Author Topic: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18  (Read 20387 times)

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Offline Georgian Bay

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2018, 08:58:08 »
So, now that we can get boots that work what are you looking at?
I tried on a pair of Lowas, they won't work. For some reason they don't make 'tactical' boots in wide.  Looking at Merrell Moabs (if they are tall enough) or 5.11 taclite/halcyons.

Any others out there to consider?

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2018, 09:12:41 »
So, now that we can get boots that work what are you looking at?
I tried on a pair of Lowas, they won't work. For some reason they don't make 'tactical' boots in wide.  Looking at Merrell Moabs (if they are tall enough) or 5.11 taclite/halcyons.

Any others out there to consider?

Rocky makes their boots in wide and extra wide, I find them very comfortable just remember to order half a size larger if you do a lot of rucking/walking in them so you have room if your feet swell.
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Offline danteh

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2018, 17:06:44 »
With these new regs being activated on the 15th does that mean I can wear my SWATs on my SQ on the 20th without getting in trouble?

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2018, 17:37:19 »
With these new regs being activated on the 15th does that mean I can wear my SWATs on my SQ on the 20th without getting in trouble?

That's up to your course staff, no one here can answer that.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2018, 13:49:10 »
Aaaaaaaand an order just came down not to go out and buy any boots after the magical 15 August date until the CAF approves a list of what's allowed.

I'm sure that won't take long  8)
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2018, 14:14:59 »
I thought 'what was allowed' was described in the CANFORGEN.  This a case of units, etc *giving direction* IAW that para 8 thing in Chap 1 of the dress regs instead of the CANFORGEN left and right of arcs? 
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Offline Remius

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2018, 14:24:51 »
We currently have a wait out thing going on as well.  Our unit still needs to hash out a process. 
Optio

Offline kratz

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2018, 14:28:41 »
Units making up their own policy, contrary to the CANFORGEN. Jarnhamar's unit is skipping phase I and II with this order.

Quote
D. THE MANAGEMENT OF CBT BOOTS WILL EVENTUALLY TRANSITION TO AN ON-LINE MODEL, SIMILAR TO THE ONE CURRENTLY IN PLACE FOR DEU ITEMS. THIS TRANSITION WILL BE EXECUTED OVER SEVERAL YEARS, AND WILL OCCUR IN 3 PHASES:

(1). PHASE 1. ENTITLED CAF MEMBERS WILL BE ABLE TO PURCHASE CBT BOOTS OF THEIR CHOICE BASED ON SIMPLE SELECTION CRITERIA AND LOCAL CHAIN OF COMMAND GUIDANCE, AND BE REIMBURSED FOR THIS EXPENSE UP TO A PRE-DETERMINED MAXIMUM DOLLAR VALUE. THIS IS AN INTERIM POLICY THAT WILL REMAIN IN EFFECT UNTIL A PRE-QUALIFIED COMBAT BOOT PRODUCT
LIST CAN BE MADE AVAILABLE.
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Offline kratz

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2018, 14:33:47 »
We currently have a wait out thing going on as well.  Our unit still needs to hash out a process.

There's nothing to hash out. Units were notified 3 weeks ago.
90% of the process is contained within the CANFORGEN itself.

Quote
1.   PROCESS FOR PHASE 1

A. PRIOR TO PURCHASING CBT BOOTS, INDIVIDUALS MUST ESTABLISH A LEGITIMATE NEED FOR A NEW PAIR OF BOOTS AND THIS NECESSITY MUST BE AUTHORIZED BY THE INDIVIDUALS CHAIN OF COMMAND. REFS C AND E PROVIDE ADDITIONAL GUIDELINES FOR THIS DETERMINATION. INDIVIDUALS ARE RESPONSIBLE TO PURCHASE A CBT BOOT THAT MEETS THE ABOVE SELECTION
CRITERIA. NON-COMPLIANT BOOTS WILL NOT BE REIMBURSED.

B. ADVANCES FOR CBT BOOT CLAIMS WILL NOT BE ENTERTAINED EXCEPT UNDER EXCEPTIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS AS DEEMED APPROPRIATE BY THE MEMBERS UNIT.

C. INDIVIDUALS MUST SUBMIT THEIR ORIGINAL PROOF OF PURCHASE AND UNIT AUTHORIZATION TO THEIR UNIT ORDERLY ROOM IOT INITIATE THE REIMBURSEMENT PROCESS. THIS WILL BE DONE VIA CF 52, GENERAL ALLOWANCE CLAIM. CERTIFIED COPIES OF CLAIMS MUST BE KEPT ON MEMBERS PERS FILE. RECEIPTS AND SUPPORTING DOCUMENTATION MUST BE DATED WITHIN THE SAME FY AS THE CLAIM BEING SUBMITTED.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2018, 14:42:08 »
Units making up their own policy, contrary to the CANFORGEN. Jarnhamar's unit is skipping phase I and II with this order.

Maybe they thought "local chain of command guidance" was to "wait out".   ???
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Offline Remius

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2018, 14:42:43 »
There's nothing to hash out. Units were notified 3 weeks ago.
90% of the process is contained within the CANFORGEN itself.

It is when the CC isn't on the ground yet and a non clerk is trying to keep things from catching fire.  There are still details that are vague and with reserve units stood down and scattered to the four winds until a few weeks from now getting CoC authorization is a bit difficult at this time.  I already have troops trying to claim boots purchased before Aug 15 because they can't read. 

So yes.  Some things still need to be hashed out.
Optio

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2018, 15:11:14 »
Units making up their own policy, contrary to the CANFORGEN. Jarnhamar's unit is skipping phase I and II with this order.

There is this para from CFP 265, though, that gets used/misused from time to time...

CFP 265, Ch 1 - Command, Control and Staff Duties, (Control) Para 8:

8.  Control is exercised by local commanders who may standardize the dress of subordinates on any occasion, including the wear of accoutrements and alternative or optional items, subject to overall command direction.

* ref the yellow text - IMO the CANFORGEN is 'higher command direction'.  I'm betting there are those who would not agree and will want to introduce some standardization/uniformity into the equation.  Uniformity is important in some regards, mostly for parades if the topic is boots as far as I'm concerned. 
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2018, 15:24:33 »
Originally the plan was that an official boot list would come out after 3 years, but now we're told to wait until an approved list is released. So, maybe we'll get the thumbs up in 3 years lol
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 16:40:44 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2018, 15:26:33 »
Originally the plan was that an offices boot list would come out after 3 years, but now we're told to wait until an approved list is released. So, maybe we'll get the thumbs up in 3 years lol

Any idea how 'high' the order was issued at? Coy, Bn, Brigade?  Army, pan-CAF?

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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2018, 16:13:24 »
I hear some places are waiting on a DIV policy to come down...
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2018, 17:20:41 »
Isn't the CANFORGEN clear enough?   ::)

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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2018, 18:32:20 »
Uniformity is important in some regards, mostly for parades if the topic is boots as far as I'm concerned.

But how does a unit enforce uniformity of combat boots on parade when the supply system is unable to supply a uniform quantity of said boots? I suppose a large enough unit with a stocked kit shop could say "Change of command parade dress will be in Cadpat with xxx model of tan boot. Those lacking a pair of xxx know where the regimental kit shop is." --- but that's certainly subverting the intent of the recent Canforgen.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2018, 18:39:49 »
But how does a unit enforce uniformity of combat boots on parade when the supply system is unable to supply a uniform quantity of said boots? I suppose a large enough unit with a stocked kit shop could say "Change of command parade dress will be in Cadpat with xxx model of tan boot. Those lacking a pair of xxx know where the regimental kit shop is." --- but that's certainly subverting the intent of the recent Canforgen.

That makes it easier then: formal parades = DEUs :)
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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2018, 19:01:25 »
That makes it easier then: formal parades = DEUs :)

Sounds good to me. I've done change of command parades in DEU, in combats, and once even in the paint-by-numbers garrison dress.

But of course, as soon as we had a decent contract to provide DEU clothing directly to the troops, we decided that we didn't want to wear DEU very much anymore, and instead wanted to wear a uniform that was never in stock and had mismatched footwear.

No doubt that once everything is stabilized for Cadpat and boots, every unit will shelve the Cadpat and then start wanting to have parades in a mix of patrol blues and Multicam. Nobody's ever happy.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2018, 19:40:15 »
That makes it easier then: formal parades = DEUs :)

I'm surprised formal parades are in anything other than DEU.  In the midst of a heatwave here (as well as everyone else), thankfully they let the Sqn change of command parade be in 3B this year. 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 20:48:26 by Dimsum »
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2018, 20:25:25 »
... have parades in a mix of patrol blues and Multicam. Nobody's ever happy.

Oxfords, grey wool socks, multicam pants, patrol blue tunic with DEU shirt and tie, and wide-brimmed CADPAT bushcap.  Outdoors when it's sunny and 33 degrees Celsius... in the shade.

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2018, 21:08:02 »
Isn't the CANFORGEN clear enough?   ::)

No, and there are some staff officers working seriously hard to overthink it all and ensure the entire intent of the boot allowance is undermined.
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Offline MJP

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2018, 21:28:03 »
No, and there are some staff officers working seriously hard to overthink it all and ensure the entire intent of the boot allowance is undermined.

Yup I hope from my minor level of influence we institute a level of relative common sense.  The army based on my early read if a certain div policy is still stuck in 1980.
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Offline Old EO Tech

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2018, 22:16:26 »
Yup I hope from my minor level of influence we institute a level of relative common sense.  The army based on my early read if a certain div policy is still stuck in 1980.

Well I can say the 3 Div policy is pretty common sense, we only specified that boots have to be "military in nature" because technically the CANFORGEN would allow cowboy boot etc...

Offline RomeoJuliet

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Re: Combat Boots policy 2018-CANFORGEN 127/18
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2018, 22:49:37 »
Well I can say the 3 Div policy is pretty common sense, we only specified that boots have to be "military in nature" because technically the CANFORGEN would allow cowboy boot etc...
Can get behind cowboy boots as most of 3 Div is in cowboy country. Giddiup!


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