Author Topic: Study on training injuries reveals patterns among recruits and officer cadets  (Read 7123 times)

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Offline Journeyman

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Pretty sure you don't need any special training to carry a stretcher.   ;)
To bring the discussion full circle..... fitness.   ;D

Offline daftandbarmy

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That I knew.  Pretty sure you don't need any special training to carry a stretcher.   ;)

However, there's a reason that the PARAs, and others, include a 'stretcher race' of some kind in their selection programs. Probably one of the hardest events I've ever done!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzC-t7kpKWw

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline PMedMoe

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However, there's a reason that the PARAs, and others, include a 'stretcher race' of some kind in their selection programs. Probably one of the hardest events I've ever done!

One year, in Ottawa, after the 13km rucksack march, instead of the fireman's carry, we did a stretcher carry.  No, not easy.  Have done it in the field too, while schlepping webbing, med bag and weapons....even more difficult.   :(
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Offline Blackadder1916

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That I knew.  Pretty sure you don't need any special training to carry a stretcher.   ;)

You would think so, until . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZMtWIkJLyQ

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Offline medicineman

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Well historically, Commonwealth Army musicians tended to also be stretcher-bearers.

/history geek   ;)

So were the PERI's  :nod:

MM
MM

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Offline PuckChaser

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I feel like the PERIs would be far better at doing that then someone who plays jazz flute in a uniform.

Offline mariomike

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Pretty sure you don't need any special training to carry a stretcher.   ;)

You would think so, until . . .

What Blackadder1916 said,
https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/patient-handling/video/323718187-Mother-Jugs-Speed-stretcher-scene/
"What took you so long?"  :)


Offline Old Sweat

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That I knew.  Pretty sure you don't need any special training to carry a stretcher.   ;)

Then why did the army teach me how to carry a casualty on a stretcher on recruit training in the RCA Depot back in 1958?

Offline PMedMoe

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Then why did the army teach me how to carry a casualty on a stretcher on recruit training in the RCA Depot back in 1958?

:dunno:
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Offline Underway

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One year, in Ottawa, after the 13km rucksack march, instead of the fireman's carry, we did a stretcher carry.  No, not easy.  Have done it in the field too, while schlepping webbing, med bag and weapons....even more difficult.   :(

 I agree. My section PT before Afghanistan included stretcher carry.  Carrying your buddy with all their gear, and your gear over rough terrain is not easy.  I actually changed my workouts to add more free weights so that my grip endurance improved.  Grip strength was fine, but after 5 min of hanging onto that stretcher.... ouch

Offline daftandbarmy

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I agree. My section PT before Afghanistan included stretcher carry.  Carrying your buddy with all their gear, and your gear over rough terrain is not easy.  I actually changed my workouts to add more free weights so that my grip endurance improved.  Grip strength was fine, but after 5 min of hanging onto that stretcher.... ouch

As seen at about 0:46, it takes a whole community raise a stretcher across rough ground :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkg5Cr2_F18
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Old Sweat

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Then why did the army teach me how to carry a casualty on a stretcher on recruit training in the RCA Depot back in 1958?

As I recall, this included loading the casualty onto the stretcher and both two and four person carry, including synchronizing our pace to lessen his discomfort. I also think we also were taught this on OCP Phase 1 in 1960.

Offline dapaterson

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Then why did the army teach me how to carry a casualty on a stretcher on recruit training in the RCA Depot back in 1958?

Probably someone said "Well, he's not as smart as a musician or a PERI who can do this on their own, so we better give him a hand..."
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Offline Target Up

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We spent a whole day in basic doing all sorts of stretchery things, including lashing the casualty in and lowering out an upper floor window. More to it than "hands on, prepare to lift".
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Blackadder1916

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Then why did the army teach me how to carry a casualty on a stretcher on recruit training in the RCA Depot back in 1958?

I like DAP's answer better, but then I have been told that I have a sarcastic sense of humour.

The realistic answer is well put forth by this quoted from a US Army research study in 1998 of "Standard and Alternate Methods of Stretcher
Carriage: Performance, Human Factors, and Cardiorespiratory Responses
".

Quote
The requirement to transport casualties is a common soldiering task described in almost all
Army test and evaluation program (ARTEP) manuals as well as in the Soldier's Manual of
Common Tasks. One of the most common ways to transport a wounded or otherwise
incapacitated individual is by stretcher.

That requirement to lift and tote your fellow soldiers was as applicable in the 1950s when you were a young soldier as at any other time.  There may probably have been some greater emphasis placed on stretcher drills in the Canadian Army of the 50s and 60s and maybe even the early 70s due to "National Survival Training" (at least it appears that way to me thinking back to Cornwallis and the amount of time spent on knots, lashings and stretcher handling drills - there was far less emphasis on such when I did CFOCS about a decade later).


I agree. My section PT before Afghanistan included stretcher carry.  Carrying your buddy with all their gear, and your gear over rough terrain is not easy.  I actually changed my workouts to add more free weights so that my grip endurance improved.  Grip strength was fine, but after 5 min of hanging onto that stretcher.... ouch

From that same study

Quote
. . . Two-man carriage times to exhaustion were 4 minutes for hand carriage and 26 minutes with the harness. . . .


Well historically, Commonwealth Army musicians tended to also be stretcher-bearers.

/history geek   ;)

So were the PERI's  :nod:

MM

While the use of bandsmen as SBs was generally thought to be the common operational employment of such in Commonwealth armies, when was the last time such was the case in the Canadian military?  I would hazard a guess that it may not have been that regular an occurrence even during the Second World War.

(From a 1952 Canadian Army HQ Historical Section report) http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/rep-rap/doc/ahqr-rqga/ahq047.pdf
Quote
35. K.R. (Can.) states that bandsmen will be
trained as stretcher bearers and in first aid to the
wounded (K.R.(Can). 1939, para 686). However, the
number of wounded Canadian soldiers who were attended by
bandsmen - stretcher bearers must be small indeed
. In the
first place, few Canadian units had bands with them in
combat areas. In the second place, most of those units
which did have bandsmen or pipers found it advisable
to hold them out of the forward areas
. The Cape Breton
Highlanders kept their pipers looking after stores in
"B" Echelon; the Essex Scottish used their pipers in "B"
Echelon as general duty personnel; the Irish Regiment of
Canada had their pipers handling baggage in the rear for
"stretcher·bearers were easier to come by than pipers"
.
(376.003(D2): Personal Recollections of Serving Officers).

36. P.P.C.L.I. had a bugle band in Italy and in
North-West Europe. However, the band did not have a
continuous existence: it was more or less reformed every
time the unit went into a rest area. Only the band sergeant
and band corporal were considered permanent. To assure their
permanence both were given comparatively safe duties. When
the battalion returned to action, the bandsmen dispersed,
some to their companies, some to Bn H.Q. defence platoon, and
some to the medical section as stretcher bearers
(Ibid).

37. The R.C.R. bugle band was disbanded before the
battalion left England in 1943 since a band was "not on the
War Establishment of an assault battalion in the invasion of
Sicily" (Galloway, Maj S., 55 Axis (Montreal, 1945) p. 11;-6) •
. Nevertheless, the instruments were "smuggled" ashore in Sicily
and then stored at Campobasso during the long winter campaign
on the Adriatic Front. In June 1944 the band was reformed and
became part of the battalion's life. At a ceremonial
promulgation of sixteen Courts-Martial, the culprits were
drummed out of the regiment to the unhappy beat of the
"Rogue's March". The band also played on happier unit and
corps occasions and claimed to be the first Allied military
band to play in St. Peter's Square in Rome (Ibid: pps.
145-147). During the battle for the airfield at Rimini, the
the band was made into an ammunition carrying detail.
While
bringing ammunition to "D" Company they attacked and cleared
a houseful of Germans who had reoccupied the place after "D"
Company passed through. In so doing, they saved "D" Company
from considerable embarrassment and likely casualties (Ibid:
162, 163). This is one of the few instances where bandsmen
as a group took an active part in the fighting
.

Just as few battalions had bands authorized during the war, so was the situation in the peacetime CF.  Even when the number of full-time bands was greater than it is now, the musical organizations (save perhaps for pipes, bugles and drums that were made up from the existing establishment of the unit) were not part of manoeuvre units and could not be called upon as "spare pricks" to use as GDs to do lifting and toting in jobs such as stretcher bearer.  I would suppose that the same would apply to PERIs.  On the sole occasion (about 40 years ago) that I recall being given a GD as a "stretcher bearer", he was an infantryman, I don't know if he had any musical talent however I had to sign him out from the RSM on a temporary loan card (I'm not joking).

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Offline UnwiseCritic

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Fitness and Healthy Lifestyle.  Wouldn't that be just Grand?

We could easily do it if we wanted to, there is zero will to change; however.

I think there is a will just not in the correct places. However, on another note I don't think the CAF is overly capable of internal change. Removing a triservice basic might be useful but I have seen many soldiers get out of shape of PAT platoons that are run poorly. Filling current slots of basic with combat arms only soldiers with a different fitness progression might be a simpler option than splitting it into land, sea and air. Do they not already do this for phase 2 at Gagetown?
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