Author Topic: General Election: Oct 21, 2019  (Read 85282 times)

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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #350 on: October 06, 2019, 12:00:50 »
True, but it's funny how so many people who would have mocked him as a Liberal hack/operator/bag man a week ago are happy to offer this up as evidence of sorts when it's about someone they hate even more.
Kinsella is a Chretien Liberal. He has made it clear that he has absolutely clear that he has no time for Trudeau or any of his crew. He believes the Liberals need to lose this election to get rid of the Trudeau crowd from the Party. To his core, I think he is still a Liberal, even if the current party leadership and him are not on speaking terms (to put it mildly).

He may not be wrong. Even a Liberal minority would likely bring about a Conservative leadership review. I doubt they would make the same mistake, twice, and the Liberals are likely to face very effective opposition in 6-12 months.

Plus, the Liberals have gone out of their way to make enemies of 6 provincial premiers (the Conservative ones, especially Ontario). Good luck getting any cooperation out of them. Good luck keeping 650 first nations on side. Good luck if separatism breaks out into the mainstream in Alberta and Saskatchewan and good luck if the economy even catches a whiff of a cold.


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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #351 on: October 06, 2019, 12:52:04 »
In fairness to Mr Scheer, I don't think the Conservative Party ever expected this election to be so close. When he was selected as leader, I felt that he was there to "mind the shop" until the next leader could be selected in about six years, when the country was well and truly tired of the Liberals. A nice guy who could keep the various factions of the party together until someone more dynamic was made available.
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Offline Remius

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #352 on: October 06, 2019, 12:59:12 »
In fairness to Mr Scheer, I don't think the Conservative Party ever expected this election to be so close. When he was selected as leader, I felt that he was there to "mind the shop" until the next leader could be selected in about six years, when the country was well and truly tired of the Liberals. A nice guy who could keep the various factions of the party together until someone more dynamic was made available.

That is actually very well said and a point of view I had not considered. 
Optio

Offline Bread Guy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #353 on: October 06, 2019, 13:05:13 »
Kinsella is a Chretien Liberal. He has made it clear that he has absolutely clear that he has no time for Trudeau or any of his crew. He believes the Liberals need to lose this election to get rid of the Trudeau crowd from the Party. To his core, I think he is still a Liberal, even if the current party leadership and him are not on speaking terms (to put it mildly).
Just like some say today's Conservatives aren't quite like the "old version" Conservatives - very good point.  And he's likely not the only Team Red member who's less than enamoured of the leadership.

Still, a lot of people I see re-tweeting him don't have your nuanced take on his shade of Red.
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Offline Journeyman

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #354 on: October 06, 2019, 13:25:33 »
Still, a lot of people I see re-tweeting him don't have your nuanced take on his shade of Red.
Quite a few political discussions are all about nuance...… and facts.   ;D

Offline Bread Guy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #355 on: October 06, 2019, 13:30:24 »
Quite a few political discussions and memes are all about nuance...… and facts.   ;D
FTFY  ;D
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Offline AbdullahD

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #356 on: October 06, 2019, 14:03:53 »
In fairness to Mr Scheer, I don't think the Conservative Party ever expected this election to be so close. When he was selected as leader, I felt that he was there to "mind the shop" until the next leader could be selected in about six years, when the country was well and truly tired of the Liberals. A nice guy who could keep the various factions of the party together until someone more dynamic was made available.

I have been reflecting on this a bit. Maybe, if they (conservatives) do get elected.. he may show qualities that could enchant those who may not usually vote conservative.

Maybe we all want a more dynamic fellow, but a "blah" candidate is what we need.. I think scheer is an intelligent fellow.. just how intelligent remains to be seen.

If he gets elected, I hope he is on genius level and garners more support over his term. Maybe a minority government with him as leader will be best.. I would prefer a farther right government then he seems to be.. but most Canadian's do not want that. Maybe a relaxed minority, that shows Canadians that are against the right that we are not evil.. could be good.

But this is all a pipe dream, sadly.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #357 on: October 06, 2019, 15:17:38 »
A few possible scenarios.

1. A minority CPC victory could wind up playing out like Joe Clark's short-lived government.  CPC victory prompts LPC to find a better leader; they find one; Scheer governs uninspiringly; CPC gets booted after a short run and LPC is back.

2. LPC wins a majority.  Trudeau is harder to replace, but Scheer is toast.  CPC has an opportunity to become competitive.

3. LPC wins a minority.  Knives eventually come out for Trudeau.
3a.  Scheer is able to stagger on; CPC continues to be weak; new LPC leader leads to victory.
3b.  Scheer accepts that he ain't got it; CPC has an opportunity to become competitive.

My preferred case is 1a, which isn't on the list because I doubt Scheer has the backbone for it: CPC minority; Scheer accepts that he is weak because he couldn't defeat such a flawed LPC government and resigns early on.

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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #358 on: October 06, 2019, 15:27:14 »
Re any of the possible case, and especially  the unstated 1a, I feel that individuals who strive for party leadership, and then becoming prime minister, do not suffer from an excess of modesty and self-doubt. If Scheer was to win the prize of his political life, he would be unlikely to surrender it, so that a better person could assume the mantle of leadership.

Is a party revolt in the cards, especially after having won the race? It seems unlikely. We'll see.

Offline Remius

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #359 on: October 06, 2019, 15:29:53 »
Any minority won’t last.

Whoever takes over from that will likely get 4 years.

Think about what scenario you would prefer.
Optio

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #360 on: October 06, 2019, 17:56:27 »
Not sure if everyone knows this already but advanced polls are open.  Just saying this because several people at work had no idea they could vote now. When my wife and I voted there was only one other person voting at the time so we were in and out in about 5 minutes.


Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #361 on: October 06, 2019, 18:22:30 »

Trudeau won't remove Liberal candidate for racist, sexist social-media posts
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/elections/trudeau-wont-remove-liberal-candidate-for-racist-sexist-social-media-posts/ar-AAImSNV

Quote
Trudeau sidestepped a question about whether he feels limited in his ability to censure candidates for past racist behaviours after photos and a video emerged in the first week of the campaign showing the Liberal leader wearing blackface makeup.

Good news for Liberal candidates.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #362 on: October 06, 2019, 18:32:34 »
A few possible scenarios.

1. A minority CPC victory could wind up playing out like Joe Clark's short-lived government.  CPC victory prompts LPC to find a better leader; they find one; Scheer governs uninspiringly; CPC gets booted after a short run and LPC is back.

2. LPC wins a majority.  Trudeau is harder to replace, but Scheer is toast.  CPC has an opportunity to become competitive.

3. LPC wins a minority.  Knives eventually come out for Trudeau.
3a.  Scheer is able to stagger on; CPC continues to be weak; new LPC leader leads to victory.
3b.  Scheer accepts that he ain't got it; CPC has an opportunity to become competitive.

My preferred case is 1a, which isn't on the list because I doubt Scheer has the backbone for it: CPC minority; Scheer accepts that he is weak because he couldn't defeat such a flawed LPC government and resigns early on.

... you forgot one:

4. Concurrently, the Left remains hopelessly divided between the 'Cray Cray Greens' (CCG) and the Under-performing Lighweight Neo-NDP (ULNNDP) giving the other two a chance to romp in the park without fear of being taken on by a formerly impressive and credible political alternative at the other end of the spectrum.
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Offline ballz

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #363 on: October 06, 2019, 18:38:20 »
I can't believe I'm cheering for the Bloc... the enemy of my enemy is my friend I guess... but it looks like the Bloc might be the force that saves the rest of Canada from a Liberal majority despite our collective stupidity.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 19:02:09 by ballz »
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #364 on: October 06, 2019, 18:50:42 »
I’m being cynical but maybe we could persuade a few more “pretty boys” to run . This last one is a disaster.
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Offline AbdullahD

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #365 on: October 06, 2019, 19:01:56 »
Not sure if everyone knows this already but advanced polls are open.  Just saying this because several people at work had no idea they could vote now. When my wife and I voted there was only one other person voting at the time so we were in and out in about 5 minutes.

It will be a two hour drive their and back. But doing it tomorrow, going to book off from work now. Totally forgot about that myself.

Abdullah

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #366 on: October 07, 2019, 08:11:46 »
If he gets elected, I hope he is on genius level...
Not just genius, but "stable genius."TM   :pop:

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #367 on: October 07, 2019, 11:40:17 »
Not sure if everyone knows this already but advanced polls are open.  Just saying this because several people at work had no idea they could vote now. When my wife and I voted there was only one other person voting at the time so we were in and out in about 5 minutes.

Semantics (ways to vote).  While any eligible elector can vote using the "special ballot process" at any Elections Canada office before 1800 hrs 16 October or at one of over 115 campuses between October 5 to October 9, "Advance Polls" (a different process) will only be open on 11, 12, 13 and 14 October.  On those days voters will have to go to their assigned advance polling place.

Or those voting as CF electors, just go where and when they tell you.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 11:42:49 by Blackadder1916 »
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #368 on: October 07, 2019, 17:51:58 »
In fairness to Mr Scheer, I don't think the Conservative Party ever expected this election to be so close. When he was selected as leader, I felt that he was there to "mind the shop" until the next leader could be selected in about six years, when the country was well and truly tired of the Liberals. A nice guy who could keep the various factions of the party together until someone more dynamic was made available.

Agreed and I have said this many times.  But I think the same can be said for Libs.  Trudeau was expected to be the return of the Sun King.  Easily a 2 term PM, perhaps more ? 

I am not so sure that the Federal Liberal high brass expected JT to be so divisive or such a liability every time he opens his mouth. 

In short I don't think any of the 2 major parties really expect we would be where we are now.  A very very divisive and tight race.
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #369 on: October 07, 2019, 17:54:28 »
One has shown he can't meet high expectations. The other has the chance to show he can exceed low ones.
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Offline BurnDoctor

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #370 on: October 07, 2019, 17:59:43 »
One has shown he can't meet high expectations. The other has the chance to show he can exceed low ones.

Very well said.

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #371 on: October 07, 2019, 20:10:29 »
Watching this debate right now I see that Scheer does a better job on attacking Trudeau instead of giving good answers.  I would rather him say what his party would do if elected and let the voter decide if leader's policy is good or not.  His constant attacks are part of what got me not to vote for the Cons.


Offline dapaterson

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #372 on: October 07, 2019, 20:23:30 »
My impression is that Trudeau is running against Harper, and Scheer is running against Trudeau but not running for himself & his party.

Singh made a comment about it earlier tonight - something along the lines of "You're spending all your time on why people shouldn't vote for the other guy, instead of giving them reasons why they should vote for you".
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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #373 on: October 07, 2019, 20:41:15 »
I've tried twice now to watch this debate. Ugh its just so depressing that this is our choice for leadership.

And WTF is the Bloc doing on a national debate? Even if they seem to have chance of having the balance of power they still have zero intentions of thinking about the wants and needs of all Canadians.


Offline Baden Guy

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Re: General Election: Oct 21, 2019
« Reply #374 on: October 07, 2019, 20:52:44 »
I'm a political geek and I couldn't stand watching this "debate."  :boring:
I 'll see how the "after party" summary goes.