Author Topic: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out  (Read 7651 times)

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2018, 00:36:16 »
These facts might interest you. Its good that he fell on his sword. If it were me all the Obama appointee's should have departed when Trump came in. But hey that's just me. If an appointee objects to policy leaving is best.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-syria-mcgurk-idUSKCN1OL0HX

McGurk was appointed by Obama in 2015 and has been instrumental in shaping Washington’s policy in northern Syria, particularly its backing of Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), an alliance of Kurdish and Arab militia that have been fighting Islamic State with U.S. support for three years.

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2018, 02:09:43 »
These facts might interest you. Its good that he fell on his sword. If it were me all the Obama appointee's should have departed when Trump came in. But hey that's just me. If an appointee objects to policy leaving is best.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-syria-mcgurk-idUSKCN1OL0HX

McGurk was appointed by Obama in 2015 and has been instrumental in shaping Washington’s policy in northern Syria, particularly its backing of Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), an alliance of Kurdish and Arab militia that have been fighting Islamic State with U.S. support for three years.

So merely a coincidence it’s the same last name as the guy that POTUS 43 appointed, then? ???


Regards
G2G

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2018, 02:54:43 »
I guess he served during the Bush administration as a Special Assistant before working for Obama. As I said before if you don't agree with the policy of the President its time to go. He is resigning a few months early at the end of the month. Somehow the government will manage without him.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2018, 07:59:13 »
Somehow the government will manage without him.
It should be able to;  it's shut down, after all.   ;)

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2018, 10:03:25 »
Actually 25% is shut the rest was already funded.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2018, 12:17:01 »
It looks like Trump is firing Mattis before his resignation can take effect. Trump announced today (on twitter of course) that Patrick Shanahan (former Boeing exec) will take over as acting SecDef effective 1 January. Allegedly this is in the wake of the stinging coverage of Mattis' resignation letter in the days following its release.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/23/us/politics/trump-mattis.html

WASHINGTON — President Trump said on Sunday that he would remove Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, who issued a stinging rebuke of the president when he announced his resignation last week, from his post by Jan. 1, two months before he had planned to depart.

Mr. Trump, in a Twitter post, said that Patrick M. Shanahan, Mr. Mattis’s deputy, would serve as the acting defense secretary.

Aides said that the president was furious that Mr. Mattis’s resignation letter — in which he rebuked the president’s rejection of international allies and his failure to check authoritarian governments — had led to days of negative news coverage. Mr. Mattis resigned in large part over Mr. Trump’s hasty decision to withdraw American forces from Syria.

When Mr. Trump first announced that Mr. Mattis was leaving, effective Feb. 28, he praised the defense secretary on Twitter. One aide said that though Mr. Trump already had the resignation letter when he praised Mr. Mattis, he did not understand just how forceful a rejection of his strategy Mr. Mattis had issued.

The president has grown increasingly angry as the days have passed, the aide said. On Saturday, Mr. Trump posted a tweet that took a jab at Mr. Mattis, saying that “when President Obama ingloriously fired Jim Mattis, I gave him a second chance. Some thought I shouldn’t, I thought I should.”

Mr. Mattis, a retired four-star general, led the United States Central Command, which oversees military operations in the Middle East and Southwest Asia, from 2010 to 2013. His tour there was cut short by the Obama administration, which believed he was too hawkish on Iran.

Mr. Shanahan, who, like Mr. Mattis, is from Washington State, is a former Boeing executive. Aides say that Mr. Trump likes him in part because he often tells the president that he is correct to complain about the expense of defense systems.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2018, 13:08:20 »
He would still need to be confirmed by the Senate which shouldn't be a problem since they had confirmed him for the #2 spot. So I doubt that he will be confirmed in Jan. but maybe.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #32 on: December 23, 2018, 13:26:16 »
It looks like Trump is firing Mattis before his resignation can take effect. Trump announced today (on twitter of course) that Patrick Shanahan (former Boeing exec) will take over as acting SecDef effective 1 January. Allegedly this is in the wake of the stinging coverage of Mattis' resignation letter in the days following its release.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/23/us/politics/trump-mattis.html

. . .

I guess someone finally read the Mattis resignation letter to Trump. --- or explained to him what it really said.  ;D

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2018, 13:48:45 »
More on Shanahan/Boeing--note F-15X ( lots more below at https://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,120786.msg1557340.html#msg1557340 )--further links at original:

Quote
Boeing’s Pentagon Takeover
Patrick Shanahan, a former executive for the aerospace giant, is poised to take over for Secretary of Defense James Mattis.

Boeing’s growing clout with U.S. President Donald Trump’s Pentagon can no longer be ignored.

Trump announced Sunday morning on Twitter that he is forcing outgoing Defense Secretary James Mattis to leave earlier than expected, and he named Deputy Secretary of Defense Patrick Shanahan, a former Boeing executive, as acting secretary. Mattis, a retired Marine general, was slated to leave at the end of February. Shanahan will now take over on Jan. 1.

“Patrick has a long list of accomplishments while serving as Deputy, & previously Boeing. He will be great!” Trump tweeted.

Although Shanahan has not been formally tapped for secretary of defense, which requires Senate confirmation, sources say he is one of the White House’s top picks for the job.

Shanahan’s ascent is just the latest manifestation of the growing influence the world’s largest aerospace company has in Trump’s Pentagon. In the last six months, Boeing has won three multibillion-dollar competitions for major Department of Defense aircraft programs, despite massive delays in delivering a new tanker fleet to the U.S. Air Force.

Now, senior Pentagon leaders are forcing the Air Force to purchase a new version of Boeing’s legacy F-15 fighter, a non-stealth jet that first flew in 1972, which will compete for the Air Force’s limited resources with Lockheed Martin’s new F-35 fighter jet.

The reportedly $1.2 billion proposal to buy the a dozen new variants of the “F-15X,” the same version of the aircraft Boeing is building for Qatar, reflects Boeing’s outsize influence with senior leaders in the Trump administration, a phenomenon that dates back to the beginning of the president’s term. As early as February 2017, Trump floated buying additional Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet fighter jets, instead of the F-35. The U.S. Navy placed an order for over 100 new Super Hornets this spring.

Trump also has a personal relationship with Boeing CEO Dennis Muilenburg. The two men negotiated directly to reach a $3.9 billion deal for a new Air Force One presidential aircraft, which Trump claimed saves taxpayers $1.4 billion.

Certainly, Boeing has fought hard to offer the Pentagon its products at extremely competitive prices and allowed the department to boast considerable cost savings.

Boeing has adopted “an across-the-board aggressive posture in lobbying, pricing, and product development, largely due to fears that they were being eclipsed,” said Richard Aboulafia of the Teal Group. In addition, “very strong profits from Boeing’s commercial jetliner side … permits more aggressive bids by the military side.”

Boeing declined to comment.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/12/23/boeing-pentagon-takeover-defense-department-mattis-shanahan/

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #34 on: December 23, 2018, 14:03:57 »
I guess someone finally read the Mattis resignation letter to Trump. --- or explained to him what it really said.  ;D

 :subbies:

He's gotta be on some kind of drugs.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #35 on: December 23, 2018, 14:11:54 »
He's gotta be on some kind of drugs.

I’m sure he approached the matter with his usual maturity, wisdom, and sagacity. He could hardly afford two more months of a rogue SecDef prone to impulsivity and insubordination.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #36 on: December 23, 2018, 14:55:59 »
I’m sure he approached the matter with his usual maturity, wisdom, and sagacity. He could hardly afford two more months of a rogue SecDef prone to impulsivity and insubordination.
I think I try and convince myself that Trumps breaking the politician mold, challenging the status quo and taking an all new approach to being president. But holy crap I just can't wrap my head around what's going through his. He reminds me of those videos of kids in a shopping cart racing down hill towards an intersection.

Maybe what Trump really is is a true example of what a politician is without the polish, glib and silver tongue tradecraft.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2018, 15:04:54 »
Obama fired Mattis over Iran policy. Trump as chief executive can hire or fire anyone he wants. I think resignation over policy is more of a European thing.Look at the Brexit fiasco in the UK.

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2018, 15:20:11 »
I think I try and convince myself that Trumps breaking the politician mold, challenging the status quo and taking an all new approach to being president. But holy crap I just can't wrap my head around what's going through his. He reminds me of those videos of kids in a shopping cart racing down hill towards an intersection.

Maybe what Trump really is is a true example of what a politician is without the polish, glib and silver tongue tradecraft.

I could agree with you to an extent.. but some of the things he has done lacks even proper decent etiquette.

Now I only loosely follow American politics and from I have heard he has done some amazing things. But I think he has wrecked his good with his attitude which is a touch over the edge.. but having said that he may never got into power if he wasnt over the edge.. so it is a catch 22.

He is in charge, he was voted in, so he gets to make the calls. Everyone needs to live with that, so I support him as the legitimate leader of the USA but his followers need not agree with him.. so if some desire to quit because of the course he plots that is all well and good. But if they quit because of his piss poor personality, then that becomes something to address and he could be paving the path for an even more extreme politician to get elected following his model and that could be very bad.

Abdullah

Ps completely misread the post I was replying to. That's why this makes no sense. Sorry.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2018, 13:07:31 by AbdullahD »

Offline FJAG

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2018, 15:53:16 »
I think I try and convince myself that Trumps breaking the politician mold, challenging the status quo and taking an all new approach to being president. But holy crap I just can't wrap my head around what's going through his. He reminds me of those videos of kids in a shopping cart racing down hill towards an intersection.

Maybe what Trump really is is a true example of what a politician is without the polish, glib and silver tongue tradecraft.

Or this:



https://imgur.com/gallery/CtCaY

 :subbies:
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 15:56:22 by FJAG »
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2018, 16:41:54 »
I think I try and convince myself that Trumps breaking the politician mold, challenging the status quo and taking an all new approach to being president. But holy crap I just can't wrap my head around what's going through his. He reminds me of those videos of kids in a shopping cart racing down hill towards an intersection.

Maybe what Trump really is is a true example of what a politician is without the polish, glib and silver tongue tradecraft.

Why try to convince yourself of anything? He's an unqualified egomaniac with a grasp of international relations akin to an 8 year old.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2018, 16:43:58 »
While ink is being spilled due to Secretary Mattis' departure, Senator Rand Paul makes some points supporting the President's decision that triggered the resignation, points that aren't without merit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/rand-paul-trump-syria-withdrawal-1074501

Quote
“I think the burden should be on Gen. Mattis and those who want to stay forever in every war theater around the world, the burden is on them to say, if there's no military solution, why are we still sending more military,” Paul said to host Jake Tapper.

....

“We’ve made it toxic for anyone to talk to Russia,“ Paul said, adding: “If we don‘t talk to Russia, we’re never going to find a peaceful solution to the Syria mess.”
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline tomahawk6

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2018, 18:11:34 »
Mattis signs withdrawal order.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/order-to-withdraw-us-forces-from-syria-signed/ar-BBRmxVc?ocid=spartanntp

I don't think anyone would expect any less. He is a consummate professional to the end.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline FJAG

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2018, 23:00:39 »
While ink is being spilled due to Secretary Mattis' departure, Senator Rand Paul makes some points supporting the President's decision that triggered the resignation, points that aren't without merit.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/12/23/rand-paul-trump-syria-withdrawal-1074501

They are not without merit but look at the issue solely from an isolationist US point of view. ISIS isn't defeated and even if it was, that's nowhere near the end of matters. The area right now is in the middle of a serious poker game with a few additional rounds to play. The key players, Syria, Turkey, Russia, Iran, the Kurds and a few others have conflicting interests. Some of the players have been working towards a conference in Geneva for early next year between the Syrian government and rebels which the Kurds have been balking at being involved in. The Kurds were the US's only cards to play if it wanted a part in determining what a future Syria would look like. In effect the US has not only tossed in it's hand but has already signalled, indirectly and directly, both Syria and Turkey to have at the Kurds--two players out of the game for the price of what exactly?

If Trump has done anything here its to show that he does showy things (like moving its embassy to Jerusalem) but doesn't have the stomach to stand the ground and support the US's allies and proxies (ie the Kurds). The US mission there was neither large nor one of significant danger to US troops but it was a strong symbol. The downstream effect is that the few remaining countries/organizations that still trust the US will quickly slip away. It will take Herculean efforts by subsequent administrations over many years to reestablish that trust and reputation.

 :dunno:
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #45 on: December 24, 2018, 00:48:39 »
The area right now is in the middle of a serious poker game with a few additional rounds to play.

Right, and we've all heard the metaphor to never chase a bad hand - maybe a bad hand is continuing to put blood and treasure into a region with no return on investment?  The Harper government applied that logic in our case and pulled us out of Kandahar in 2011 - perhaps the US administration has grown tired of almost 18 years of pushes, draws, and bad hands and is applying the same logic?   :dunno:

All I'm getting at is that Sen Paul makes a worthwhile argument when he argues that the "stay the course" crowd needs to actually provide the end state.

"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline FJAG

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #46 on: December 24, 2018, 01:23:10 »
. . .
All I'm getting at is that Sen Paul makes a worthwhile argument when he argues that the "stay the course" crowd needs to actually provide the end state.

That is true but when the underlying issue is deeply founded in religion, then the end-state is elusive - or blindingly obvious.

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #47 on: December 24, 2018, 09:11:43 »
I think resignation over policy is more of a European thing.

As I said before if you don't agree with the policy of the President its time to go.

So which is it?   :pop:

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #48 on: December 24, 2018, 09:38:31 »
If you disagree with the policy,quit.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Defense Secretary Mattis Is Out
« Reply #49 on: December 24, 2018, 09:46:41 »
If you disagree with the policy,quit.
Ah, so by "European thing," you meant "principle."  Got it.