Author Topic: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case  (Read 62444 times)

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Offline FJAG

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #425 on: March 05, 2019, 16:07:10 »
Trudeau might be changing his tune on the whole affair.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-raybould-philpott-snc-lavalin-1.5043763

One of the steps I stated he might need to do.  Might not be enough but we'll see. Probably should have done that to begin with.

It's this quote that gives me trouble:

Quote
A senior government official said one of the options being discussed is for Trudeau to "show some ownership over the actions of his staff and officials" in their dealings with his former attorney general, Jody Wilson-Raybould.

In effect the line seems to be that as leader he should take responsibility for what his staff did. Fair enough, BUT: its strikes me that what they did was at his direct order. This isn't taking ownership for their actions but fessing up the fact that he's the one behind the whole thing in the first place. I doubt that he'll do that considering how quickly Butts was thrown overboard. If anyone should go it's the Golden Boy himself but I doubt that he will because I think he's too arrogant to let go of his position. He should be joined by Wernick whose veneer of independence is forever stained.

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Offline DetectiveMcNulty

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #426 on: March 05, 2019, 16:15:23 »
I was overseas when Trudeau got elected...I totally bet my Dad via a crappy connection that Trudeau would do two terms because our country was so shallow.

Now I may actually have to pay up...  ;D

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #427 on: March 05, 2019, 16:25:22 »
... its strikes me that what they did was at his direct order ...
As direct an order as can be proven, without cross examining the orderer...
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #428 on: March 05, 2019, 16:37:56 »
Warren Kinsella .....

Quote
Morons. They leak that they’re THINKING about apologizing - thereby ensuring it looks like a cynical comms tactic. Why not just DO it, and be genuine for once? “Trudeau considering a statement of contrition over SNC-Lavalin” #cdnpoli #lavscam

12:55 PM - 5 Mar 2019

https://twitter.com/kinsellawarren/status/1103036352516575233

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Offline QV

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #429 on: March 05, 2019, 17:42:05 »
Liberal MP Leona Alleslev just crossed the floor.

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #430 on: March 05, 2019, 17:46:11 »
 On September 17, 2018, she crossed the floor.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #431 on: March 05, 2019, 17:46:49 »
Will he feign anger or shed a contrite tear?
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #432 on: March 05, 2019, 17:51:24 »
Liberal MP Leona Alleslev just crossed the floor.

She crossed in sept.  Did she cross back again?  ;D
Optio

Offline Haggis

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #433 on: March 05, 2019, 18:12:42 »
The Prime Minister is returning to Ottawa.  Story here.
Conflicting narratives are emerging on this move.  The PMO says he cancelled the visit.  Other sources say due to protests, the GM of the Canadian Tire store he was to visit said he was no longer welcome there.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 18:25:41 by Haggis »
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #434 on: March 05, 2019, 18:22:43 »
McKenna was in Windsor today. They're going full press on climate change trying to change the channel. Both her and freeland stated their support. "I have full confidence in the PM." Both the same, both given without qualification or question.

She was asked about Philpot and JWR. "Two strong women with a different perspective of what really happened."

Isnt that pretty well what trudeau said about the reporter in the Kokanee Groper case?

The more they try make it go away, the worse it gets.

Tarred,  feathered and run out of town on a rail might be too tame for the liberal party in Canadians views.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #435 on: March 05, 2019, 18:30:20 »
Warren Kinsella .....

https://twitter.com/kinsellawarren/status/1103036352516575233
Wow! Kinsella and Ledrew have a Sergeant sized hate on for team Trudeau. Meanwhile, I just watched Sheila Copps rip Dr. P and JWR, calling for their removal from the LPC, basically (without saying it) colored them as carpet baggers.
While the old saying hell hath no fury etc., I've been looking at the back grounds of DMs and Department heads and advisors to both of these former Ministers of the Crown. It seems they both have assembled quite the collage of seething, indignant feminists in their departments. For those thinking/wishing JWR for PM, be careful what you wish for.
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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #436 on: March 05, 2019, 18:41:31 »
I think that it's somewhat telling given Mr Kinsella's political pedigree.

Warren Kinsella - Wikipedia

Of course, Sheila Copps has the opposing view that Ms Wilson-Raybould  and Dr Philpott should be ejected from the LPC.

 :pop: indeed
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Offline YZT580

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #437 on: March 05, 2019, 18:46:29 »
Trudeau might be changing his tune on the whole affair.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-raybould-philpott-snc-lavalin-1.5043763

One of the steps I stated he might need to do.  Might not be enough but we'll see. Probably should have done that to begin with.
  First thing he is going to have to do is either stop lying or learn to lie effectively: he will probably take lessons on the later.  His initial statement said that he had been talking to Philpott and while he regretted her departure he understood her loyalty to her friend.  Now the headline says he knew nothing about it.
That illustrates the greatest problem he is going to have in making a recovery.  Once you have proven yourself an habitual liar it is hard maybe impossible to gain any credibility at all. I still give him one week.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #438 on: March 05, 2019, 19:01:33 »
Credibility with who? The 5% of Canadians who give a crap about that versus what next can I get out of this dude before he's not PM anymore.
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #439 on: March 05, 2019, 19:31:24 »
Credibility with who? The 5% of Canadians who give a crap about that versus what next can I get out of this dude before he's not PM anymore.

Nailed it!  95% of Canadians won't care about this story until it interrupts a hockey game.  Then, it'll be pitchforks and hockey sticks for Trudeau.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #440 on: March 05, 2019, 20:42:58 »
March 19: Federal budget with some nifty new things.

March 26: "To execute this agenda to support and build the middle class, we are returning to the people for a fresh mandate"

May 14: The Running of the Reptiles.


This prediction, plus $2, will get you a large double-double at Timmies.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #441 on: March 05, 2019, 21:11:45 »
Nailed it!  95% of Canadians won't care about this story until it interrupts a hockey game.  Then, it'll be pitchforks and hockey sticks for Trudeau.
I know anecdote =/= singular of data, but a TON of people I know who don't usually care about politics are into this, one side or another.  YMMV
March 19: Federal budget with some nifty new things.

March 26: "To execute this agenda to support and build the middle class, we are returning to the people for a fresh mandate"

May 14: The Running of the Reptiles.


This prediction, plus $2, will get you a large double-double at Timmies.
VERY interesting - see attached :)
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #442 on: March 05, 2019, 22:29:48 »
There have been two factions (eg. Trudeau/Chretien, Turner/Martin) in the LPC for a few decades now.  It's not clear to me who composes the latter group at present.  Without knowing who they are, what their strength is, and what direction they might want to take the party, it's difficult to countenance any of the hypothetical scenarios about what Trudeau et al might do to smooth things over.  The sharpest knives out against the LPC are often those of one faction in the party pitted against the other.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #443 on: March 05, 2019, 22:48:06 »
It's been interesting to see old-school power at any price Liberals (Sheila Copps, I'm talking about you) come out of the woodwork.

Normally, a party has to lose an election to go into deep soul searching mode.  This "Do what we must to retain power" vs "We have principles and ethics" confrontation spilling out and being fought in public is an interesting change from normal internal party politics.
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Offline YZT580

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #444 on: March 06, 2019, 06:41:18 »
There have been two factions (eg. Trudeau/Chretien, Turner/Martin) in the LPC for a few decades now.  It's not clear to me who composes the latter group at present.  Without knowing who they are, what their strength is, and what direction they might want to take the party, it's difficult to countenance any of the hypothetical scenarios about what Trudeau et al might do to smooth things over.  The sharpest knives out against the LPC are often those of one faction in the party pitted against the other.
Someone or some group within the party certainly is out for blood.  Telegraphing his possible tactics in advance has just eliminated the owning up to it route for Justin. Now it will only make him appear more opportunistic.  I'm guessing a palace coup and it will be arbitrated by his own faction.  Chretien and co. will not support Trudeau but will initiate the lynching if they see any way of staving off losing power.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #445 on: March 06, 2019, 07:41:46 »
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/03/05/news/snc-lavalin-lawyer-iacobucci-urged-resign-trudeaus-trans-mountain-envoy

SNC-Lavalin lawyer Iacobucci urged to resign as Trudeau's Trans Mountain envoy

By Alastair Sharp in News, Energy, Politics | March 5th 2019

Frank Iacobucci's name popped up a couple of times in Jody Wilson-Raybould's bombshell Feb. 27 testimony before the House of Commons justice committee about allegations of political interference in her last months as attorney general of Canada.

Some First Nations in British Columbia will also recognize the name from recent invitations to attend talks about the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion project.

Iacobucci is a retired Supreme Court justice and lawyer for Torys LLP, whom Quebec engineering and construction company SNC-Lavalin hired to help it secure a plea deal and avoid a criminal conviction on corruption charges.

Wilson-Raybould told the Commons committee that his name came up during a conversation between a member of her staff and Ben Chin, chief of staff to Finance Minister Bill Morneau on Sept. 11, when Chin "noted" that the retired judge was representing the Quebec company.

About a week later, Wilson-Raybould heard his name again during a chat with the government's top public servant, Michael Wernick, who is clerk of the Privy Council Office in Canada.

"The clerk brought up job losses and that this is not about the Quebec election or the PM being a Montreal MP," Wilson-Raybould said, recounting a Sept. 19 meeting with Wernick. "He said that he understands that SNC is going back and forth with the (director of public prosecutions), that they want more information. He said that 'Iacobucci is not a shrinking violet.'"

Two weeks after that meeting, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's government announced a new job for Iacobucci on Oct. 3, 2018. The retired judge, still representing SNC-Lavalin, was now being appointed as Trudeau's special envoy for discussions with First Nations in British Columbia about the Trans Mountain expansion project.

<snip>

Now, a prominent First Nations leader in British Columbia says it's time for the retired Supreme Court justice to quit one of those two jobs.

"I do not feel that Justice Iacobucci can negotiate with those whose consent must be freely granted before the Trans Mountain project can proceed, since it's unclear whose interests he is really representing," Chief Judy Wilson, the secretary-treasury of the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs (UBCIC), told National Observer in a telephone interview on Monday.

"We're unclear if the Liberal government even realizes the conflict, but we call upon the federal government to ask Frank Iacobucci to step down from one of these positions," said Wilson, a representative of the ???Neskonlith Indian Band within the Secwepemc Nation.

<snip>

https://nationalpost.com/news/snc-lavalin-ceo-urged-cabinet-to-change-policies-expeditiously-in-2017-letter

SNC-Lavalin CEO urged cabinet to change anti-corruption policies 'expeditiously' in 2017 letter

The letter, obtained by The Canadian Press under access-to-information law, shows a high-level push for policy changes to help the engineering and construction giant avoid prosecution

Andy Blatchford

March 5, 2019 5:03 PM EST

OTTAWA - The head of SNC-Lavalin told the Canadian government it had to change its anti-corruption rules "as expeditiously as possible" in a 2017 letter to the minister in charge of procurement, just as her department was helping oversee public consultations on lighter punishments for corporate misconduct.

SNC-Lavalin CEO Neil Bruce wrote to Public Services Minister Carla Qualtrough on Oct. 13, 2017 and sent copies of his message to seven other senior cabinet ministers.

Bruce also attached his company's official submission for the consultations, which were examining possible changes to the "integrity regime" and the potential creation of a plea-bargain-type tool known as a deferred-prosecution agreement or remediation agreement.

<snip>

The letter, obtained by The Canadian Press under access-to-information law, shows a high-level push for policy changes to help the engineering and construction giant avoid prosecution.

<snip>

SNC-Lavalin lobbied federal officials, including in the Prime Minister's Office, to put remediation agreements into the law.

A few months after the public consultations in fall 2017, the Trudeau government included the Criminal Code amendment creating the agreements in last spring's 582-page omnibus budget bill.

<snip>

https://globalnews.ca/news/5023506/liberal-steve-mackinnon-snc-lavalin-entitled-remediation/

March 5, 2019 3:20 pm

Liberal Steve MacKinnon walking back claim SNC-Lavalin ‘entitled' to avoid criminal trial

By Amanda Connolly

Gatineau Liberal MP Steve MacKinnon is walking back his claim that SNC-Lavalin is "entitled" to a deferred prosecution deal to avoid criminal trial.

Speaking in a scrum following a speech in Ottawa on Tuesday, MacKinnon said his remarks on CBC's Power & Politics on Monday night were an "unfortunate choice of words" but stressed his sentiments for why he thinks the firm should get a deal remain the same.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/trudeau-talking-points-1.5044266

Trudeau's verbal porridge and serene smile have carried him along. Until now: Neil Macdonald

He either doesn't think the public deserves a straight answer, or just isn't capable of delivering one

Neil Macdonald CBC News Posted: Mar 06, 2019 4:00 AM ET

If you're looking for some instructive reading, go look up an aggregation of utterances by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

Some are already famous for their loopiness: budgets balance themselves, the government shouldn't call honour killings barbaric, we need to rethink the definitions of space and time, we should say "peoplekind" instead of "mankind" (he may actually have been making fun of himself with that one).

Most, though, are just syrupy, unmemorable banalities about values and optimism and respect and caring for one another.

Like this masterpiece of tautology the day he was sworn in as prime minister: "The diversity that makes this country so strong is a diversity of views that will carry us forward."

Trudeau's happy blather was digestible enough at first, particularly after nearly a decade of Stephen Harper. Like tapioca after heartburn. But as it kept coming, picked up and amplified by his cabinet ministers, it began grating on the nerves, the way retail Christmas-carol Muzak does by late November.

Eventually, it became clear that our prime minister didn't really have much else to say. He relies more heavily on talking points than any Canadian leader in my memory (40-plus years), his answers swollen with extraneous words and catchphrases crafted by his messaging experts.

He and his ministers are capable of answering nearly any question with some vow of support for "the middle class and those who are working so hard to join it," an annoyingly meaningless phrase that's become a banner for his government.

In any case, this verbal porridge, delivered with a serene smile, has carried him along. Until now.

With his government sinking into a self-inflicted crisis, it's beginning to appear that Justin Trudeau simply doesn't have the intellectual acuity to cope.

Look at his response to the testimony of Jody Wilson-Raybould last week. She had just finished delivering a measured, unambiguous indictment, accusing him and his staff of attempting to pervert justice for political gain.

He could have answered his former justice minister fact for fact. Instead, Trudeau appeared a few hours later in Montreal, two rows of nervously smiling party volunteers arranged behind him, a newly elected MP standing haplessly to the side. His statements were as stilted and contrived as the optics.

"We will stand up and defend and create jobs, and we will always defend our institutions and rule of law."

<snip>

This is a man who either doesn't think the public deserves a straight answer, or just isn't capable of delivering one.

And there was the flicker of condescension he's shown before; it was important, he said, that Wilson-Raybould be able to speak, and he was glad he'd allowed her to.

Uh-huh. He was glad.

It was much the same performance this week, after Jane Philpott followed Wilson-Raybould out the cabinet door, declaring she could not square her constitutional obligations as a minister of the Crown with the evidence she'd seen of political interference.

A few hours later, at a rally in Toronto to gin up support for a carbon tax, Trudeau made a manic entrance, grinning and high-fiving and flesh-pressing and trying to look happy, before grabbing Environment Minister Catherine McKenna in an awkward hug, and, puzzlingly, yelling, at a Liberal rally, "Are there any Liberals in the house?"

Then, more empty message track.

"In a democracy like ours and in a space where we value our diversity so strongly, we're allowed to have disagreements and debate, we even encourage it. This matter has generated an important discussion."

Oh, and also, he's taking it all seriously. So there's that.

<snip>

Actually, there are more honest moments in the pantheon of Trudeau's quotations than in any of his performances in the past few weeks.

Back in 2013, former Global anchorman Tom Clark asked Trudeau about his intellectual substance.

His answer: "You know, I'm not going to go around reciting Pi to the 19th decibel or you know wave my grades, or test scores to people. I'm going to simply do what it is that I have to do." Most people can't recite Pi to any decibel, let alone decimal.

In another encounter with Clark a year later, this time jammed into the cabin of Clark's little airplane, he talked about the necessity of educating people (read: all of us).

"I am a teacher. It's how I define myself. A good teacher isn't someone who gives the answers out to their kids but is understanding of needs and challenges and gives tools to help other people succeed."

To the National Post's John Ivison, he declared: "Who cares about winning? We should focus on serving." (Actually, according to Wilson-Raybould, Trudeau cares a great deal about winning, to the point where he's ready to overturn a prosecutor's decision, if that's what it takes).

But it was to CTV that he was probably most candid.

"At one point," he told the program W5, "people are going to have to realize that maybe I know what I'm doing."

Or not. On the evidence of the past few weeks, I'm thinking not.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-trudeaus-liberals-are-disappointed-in-a-leader-found-wanting-but-hes-still-their-best-shot-at-re-election

John Ivison: Liberals are disappointed in a leader ‘found wanting,' but Trudeau still has a way out of crisis
Nothing will be the same again for Trudeau. The spell has been broken and the idea that he could be a one-term wonder is no longer implausible

John Ivison   

March 5, 2019 6:10 PM EST

The Liberal Party's impulse to form a circular firing squad has created a moment in Canada's political history that could change everything.

What John Stuart Mill called "the deep slumber of decided opinion" has been disrupted and the public roused. The sense that Justin Trudeau was pre-destined to be prime minister for as long as he wished has been shaken and it is entirely conceivable that he loses the election seven months from now.

<snip>

There is a belief that the cabinet is united behind a prime minister who spent much of the afternoon discussing options for future action. But, if cabinet has expressed support for Trudeau, caucus is restive.

One senior MP, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the overriding mood is of disappointment in the prime minister's leadership. "The caucus is united in a desire to get re-elected. It is not necessarily united in a desire to be elected behind him," they said.

Another MP said Trudeau should survive this storm, "but not without damage."

There are no signs of a leadership challenge - yet. The question the prime minister must mull is: for how long?

<snip>

Nothing will bury this story but if this prime minister is going to survive, he has to send public opinion back into a deep slumber. That would rule out booting Philpott and Wilson-Raybould from caucus, which would lead to a media feeding frenzy.

The public mood may get worse before it gets better. Editorial cartoonists have portrayed Wilson-Raybould as Tank Man, the Chinese student who stood in front of a column of tanks during the Tiananmen Square protest in 1989.

<snip>

Butts and Wernick are going to have to be persuasive if they are going to sway public opinion from the former justice minister's narrative, which many Canadians have taken as gospel.

More importantly for the Liberals, Trudeau needs to demonstrate to his caucus and the country that he can handle a crisis he has helped to agitate.

https://www.thestar.com/politics/political-opinion/2019/03/05/why-does-trudeau-seem-to-be-always-caught-off-guard.html

Why does Trudeau seem to be always caught off guard?

By Susan DelacourtNational Columnist

Tues., March 5, 2019

In a rollicking couple of months filled with surprise developments for Justin Trudeau, one enduring question lingers - why does the prime minister keep being surprised?

<snip>

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/could-the-liberal-caucus-turf-justin-trudeau-if-they-wanted-maybe-but-not-easily

Could the Liberal caucus turf Justin Trudeau, if they wanted to? Maybe, but not easily

Here's a breakdown of how the Liberals could theoretically turf Trudeau, why it's so complicated, and how other countries do it differently

Maura Forrest

March 5, 2019 7:38 PM EST

OTTAWA - Since Jane Philpott's resignation from cabinet on Monday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's remaining ministers have rallied around him, declaring he still has their support.

Many backbench MPs have also said they still have faith in the prime minister, despite the fallout from the SNC-Lavalin controversy.

Still, there are some rumblings of uncertainty. On Tuesday morning, Toronto Liberal MP Nathaniel Erskine-Smith told the CBC that he wants to hear more about the kind of pressure that was brought to bear on former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould to negotiate an agreement with the Quebec engineering giant that would have avoided a criminal prosecution on corruption charges. "If in the end it's found that the intervention was made for naked partisan gain and electoral gain, then that would cause me to lose some confidence," he said.

"I will say this inquiry is not complete, and I can imagine a situation where if it winds up in one place I'll be very happy to run again, and if it winds up in another place, I may well find myself as a lawyer again instead."

<snip>

Trudeau gives his best explanation of everything ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnTMK-ykZPk

Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #446 on: March 06, 2019, 09:50:27 »
Good links Loachman.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 10:22:28 by Remius »
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #447 on: March 06, 2019, 10:15:51 »
Thanks Loachman.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 12:24:31 by Rifleman62 »
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #448 on: March 06, 2019, 10:21:41 »
Did you notice Loachman posted that article link 2 hours ago?

I did not.  I'll remove it.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #449 on: March 06, 2019, 10:28:36 »
Jody Wilson-Raybould.

Chief Bill Wilson

Chief Judy Wilson, chief of the Neskonlith Indian Band in B.C, the secretary-treasury of the Union of British Columbia Indian Chiefs (UBCIC)

I know that Bill Wilson is Ms Jody Wilson-Raybould's father.

Does anyone know if there is any relationship to Chief Judy Wilson?
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