Author Topic: General Election: Oct 21, 2019  (Read 73440 times)

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #450 on: October 13, 2019, 15:39:39 »
A four-pager from the U.S. Congressional Research Service on the upcoming Canadian election attached - here's the bit on NORAD from "Potential Implications" ...
Quote
In 2017, Prime Minister Trudeau and President Trump agreed to modernize and broaden the binational NORAD command, charged with defending U.S. and Canadian airspace and monitoring potential aerospace and maritime threats to North America. The Liberal government also adopted a new defense policythat will increase nominal defense spending by 73% over the next decade to acquire new equipment and capabilities. Nevertheless, it has been slow to modernize Canada’s fleet of aging fighter aircraft, leading some analysts to question whether Canada will be able to meet its NORAD commitments. Conservative leader Scheer has pledged to strengthen U.S.-Canadian defense ties by seeking to join the U.S. ballistic missile defense program and ensuring fighters selected through a new procurement process are interoperable with those of the United States.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #451 on: October 13, 2019, 18:38:37 »
A four-pager from the U.S. Congressional Research Service on the upcoming Canadian election attached - here's the bit on NORAD from "Potential Implications" ...

Pretty good analysis I must say.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #452 on: October 14, 2019, 11:58:49 »
I wanted to feel old so I checked out Reddits Canadian politics forums.Pretty interesting to read about how they see Conservatives.

Lots of the posters, I'd say majority, seem to think the Conservatives are going to ban gay marriage, make abortions illegal, cut spending to school and education (with a number thinking post secondary education should be free), ban immigrants from coming into Canada, force the catholic church on everyone and on and on.

It seems like they're so terrified of this image of what the conservatives would do that they would vote for a pineapple to keep the conservatives out.
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #453 on: October 14, 2019, 12:03:49 »
I wanted to feel old so I checked out Reddits Canadian politics forums.Pretty interesting to read about how they see Conservatives.

Lots of the posters, I'd say majority, seem to think the Conservatives are going to ban gay marriage, make abortions illegal, cut spending to school and education (with a number thinking post secondary education should be free), ban immigrants from coming into Canada, force the catholic church on everyone and on and on.

It seems like they're so terrified of this image of what the conservatives would do that they would vote for a pineapple to keep the conservatives out.

Wonder where they could possibly be getting such an outrageous idea... ::)
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #454 on: October 14, 2019, 12:27:23 »
Do you think the Conservatives plan to ban gay marriage and make abortion illegal?
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Offline Haggis

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #455 on: October 14, 2019, 12:52:10 »
Do you think the Conservatives plan to ban gay marriage and make abortion illegal?

The short answer is "no".  Scheer has already come out (see what I did there) to state that he will respect the existing laws of the land and will vote against any motions by his MPs to reopen the abortion debate.  He did not, however, explicitly state that he will not allow any Conservative MPs to table motions to reopen the abortion debate or change the legality of gay marriages.

Hardcore Christian fundamentalist "conservatives" in the US have made significant headway in banning gay marriage and making abortion illegal.  Once again the left draws convenient parallels between Canadian and US politics.

Conversely, I'm surprised that the other parties, notably those who are pro-choice,  have not reminded Canadians about the now-defunct Canada Summer Jobs program abortion rights requirement.
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #456 on: October 14, 2019, 12:53:01 »
Do you think the Conservatives plan to ban gay marriage and make abortion illegal?

Their “plans” as a collective party don’t really matter in the eyes of some younger voters. Instead, what they see, hear and read from individual candidates is what forms their idea of what direction the party is likely to (try and) take the nation.

If a candidate is openly vocal in a multitude of private and public settings about topics they view as rights and/or privileges for all CDN citizens, and their respective party seemingly supports/upholds their viewpoints without question or condemnation of any kind, then those same voters are essentially automatically going to assume that the party as a whole will be directly in line with the opinions expressed. (And, btw, the same goes for the Liberals et. al.)

Ultimately, many young voters (and some old voters too) aren’t interested in doing thorough and lengthy research on their own. They will form their opinions based solely on the most easily accessible excerpts of information flashed in front of them. And unfortunately, when candidates choose to blur the lines between their personal beliefs vs their party’s ideology and what is in the best interests of all Canadians, then everyone loses.
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #457 on: October 14, 2019, 13:36:38 »
For what it is worth to the discussion, this Ipsos report of voting intentions caught my eye. 4 October 2019.
https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Significant-Gender-Gap-in-Voting-Intentions-Among-Younger-Canadians

Females age 18-34:
CPC 24%

Males age 18-34:
CPC 31%

May not determine who gets in.

But, it seems to indicate the CPC has a rather significant gender gap among young Canadian voters.


Offline PuckChaser

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #458 on: October 14, 2019, 13:40:16 »
Their “plans” as a collective party don’t really matter in the eyes of some younger voters. Instead, what they see, hear and read from individual candidates is what forms their idea of what direction the party is likely to (try and) take the nation.

If a candidate is openly vocal in a multitude of private and public settings about topics they view as rights and/or privileges for all CDN citizens, and their respective party seemingly supports/upholds their viewpoints without question or condemnation of any kind, then those same voters are essentially automatically going to assume that the party as a whole will be directly in line with the opinions expressed. (And, btw, the same goes for the Liberals et. al.)

Ultimately, many young voters (and some old voters too) aren’t interested in doing thorough and lengthy research on their own. They will form their opinions based solely on the most easily accessible excerpts of information flashed in front of them. And unfortunately, when candidates choose to blur the lines between their personal beliefs vs their party’s ideology and what is in the best interests of all Canadians, then everyone loses.

Or when all you hear in the media is a full court press of evil Conservatives wanting to turn Canada into a Theocracy, then young people believe it.

Fortunately, that theory doesn't hold water when you realize the boogeyman Stephen Harper was in power for 9 years, (2 majorities) and had a Conservative Senate and yet not a single restriction in gay marriage, abortion or forced religion on anyone.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #459 on: October 14, 2019, 17:21:36 »
Their “plans” as a collective party don’t really matter in the eyes of some younger voters. Instead, what they see, hear and read from individual candidates is what forms their idea of what direction the party is likely to (try and) take the nation.



Ever insightful, miss Now :)

Mostly agree with you. No one researches enough anymore, if at all. We collectively read something, believe it, and launch an outraged tirade about it.

When it comes to young voters they seem extremely susceptible to group think and peer pressure these days. Seem to lack critical thinking. Reading it on Facebook or Twitter is a viable source.  I'm not sure how to articulate it very well but there's a zombie like behavior of following 'whats in'. Someone snorts a condom up their nose and guess what, it's trending. Video tape yourself getting out of a moving car and dancing on the road. Stuff like that. All kinds of stupid crap. It's like an overwhelming desire to be noticed or have some kind of impact or affect. The attention span seems to be pretty low and they move on to the next trending thing pretty quick.

The stuff being regurgitated as fact on reddit is crazy, but I guess mission accomplished for whoever is pushing the disinformation.

 
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #460 on: October 14, 2019, 17:31:06 »
Kind of like "Ew, get away...."

Trudeau dodges question of Liberal-NDP coalition while Scheer rallies against

https://globalnews.ca/news/6030766/liberal-ndp-coalition-election/


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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #461 on: October 14, 2019, 18:08:04 »
Kind of like "Ew, get away...."

Trudeau dodges question of Liberal-NDP coalition while Scheer rallies against

https://globalnews.ca/news/6030766/liberal-ndp-coalition-election/

I remember in 2008 when the discussion of a coalition came up. It’s something the Liberals will very much not want to be associated with. Granted my sample was a bunch of 19-22 troops overseas who couldn’t define ‘bicameral’ and whose ability to articulate their position was limited to putting their Velcro flags upside down on their uniform, but suffice to say it was a notion many were distinctly unhappy with.

Objectively it makes sense to the NDP to open the doors to the option. It makes sense to the LPC to keep those same doors firmly shut short of serious desperation.
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #462 on: October 14, 2019, 18:38:49 »


Ever insightful, miss Now :)

‘Not sure of the intent here, but as I rarely wade into politics threads as it is, in the future I’d appreciate no further “miss”, “mrs” or “ms” preceding any adjective, noun or verb you may think appropriate. I can’t seem to recall any similar-styled interactions with any political thread regulars in the recent past. (And I’m not about to go looking for them.) It ain’t cute.

Quote
...The stuff being regurgitated as fact on reddit is crazy, but I guess mission accomplished for whoever is pushing the disinformation.

Agreed—dis & misinformation alike.

...Stephen Harper was in power for 9 years, (2 majorities) and had a Conservative Senate and yet not a single restriction in gay marriage, abortion or forced religion on anyone.

True, although there’s still other reasons for certain groups to find fault with him...mainly the 13% reduction at one point from the defence budget at a time when we still needed those dollars. But that’s a different matter altogether...


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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #463 on: October 14, 2019, 19:15:27 »
‘Not sure of the intent here, but as I rarely wade into politics threads as it is, in the future I’d appreciate no further “miss”, “mrs” or “ms” preceding any adjective, noun or verb you may think appropriate. I can’t seem to recall any similar-styled interactions with any political thread regulars in the recent past. (And I’m not about to go looking for them.) It ain’t cute.

I thought your post was very insightful and level headed as I do most if not all of your posts. I can only apologize and assure you I'll stick to specifically to your username in future.


Quote from: PuckChaser

Fortunately, that theory doesn't hold water when you realize the boogeyman Stephen Harper was in power for 9 years, (2 majorities) and had a Conservative Senate and yet not a single restriction in gay marriage, abortion or forced religion on anyone.

Lots of fear mongering. Not a lot of substance to the crying and fears. The common response when I ask for examples or sources seems to be "**ck you nazi", probably while they wear Che Guevara T-shirts.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 19:22:58 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #464 on: October 14, 2019, 19:29:30 »
I thought your post was very insightful and level headed as I do most if not all of your posts. I can only apologize and assure you I'll stick to specifically to your username in future.

Thank you on all counts. I very much appreciate it.
”You don’t have a right to the cards you believe you should have been dealt. You have an obligation to play the hell out of the ones you’re holding. ”
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“The aim of argument, or of discussion should not be victory, but progress.”~Joseph Joubert

Offline Remius

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #465 on: October 14, 2019, 19:56:14 »
Lots of fear mongering. Not a lot of substance to the crying and fears. The common response when I ask for examples or sources seems to be "**ck you nazi", probably while they wear Che Guevara T-shirts.

I saw someone on social media bring up the LPC plan to ban certain firearms.  It turned into a gang up asking the guy why he needed automatic weapons.  No one brought up automatic weapons except the mob.  The guy was quite level headed and attempted to argue his point.  He was called a nazi for it.

On another social media platform there is a fake news story about Trudeau and a rumoured affair that has gotten to the point of stupidity.  When it was shown that there was zero evidence it turned into a tin foil party with accusations of coverups and the media being shut down and payoffs to the individual in question. 

This is what it’s gotten to.  Sad.

I voted on Friday.  I picked the guy I liked best at the riding level.

The only consolation for me is that I will likely get my wish and we will have a minority.  This hopefully will purge the two current leaders of the big two. 
Optio

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #466 on: October 14, 2019, 20:19:52 »
What did you like about him?
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Offline Remius

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #467 on: October 14, 2019, 21:09:05 »
Seems likeable. 

Is a good representative of the community.  Volunteers, is a former public servant and is now a teacher.  Has a family and seems to relate more to the community than the incumbent. 

I will be honest, my decision came down to the wire. 
Optio

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #468 on: October 14, 2019, 22:04:02 »
Quote from: Remius


I will be honest, my decision came down to the wire.

You didn't exactly come off that way, kind of seemed like your mind was set from the start. But I'm sure I'm wrong, glad you found someone you liked. Hopefully they don't support confiscation private property and don't make excuses for racist behavior etc..etc..
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #469 on: October 14, 2019, 22:28:05 »
Seems likeable. 

They say, "Politics is just show business for ugly people."

And in show business they say, "Likeability is 90% of the battle."  :)

Thankfully, in this country, no one has a right to tell you how to vote.


Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #470 on: October 14, 2019, 23:33:35 »
Seems likeable. 

Is a good representative of the community.  Volunteers, is a former public servant and is now a teacher.  Has a family and seems to relate more to the community than the incumbent. 

I will be honest, my decision came down to the wire.

Sooooo .... sounds like about a 100% better choice than any of the TEN (10) choices in my riding.

Seriously, ten people on a ballot does no one any favours. And none of them were superstars... or even average stars.
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #471 on: October 14, 2019, 23:42:34 »
I remember in 2008 when the discussion of a coalition came up. It’s something the Liberals will very much not want to be associated with. Granted my sample was a bunch of 19-22 troops overseas who couldn’t define ‘bicameral’ and whose ability to articulate their position was limited to putting their Velcro flags upside down on their uniform, but suffice to say it was a notion many were distinctly unhappy with.

Objectively it makes sense to the NDP to open the doors to the option. It makes sense to the LPC to keep those same doors firmly shut short of serious desperation.

For the libs, being open to it will be admitting they do not think they can win a majority. Now here is a scary thought what if a vote split happens on both sides (right and left) and we end with a 4 way hung parliament?
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Offline Brihard

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #472 on: October 15, 2019, 05:33:57 »
For the libs, being open to it will be admitting they do not think they can win a majority. Now here is a scary thought what if a vote split happens on both sides (right and left) and we end with a 4 way hung parliament?

Not too worried about it. Any vote splitting on the right will be in favour of the Bloc. Left will be mainly Liberals / NDP. These are familiar dynamics, it’s just been a few years. I don’t fear vote splitting nor minorities. Greens will pick up a handful, Bernier maybe one. If JWR retains her seat she would probably support the LPC in most matters.

Whoever ends up heading up the minority will just need to play a weird game that we’ve been lacking for quite some time, called ‘building concensus’. We could use a couple minority governments, it might humble up some knuckleheads.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #473 on: October 15, 2019, 08:38:50 »
Seriously, ten people on a ballot does no one any favours. And none of them were superstars... or even average stars.
My riding has five;  one is a black hole (or some kind of 'hole'), rather than even an average star.    ::)


This just registered:
Quote
What did you like about him?
Seems likeable.
:rofl:
Flashbacks to some blogger that 1 or 2 people cite routinely, who 'provides insight...because he's insightful.' 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 08:58:57 by Journeyman »

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #474 on: October 15, 2019, 08:56:46 »
Hopefully they don't support confiscation private property and don't make excuses for racist behavior etc..etc..

Regarding race,

Quote
Even before #brownface, the 2019 federal election was always about race

A sitting prime minister who just admitted to multiple incidents of brownface, despite touting Canada’s multiculturalism and diversity on the world stage.

A Conservative leader whose candidate base includes those who align with racist and homophobic perspectives, and whom he refuses to denounce or remove.

A National Observer survey into the make up of candidates across the five political parties found that, other than the NDP, the remaining parties are not representative of Canada’s visible minority population — black, Indigenous or people of colour — which Statistics Canada finds amounts to at least 25 per cent.

The NDP clears this bar, as around 32 per cent of the NDP’s 310 candidates are visible minorities, 20 of whom are Indigenous and 22 who are Black Canadians.

Here's how the rest of the parties fare, at present, based on the candidates that have been designated on the website of each party:

•Over 20 per cent of the Liberal Party’s 316 candidates are visible minorities (14 Indigenous, 5 Black).

•Almost 18 per cent of the Conservative Party’s 337 candidates are visible minorities. The Tories have the lowest number of Indigenous (4) and Black (2).

•The Green Party is lagging behind in this regard with approximately 12 percent of their 325 candidates being not white (8 Indigenous, 5 Black).

•Of the 317 candidates nominated by the People’s Party of Canada, some 14 percent appear to be Black, Indigenous or people of colour. (Note that some 30 PPC candidates have no online presence or visibility and couldn’t be included in this calculation).
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/09/19/analysis/even-brownface-2019-federal-election-was-always-about-race

And gender,

Quote
NDP, 49 percent women candidates

Green, 47 percent women/non-binary/trans candidates

Liberals, 39 percent women candidates

Conservatives, 32 percent women candidates
https://www.chatelaine.com/living/politics/women-candidates-canada-election-2019/