Author Topic: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case  (Read 53586 times)

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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #350 on: March 04, 2019, 08:40:04 »
It's not so much that the media has been bought... it's that they don't like to be reminded of the fact.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #351 on: March 04, 2019, 09:03:32 »
There is now talk in the "friendly" and "bought" media that a LPC caucus revolt may become a reality and speculation on who should lead.

Interesting times...

We've talked a lot about positive alternatives to Sheer. Who would be the best alternative to Trudeau? And please don't say ANYONE; I'm legitimately asking who are the real component and confident senior leadership types in the LPC. (And again, don't say NO ONE).

Freeland? Goodale? Morneau?

I know these people by their names and positions, but I don't really know if they would make strong PMs.
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #352 on: March 04, 2019, 09:53:31 »
We've talked a lot about positive alternatives to Sheer. Who would be the best alternative to Trudeau? And please don't say ANYONE; I'm legitimately asking who are the real component and confident senior leadership types in the LPC. (And again, don't say NO ONE).

Freeland? Goodale? Morneau?

I know these people by their names and positions, but I don't really know if they would make strong PMs.

Freeland comes to mind.  She's been prominent in the media, would maybe regain the feminist angle and has been pretty effective as a minister.

Ralph Goodale is solid I think (Barring a few misspoken words while trying to do damage control for the boss)

Forget Morneau.  The guy has too many ethical mistakes of his own and is too linked to JT.

I know some say JWR but...the party will likely not let that happen.  She had a good performance, seems ethical and would check the box for aboriginals and women but she doesn't speak French, is relatively inexperienced and remember that many many people praising her right now were the same ones criticising Trudeau for putting people like her in cabinet to get checks in the box. 

I would support any of them minus Morneau if they were leader.   
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #353 on: March 04, 2019, 09:54:42 »
We've talked a lot about positive alternatives to Sheer. Who would be the best alternative to Trudeau? And please don't say ANYONE; I'm legitimately asking who are the real component and confident senior leadership types in the LPC. (And again, don't say NO ONE).

Freeland? Goodale? Morneau?

I know these people by their names and positions, but I don't really know if they would make strong PMs.

Are you asking who might have the means and motive to successfully pull off a cabinet revolt or are you asking if, in a hypothetical world where Trudeau decided tomorrow to resign because he really enjoys teaching high school more than being PM who would be the best candidate to replace him until the next election?

If it is the first, I don't see anyone other than JWR herself pulling off a coup, and only then if enough cabinet ministers get really, really scared about the next election.

If it is the second, i would see either Freeland or McKenna taking the reigns. I don't honestly see all that much talent or ambition in this cabinet- maybe by design. Keeps them under the thumb of the PMO...

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #354 on: March 04, 2019, 10:04:52 »
Are you asking who might have the means and motive to successfully pull off a cabinet revolt or are you asking if, in a hypothetical world where Trudeau decided tomorrow to resign because he really enjoys teaching high school spending more time with the family more than being PM who would be the best candidate to replace him until the next election?
Edited to add "the usual suspect" cliché ... ;)
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #355 on: March 04, 2019, 10:40:17 »
Remius:
Quote
..... )JWR) is relatively inexperienced.....

What experience (Life, business/political) did Mr. Trudeau have before becoming the PM?

JWR was a, has got a law degree (which she utilized, called to the bar in 2000), became a  Crown Prosecutor (2000–2003), and is apparently a QC.

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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #356 on: March 04, 2019, 10:53:40 »
Remius:
What experience (Life, business/political) did Mr. Trudeau have before becoming the PM?

JWR was a, has got a law degree (which she utilized, called to the bar in 2000), became a  Crown Prosecutor (2000–2003), and is apparently a QC.

Rifleman, I doubt you were defending Trudeau's lack of experience when he ran. That isn't the point.

JWR has no chance.  The internal party issues are to great.  Too many people would work against her. I'm listing the things she has going against her.  Relative inexperience will be brought up by her detractors, heck the media has already gone there.  Do I think she could do it, yes, but for the many reasons and challenges I'm listing I don't see it happening.  I realise that some of you are star struck given her performance but unless the party backs her it can't happen.   If you think the party will back her with all their back room shenanigans you are all grasping and I doubt that even you Rifleman believe that the LPC is capable of letting her do that.  I like her and I respect what she did but the machine won't allow it.

Not now.  Maybe after an electoral loss.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #357 on: March 04, 2019, 11:16:20 »
 I'd like to see Rona Ambrose run against Jody Wilson-Raybould… and I don't even think I'm a feminist!   ;D

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #358 on: March 04, 2019, 11:19:58 »
I'd like to see Rona Ambrose run against Jody Wilson-Raybould… and I don't even think I'm a feminist!   ;D

Rona Ambrose would be PM today if she had run and we wouldn't be in this mess.

No it will be Andrew Scheer vs Trudeau (assuming he does not get ousted) and I bet Scheer will screw it up....

He's already jumped the gun according to some on this affair.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #359 on: March 04, 2019, 13:20:50 »
Goodale is <edited> and it will show. Garneau has managed to stay out of the shitshow so far and appears to be the "wise elder" in the background. He may not be able to win, but he would likley be good for the healing process.

Edited to remove a statement which was contrary to the guidelines for posting in the political forums.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 17:21:48 by garb811 »

Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #360 on: March 04, 2019, 13:22:26 »
Goodale is <edited> and it will show. Garneau has managed to stay out of the shitshow so far and appears to be the "wise elder" in the background. He may not be able to win, but he would likley be good for the healing process.

Garneau would make a better interim leader I think. 
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 17:23:14 by garb811 »
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #361 on: March 04, 2019, 13:40:42 »
Not a chance we'll see Trudeau step down before the election. We're eight months out, we're about to enter a really gross and protracted campaign... SNC is going to be a weight around his ankle, but at present there's no smoking gun for anything illegal, and even JWR characterized is as not illegal. This won't sink the government, it will just make te election suck more for them and will firm up some voting intentions while swaying a limited number of others. I don't think many votes will actually really swing on this over the course of the entire campaign.

That said, the election looks pretty set to be a toss up at this point, with the usual 'anything can happen' caveat.

Would Trudeau step down if the LPC win a minority? Probably not- if he can weather this storm he'll probably keep the helm. For a Liberal leadership replacement we would probably need to see a CPC victory.

There's really not a lot of name recognition outside of the top half of Cabinet. Freeland immediately jumps to the top of my mind - she has stickhandled foreign affairs, particularly with the US, about as well as could be hoped. Being orn in Alberta wouldn't hurt her much, and she has good business experience- I think she's firm grounded in the 'real world' when it comes to trade and finance. Goodale has the political clout to potentially put it off, but I think people would be looking for someone a bit more fresh... That said, he is very highly experienced in Parliament and in the senior levels of the party, and that has something to be said for it. He would avoid many of the missteps that have plagued PMJT.

Outside of those two, nobody really stands out, though several have kept their noses suitably clean.

Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline tomydoom

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #362 on: March 04, 2019, 15:18:08 »
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #363 on: March 04, 2019, 15:20:29 »
Philpott: "I must abide by my core values, my ethical responsibilities and constitutional obligations," she said in a statement.

"There can be a cost to acting on one's principles, but there is a bigger cost to abandoning them."

Oh boy. Something’s up.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #364 on: March 04, 2019, 15:24:41 »
Wow... further up the thread I was going throw her name in as possible interim leaders if the wheels come all the way off the wagon before October... did not see that coming...
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #365 on: March 04, 2019, 15:24:50 »
Given the current rate of change, we must amend "A week is a long time in politics" to read "A day is a long time in politics."
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #366 on: March 04, 2019, 15:31:43 »
Rebellion. 

Maybe JT will be forced out over this.  I can't see how he can survive much more of his cabinet resigning.  Now what?  Kick her out too?

Looking at possible successors is becoming more and more a reality...
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #367 on: March 04, 2019, 15:34:57 »
American Thinker suggests there is a much, much greater issue that will bring the Liberals down: the Economy.

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/03/can_prettyboy_justin_trudeau_survive.html

Relevant quote:

Quote
This is an especially dicey time for the boy-wonder from the Great White North. Not only does he have the SNC scandal to answer for but now the economy is sagging. On Friday, the Financial Post reported that Canada's economy practically came to a halt in the final three months of 2018 in a much deeper-than-expected slowdown. The country's economy grew by just 0.1 per cent in the fourth quarter, for an annualized pace of 0.4 per cent, Statistics Canada said Friday.

Considering we are tied at the hip to the world's largest economy, and the US economy has seen an explosive 100% jump in economic growth from 2% to 4% since 2016, this result seems incredible. Of course since Canada did not adjust tax rates to meet the challenge of US tax reform we hav lost $100 billion in foreign investment, and the blockade on pipeline construction deprives the canadian economy of millions of dollars per day (and to add insult to injury, we also spend millions of dollars to import Saudi Arabian oil to supply the East Coast...).

People may not remember all the scandals and gaffes, but they will be very aware of their pocketbooks....
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #368 on: March 04, 2019, 15:46:37 »
Rebellion. 

Maybe JT will be forced out over this.  I can't see how he can survive much more of his cabinet resigning.  Now what?  Kick her out too?
I think it's still a touch early for that (as of this post, anyway), but stand by for further evacuees ...
Given the current rate of change, we must amend "A week is a long time in politics" to read "A day is a long time in politics."
:nod:
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Offline Remius

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #369 on: March 04, 2019, 15:49:48 »


Maybe milnews,  but pressure just intensified and likely derailed an already derailed plan.
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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #370 on: March 04, 2019, 15:52:17 »
Maybe milnews,  but pressure just intensified and likely derailed an already derailed plan.
Fair enough, but my  :2c: is still that we're not seeing rebellion -- the crack in the dyke IS getting bigger, though.

To fuel thought experiments and to act as a "speculation score card" of sorts, here's the list of Ministers in order of precedence as of JUST before Philpott leaving ...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 20:14:32 by milnews.ca »
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #371 on: March 04, 2019, 15:53:03 »
So do we get another MVA now? ;D
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #372 on: March 04, 2019, 15:55:34 »
And the government slowly disintegrates

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/philpott-resignation-trudeau-snc-lavalin-1.5042411
Aaaaand the letter, with the "nut grafs" pulled if you don't want to read the whole thing ...
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Offline QV

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #373 on: March 04, 2019, 16:24:51 »
.... This won't sink the government...

As the government falls apart.

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Re: Alleged PMO obstruction in SNC Lavalin case
« Reply #374 on: March 04, 2019, 17:02:48 »
As the government falls apart.

Could be I’m wrong- for the time being, we’ll have to see if this turns into real momentum. The possibility also exists that if cabinet revolts hard and fast, that may allow for consolidation in time for the election. But a cabinet shakeup and a couple resignations eight months out is not a definite death knell for the current government.

In case it’s been lost or forgotten, I do hope to see the LPC defeated in the next election, but I’m still going to be pragmatic and objective as I watch what’s happening.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.