Author Topic: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019  (Read 16618 times)

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Offline VinceW

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #150 on: October 25, 2019, 15:37:47 »
There is a difference between being in support  of something and having something forced upon you.

No province wants the feds showing up "punishing" them to get something done.

I doubt the courts would agree with that being informed consent either.

If there was a government who’s members weren’t determined to stop the pipeline not much of this would be happening.
"You have two choices in life,be wise or be brave,always choose to be brave"

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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #151 on: October 25, 2019, 15:40:52 »
Albertans will vote for the Bloc before letting her party back in again.

Just don’t forget your own self-inflicted damage when you’re busy railing against Ontario and Quebec.

Offline Altair

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #152 on: October 25, 2019, 15:50:08 »
If there was a government who’s members weren’t determined to stop the pipeline not much of this would be happening.
I have a buddy who used to work up in fort mac. Made his money before the crash,  back east now.

Told me the liberals should let TMX die. I asked him why,  and he said the NDP and Greens would eat him alive over buying it,  and not a single Albertan would give him a ounce of credit,  so politically it would make more sense.

He was right.
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Online Brad Sallows

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #153 on: October 25, 2019, 17:02:29 »
>Where are you getting your numbers from? 

With respect to BC, I assumed he meant provincially.  But that's difficult to gauge: polling results are likely to be inflected during periods of high fuel prices.
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Offline Baz

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #154 on: October 25, 2019, 18:24:03 »
...environmental loonies that make the most noise...

You've used that term, loonies, twice now.  Exactly who are you referring to?  I consider myself a moderate environmentalist, understand the real science and believe we have to do something, but also know we have to make measured steps to avoid social and economic turmoil, and have taken small steps like driving a hybrid.  Am I a loonie?

Understanding the history of the human species, I'm more concerned about the state of mind of someone who is threatening people with violence for some perceived threat to their independence, and who can't seem to make or understand a coherent logical argument.

Offline VinceW

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #155 on: October 25, 2019, 19:28:03 »
You've used that term, loonies, twice now.  Exactly who are you referring to?  I consider myself a moderate environmentalist, understand the real science and believe we have to do something, but also know we have to make measured steps to avoid social and economic turmoil, and have taken small steps like driving a hybrid.  Am I a loonie?

Understanding the history of the human species, I'm more concerned about the state of mind of someone who is threatening people with violence for some perceived threat to their independence, and who can't seem to make or understand a coherent logical argument.

People who commit a criminal act against me deserve a throat punch and or something else.

Climate scientists have been as capable to predict what the climate will do in the future as much as a late night psychic can there’s no proof yet that CO2 raises temperatures the earth warms up first then CO2 rises it doesn’t work the other way around they still don’t know but the climate scientists have been politicalized to the point where if someone like other scientists don’t agree with the CO2 warming narrative they’re dismissed as being anti science or they support big oil.
The most fanatical climate justice warriors are also using the climate change scare to get support for socialist economic policies the far Left loons make up all those parties and movements.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 19:33:27 by VinceW »
"You have two choices in life,be wise or be brave,always choose to be brave"

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Offline Baz

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #156 on: October 25, 2019, 19:37:43 »
I've spent most of my adult life "standing on guard" for this Country so when people attack it I also take it seriously.

Oh gee, internet memes... that's what I'll believe over talking to actual statistical meteorologists at Environment Canada who have spent their entire professional life getting good at what they do.  And they are politicised simply because people don't understand it and/or don't agree with them.

But I got it, I'm loonie... this conversation is useless ... I'm out.

Offline garb811

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #157 on: October 25, 2019, 20:00:42 »
People who commit a criminal act against me deserve a throat punch and or something else.

Climate scientists have been as capable to predict what the climate will do in the future as much as a late night psychic can there’s no proof yet that CO2 raises temperatures the earth warms up first then CO2 rises it doesn’t work the other way around they still don’t know but the climate scientists have been politicalized to the point where if someone like other scientists don’t agree with the CO2 warming narrative they’re dismissed as being anti science or they support big oil.
The most fanatical climate justice warriors are also using the climate change scare to get support for socialist economic policies the far Left loons make up all those parties and movements.

As the site owner has stated::
Quote
I am certain some folks will have issue with this, and see it as stifling discussion, or silencing/preferring one side. I can assure you it is neither of those, but it is an attempt to further clean up the reputation of the site and raise the bar for discussion. Yes, this is a fairly heavy-handed action, but with the increasingly worrisome tone of discussion here, we believe it is appropriate in order to get things back on track.

There are plenty of other sites where the most inventive personal attack wins the argument.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #158 on: October 25, 2019, 21:24:00 »
As the site owner has stated::Advocating violence as a means to solve a Canadian political problem will not be tolerated. Offering it to another member, even by insinuation, will earn an immediate ban.

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Thanks for that. You have saved my eyes from rolling out of my head.
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #159 on: October 26, 2019, 19:38:15 »
Meanwhile, a good reminder that 'Wexit' doesn't stop at the Rockies:

'Wexit' talk doesn't stop at Alberta's border with Conservative surge in B.C.

While much has been made of the Conservative Party's sweep of Saskatchewan and most of Alberta in Monday's night election, the blue wave didn't stop at the Rockies.
 
Instead, it continued into British Columbia's Interior and northeast, parts of the province where support for Conservative candidates ranged from 45.1 per cent in Kootenay-Columbia in the south to a full 69.9 per cent in Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies in the north.
 
Although it's normal for Conservatives to win in these regions, the party also picked up tens of thousands of new votes along the B.C.-Alberta border compared to its performance in 2015.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/british-columbia-conservatives-wexit-1.5335966?cmp=newsletter-news-digests-canada-and-world-evening
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline CloudCover

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #160 on: October 28, 2019, 01:06:49 »
“ Instead, it continued into British Columbia's Interior and northeast, parts of the province where support for Conservative candidates ranged from 45.1 per cent in Kootenay-Columbia in the south to a full 69.9 per cent in Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies in the north.”

This is real here in central B.C.  The CPC candidate here won by a healthy lead and he barely campaigned.
It’s a little worrying because the discussions are not about how to make Canada whole again. There is such a disconnect between here and Vancouver/Victoria, it’s all about planning for a  new entity that is not under the thumb of those cities. There is also a very vile opinion of Ottawa, Toronto and Quebec that is made worse with a shockingly sharp and outright projection of hatred for JT.  We are still new to BC, but it’s certainly obvious that something very serious is afoot and we just hope it calms down.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #161 on: October 28, 2019, 08:29:30 »
There is such a disconnect between here and Vancouver/Victoria, it’s all about planning for a  new entity that is not under the thumb of those cities. There is also a very vile opinion of Ottawa, Toronto and Quebec

Sounds like the much discussed urban versus rural divide.

Ottawa is where the political power is.

The Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area ( GTHA ) supersedes the province of Ontario as the second largest region by population. Second only to the province of Quebec.

I'll repost this for anyone concerned with their voting power ( or lack of ) compared to other Canadians,

Quote
Oct. 13, 2019

One person, one vote? In Canada, it’s not even close
https://www.thestar.com/politics/2019/10/13/one-person-one-vote-in-canada-its-not-even-close.html
Some votes are going to be substantially more powerful than others, especially those cast in the most remote rural ridings. And if you live in a city — especially one growing as rapidly as Greater Toronto — your vote is more likely to register as less than equal.

In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #162 on: October 28, 2019, 09:56:05 »
“ Instead, it continued into British Columbia's Interior and northeast, parts of the province where support for Conservative candidates ranged from 45.1 per cent in Kootenay-Columbia in the south to a full 69.9 per cent in Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies in the north.”

This is real here in central B.C.  The CPC candidate here won by a healthy lead and he barely campaigned.
It’s a little worrying because the discussions are not about how to make Canada whole again. There is such a disconnect between here and Vancouver/Victoria, it’s all about planning for a  new entity that is not under the thumb of those cities. There is also a very vile opinion of Ottawa, Toronto and Quebec that is made worse with a shockingly sharp and outright projection of hatred for JT.  We are still new to BC, but it’s certainly obvious that something very serious is afoot and we just hope it calms down.

Outside of Greater Vancouver and Vancouver Island, there are almost no 'Provincial Conservative' (i.e. BC Liberal Party) MLAs either.

Double word score!
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline CloudCover

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #163 on: October 30, 2019, 00:09:27 »
I did not know that! The two around here* are BC Liberals ( so Conservatives?) and both took near on 50% of the vote in 2017.

* Okanagan and Monashee, North Okanagan.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 00:16:34 by Cloud Cover »
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Offline RangerRay

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #164 on: October 30, 2019, 21:11:27 »
Outside of Greater Vancouver and Vancouver Island, there are almost no 'Provincial Conservative' (i.e. BC Liberal Party) MLAs either.

Double word score!

Me thinks you meant “Outside the Interior...” 😉
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #165 on: October 30, 2019, 22:31:48 »
Me thinks you meant “Outside the Interior...” 😉

Ummm... yes, of course!
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline Bread Guy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #166 on: November 20, 2019, 14:23:52 »
A tidbit from the new cabinet being sworn in today ...
Quote
... Jim Carr, who was diagnosed with a form of blood cancer after the Oct. 21 vote, was named as Trudeau’s new representative to the Prairies. The Winnipeg South Centre MP previously served as the international trade minister and likely would have been named to cabinet if not for his health issues ...
A bit more ...
Quote
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau carved out a new role in his government today designed to ensure voices on the Prairies are heard in Ottawa.

Former cabinet minister Jim Carr, who represents a Winnipeg riding, has been named as Trudeau’s “special representative” for Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba.

The move follows the Liberals’ complete shutout in two of those three provinces in last month’s election, raising questions about how concerns there would be championed around the cabinet table.

Carr formerly served as both natural resources minister and minister for international trade diversification, two portfolios exceptionally top of mind in the Prairies given ongoing struggles in the energy sector and trade challenges.

Shortly after the election he was diagnosed with a form of blood cancer, raising questions about his ability to keep playing a major role in Trudeau’s cabinet ...
More @ links
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #167 on: November 21, 2019, 12:05:03 »
Outside of Greater Vancouver and Vancouver Island, there are almost no 'Provincial Conservative' (i.e. BC Liberal Party) MLAs either.

Double word score!

while I worked on the CPC campaign here in North Van, I had serious doubts about the candidate winning, I was right, with a 70% voter turnout the Lib candidate won easily. Saxton has to much baggage from the Harper era and failed to act with the concerns of the people within his riding, notably the Kits base fiasco which likely cost them both seats on the Northshore.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #168 on: November 22, 2019, 10:24:54 »
This hour has 22 minutes take on the matter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHkHGDLBYw0

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #169 on: November 22, 2019, 11:38:30 »
Meanwhile, 'Western Alienation' meets the realities of a national/global energy supply and demand challenge:

"The Canadian oil and gas industry will need more pipeline capacity than what is currently under development to meet even its most modest growth projections, but attitudes toward new pipelines are shifting and the energy industry needs to reposition itself to keep pace."

https://business.financialpost.com/commodities/energy/tmx-keystone-xl-pipelines-not-enough-for-canadian-oil-as-critics-push-back-in-name-of-climate-change
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #170 on: November 22, 2019, 12:26:48 »
In the "Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" department, Ontario and Quebec are facing critical shortages of propane due to the CN rail strike.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/teamsters-cdn-strike-1.5369359

If only there were some other system to move gases and liquids across the country, you know, like a pipeline...
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Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #171 on: November 22, 2019, 13:16:06 »
In the "Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" department, Ontario and Quebec are facing critical shortages of propane due to the CN rail strike.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/teamsters-cdn-strike-1.5369359

If only there were some other system to move gases and liquids across the country, you know, like a pipeline...

It is not due to the strike, it is due to CN's decision to only run intermodal trains during the strike. There is far more then enough managers to service the propane needs of quebec, but the intermodal trains make more money.

I can break the numbers down if needed, MOW managers, trainmasters and many other managers are all qualified conductors or engineman. Right now in smithers they can send a train every 4 hrs with local managers. A train could easily be 200 cars, we also deal with propane up here and only take one propane train a day (if that).

It is my opinion and the opinion of the tcrc that CN is not servicing Quebec and the farmers  in order to skew the optics and make the striking employees look bad.

Abdullah

Disclaimer I am a TCRC Conductor for CN and I  am on strike.

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #172 on: November 22, 2019, 13:56:18 »
In the "Let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" department, Ontario and Quebec are facing critical shortages of propane due to the CN rail strike.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/teamsters-cdn-strike-1.5369359

If only there were some other system to move gases and liquids across the country, you know, like a pipeline...

You know, like the Enbridge pipeline . . .

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/energy-sources-distribution/refining-sector-canada/propane-market-review-final-report/15927#midstreamtranspo
Quote
Midstream Transportation of Propane

3.17    The two most common means for transporting propane long distances from storage facilities or producers to downstream distributors are pipeline and rail.  Transporting long distances via truck is often uneconomic.Footnote 21  .

3.18    Currently, one major pipeline system supplies propane from western Canada to central Canada: the Enbridge System.Footnote 22 The system is primarily used to transport crude oil, but two of its lines also transport refined petroleum products and a propane-plus mixFootnote 23 from Fort Saskatchewan, Alberta to Sarnia, Ontario, where the mix is fractionated into propane, butane and condensate:
•Line 1 has a capacity of 37,600 cubic meters per day (236,500 barrels per day) and runs from Fort Saskatchewan to Superior, Wisconsin.  It transports batchesFootnote 24 of natural gas liquids, refined petroleum products, and light synthetic crude oil.
•Line 5 has a capacity of 78,100 cubic metres per day (491,200 barrels per day) and runs from Superior to Sarnia. It transports batches of natural gas liquids, as well as various types of crude oil.

3.19    From 2006 to March 2014, another pipeline system also supplied propane from western Canada to central Canada.Footnote 25 Kinder Morgan’s Cochin pipeline had a 7,950 cubic metres per day (50,000 barrels per day) operating capacity and delivered propane from western Canada primarily to markets in the U.S. Midwest. Cochin also delivered small volumes of propane to Windsor, Ontario and later to Sarnia via the Eastern Delivery System pipeline (see Figure 3.4). The capacity and utilization of the Cochin pipeline was significantly less than that of the Enbridge System and the vast majority of NGL (including propane) supplied to central Canada via pipeline was through the Enbridge System. 

3.20    Historically, the Cochin pipeline operated below capacity. Given declining propane production and exports from western Canada, and growing demand for condensate in the oil sands, Kinder Morgan applied to the NEB in 2012 for approval to reverse the section of pipeline west of Kankakee County, Illinois to allow for condensate imports into Alberta. The NEB approved this application in June 2013, with conditions.Footnote 26 The Cochin pipeline stopped receiving propane at the end of March 2014 and Kinder Morgan is undertaking the physical work associated with the reversal.

3.21    The Cochin Reversal Project also required approval in the U.S. It received a presidential permit from the U.S. State Department to proceed with the project in November 2013.Footnote 27

3.22    In order for propane to be moved by rail, rail car filling and unloading infrastructure (commonly called “racks” or “terminals”) is constructed at both the origin and the destination.  Facilities located at an originating production plant are generally owned by upstream firms, while facilities at the destination are generally owned by a downstream firm.

3.23    Rail transit of propane can encounter significant disruptions during winter months.  Frozen signals can delay progress and cause congestion.  Cold weather can also cause train engine issues, and significant snowfalls can cause delays while tracks are cleared.  Additionally, it has been reported that one significant rail line experiences air pressure issues when the weather is cold and, as a result, is forced to run shorter trains.Footnote 28 This can result in a shortage of engines, which further reduces the effective capacity of rail.

3.24    During the winter peak home heating season, propane rail transportation may operate at, or near, full capacity. In this situation, if a shipment is not transported on its scheduled day, it can be cancelled if there is no extra capacity on the following day.  When this happens, downstream firms may not obtain their contracted or planned supply.


And what does the Alberta Energy Regulator say about propane.
https://www.aer.ca/providing-information/data-and-reports/statistical-reports/propane-supply-demand
Quote
The continued focus by industry on producing natural gas in liquids-rich  areas has resulted in an oversupply of propane in the Alberta market. This was compounded in 2014 when Kinder Morgan Canada Inc.’s Cochin pipeline, which previously exported Alberta propane to markets such as the U.S. Midwest, was reversed, leaving Alberta with limited market access. However, rail has been used to maintain access to traditional markets and beyond.

As a result of the oversupply and subsequent low prices, producers are opting to leave propane as part of a natural gas liquid (NGL) mix for removal from Alberta. Mixes containing propane and butane are referred to as liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), which is used primarily as fuel for heating and cooking appliances and for vehicles. These mixes can be transported through pipelines to other markets. For example, NGL mixes are transported through Enbridge Inc.’s Line 5, which is connected to the Enbridge Mainline pipeline system originating in Edmonton, Alberta, and terminating in Sarnia, Ontario. Upon delivery, propane is fractionated out of the mixes for commercial use.


Not only does the "raw" product have to be transported across the country, it has to be processed before it can be distributed to customers and the processing for that (which seemingly has the capacity to accommodate all Eastern Canada's requirement) is in Sarnia.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #173 on: November 22, 2019, 14:25:35 »
I am a TCRC Conductor for CN and I  am on strike.

I love the CNR and VIA Rail. Good luck, Abdullah.

In any war, there are two tremendous tasks. That of the combat troops is to fight the enemy. That of the supply troops is to furnish all the material to insure victory. The faster and farther the combat troops advance against the foe, the greater becomes the battle of supply. EISENHOWER

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Western Alienation - Split from General Election 2019
« Reply #174 on: November 22, 2019, 14:32:21 »
I love the CNR and VIA Rail. Good luck, Abdullah.

Ditto. I've had a teeny, tiny look into that part of our supply chain and it's definitely a tough row to hoe.
“To stand on the firing parapet and expose yourself to danger; to stand and fight a thousand miles from home when you're all alone and outnumbered and probably beaten; to spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary.”
— Jerry Pournelle —