can only imagine if it didn't even make from L1 to L2 properly just how many people at unit level were solicited...

Hopefully they take another kick at that one...

I'm a G3 guy and I *think* some of us filled out that questionnaire. I'm not sure it moved higher or not.

Have a link to that ACIMS G4 working group?
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