Author Topic: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion  (Read 49488 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« on: March 24, 2020, 00:30:01 »
Liberals retreat on sweeping bill to allow them to tax and spend without Parliament’s approval

Quote
The Liberal government announced late Monday that it has agreed to change draft legislation that proposed to grant itself wide-reaching new powers to tax and spend without parliamentary approval until Dec. 31, 2021, through an emergency spending bill.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-emergency-spending-bill-gives-cabinet-sweeping-powers-to-tax-and-spend/

Nice try Liberals.



Moved: Post better suited to politics than the covid thread.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 16:49:26 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline CBH99

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2020, 04:01:07 »
Liberals apologize after hiding $183K in contracts awarded to environmental group

The Liberal government has been forced to apologize after coming clean about concealing nearly $200,000 in contracts awarded to an environmental group.

https://torontosun.com/news/national/liberals-apologize-after-hiding-183k-in-contracts-awarded-to-environmental-group#click=https://t.co/p0EhvQCiOd


Oh Seamus lol

“deeply sorry”


That's it.  Screw it.  I'm going back to school or taking some courses in small business, and I'm going to learn me these skills of how to get government grants.

$25,000 a pop for consultations?  $1.7 million in grants?


Going to spend my isolation time researching these processes & requirements.  Hopefully the bill is on me for the next Army.ca Meet & Greet   :)
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2020, 09:34:26 »
 ;D
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 11:27:40 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2020, 11:57:16 »
Unbelievable but not surprising that the Liberals would try to sneak this language in AFTER negotiating the content of the bill with the Opposition. It was never going to pass, they need unanimous House consent to pass it, but it was a trial balloon to see if they could avoid confidence motions for well after COVID-19 is not an issue anymore. Can you imagine the literal implosion of Twitter if Harper had tried to do this during the 2008 Recession?

Offline CloudCover

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2020, 12:35:40 »
This is a must read. Scott Reid, Ontario Conservative MP, gives his reasons for his disobedience of  party whip and attending Parliament today to oppose government planned legislation. Read with an open mind. https://scottreid.ca/why-i-am-in-the-house-today/
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 13:08:38 »
I guess "Just watch me." has more than one application.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 13:13:36 »
This is a must read. Scott Reid, Ontario Conservative MP, gives his reasons for his disobedience of  party whip and attending Parliament today to oppose government planned legislation. Read with an open mind. https://scottreid.ca/why-i-am-in-the-house-today/

That was an amazing read thanks for posting that.

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Offline garb811

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2020, 15:18:42 »
For those on the board who are advocating for the "no restrictions" approach to responding, we just might see that theory in action South of the border...

Trump says he wants the U.S. 'opened up and just raring to go by Easter'
Quote
U.S. President Donald Trump said Tuesday he wants the nation "opened up and just raring to go by Easter," a date just more than two weeks away that few health experts believe will be sufficient in containing the spread of coronavirus.

Speaking during a Fox News town hall, Trump reiterated he was eager to see the nation return to normal, even as doctors warn the nation will see a massive spike in cases if Americans return to crowded workplaces or events.

"I give it two weeks," Trump said earlier in the town hall, suggesting he was ready to phase out his 15-day self-isolating guidelines when they expire. "I guess by Monday or Tuesday, it's about two weeks. We will assess at that time and give it more time if we need a little more time. We have to open this country up."
...
More at link
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 15:27:31 by garb811 »
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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 15:34:28 »
For those on the board who are advocating for the "no restrictions" approach to responding, we just might see that theory in action South of the boarder...

Hopefully, their politicians and media personalities will heed the advice of medical experts.

Or, the lesson Toronto had to learn the hard way during SARS 2.

Offline Altair

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2020, 15:41:11 »
So the USA,  at the executive level, is prepared to sacrifice up to 2.5 percent of their population,  8 million people, for the sake of their econony,  the same executive that says they are pro life.

Ironic really.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2020, 16:30:13 by BeyondTheNow »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 15:46:56 »
So the USA,  at the executive level, is prepared to sacrifice up to 2.5 percent of their population,  8 million people, for the sake of their econony,  the same executive that says they are pro life.

Ironic really.

The same equation is done with Vaccines, no matter how beneficial, a small percentage will react badly to them. That all good as long as you and your loved one are not in that small percentage, then it's everything. Once you get to the Public Health Level, it's no longer a issue about the individual, but about the population as a whole. My sister inlaw is at that level in the Malaysian government and I seen it in ours. If the economy tanks for to long, then you see a spike in deaths from other causes. Sometimes there is no win, only a lesser bad.

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2020, 15:50:29 »
... Why is Italy being so hard hit compared to other countries in the region?    :dunno:

Italy has a large Chinese population and I expect, that considering the time of year (Chinese New Year), there was a fair bit of travel back to China and then back again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_people_in_Italy

 :cheers:
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Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2020, 15:51:28 »
Well not to be alarmist but when this is all done an do economy starts to recover I predict that the government will be forced to make cuts like it or not.  It might start with class B cuts, hiring freezes and cutting students and contractors.  It may go deeper after that.  Reserve units and regular force battalions may have to merge etc etc. 

Teachers might be cut after all provincially. 


But who knows.

One thing is for certain, expect nurses and doctors to get hired for a while.

Don't worry, our debt will once this is all over be too large to ever seek to control again. I suspect the solution shall just to be to run up the debt for a couple more decades of excess, followed by defaulting when we finally can no longer service it.

Offline Altair

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2020, 15:55:41 »
The same equation is done with Vaccines, no matter how beneficial, a small percentage will react badly to them. That all good as long as you and your loved one are not in that small percentage, then it's everything. Once you get to the Public Health Level, it's no longer a issue about the individual, but about the population as a whole. My sister inlaw is at that level in the Malaysian government and I seen it in ours. If the economy tanks for to long, then you see a spike in deaths from other causes. Sometimes there is no win, only a lesser bad.
Yes,  of course.

The only problem here is that with that 2.5 percent death rate from the virus itself,  there is the collapse of the health care system.

Every car crash victim, cardiac arrest, medical complication, gun shot victim,  that can no longer be treated because a covid 19 patient is taking up medical staff and ventilators,  staff that are getting sick themselves and ventilators that the west doesn't have.

The danger lies more in the collapse of health care system than the virus itself.
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Offline stellarpanther

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2020, 15:58:29 »
For those on the board who are advocating for the "no restrictions" approach to responding, we just might see that theory in action South of the border...

Trump says he wants the U.S. 'opened up and just raring to go by Easter'

It would be nice but I haven't heard many say its reasonable, the peak in New York isn't expected for 2-3 more weeks.  It's pipe dream in my opinion.

Offline Altair

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2020, 16:01:54 »
Don't worry, our debt will once this is all over be too large to ever seek to control again. I suspect the solution shall just to be to run up the debt for a couple more decades of excess, followed by defaulting when we finally can no longer service it.
If Canada and the west(US about to dump 2 trillion in stimulus) could survive the spending that went along with 6 years it took to defeat Hitler,  then they can survive a year of this
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Offline BeyondTheNow

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2020, 16:25:27 »
Folks,

As was inevitable, there’s simply too many tangents to discuss inclusive of “All things Covid.”

I’m going to start this thread for the sole purpose of discussing heavily politically-leaning aspects of the Covid crisis.

Please continue with covid-related political comments in this thread.

Thank you,
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2020, 16:31:53 »
>Trump says he wants the U.S. 'opened up and just raring to go by Easter'

The power to re-open stuff resides with those who closed stuff, mostly with the states and municipalities.  But everyone does need to start thinking about how and when to move in that direction - shutdowns can't be used to buy an indefinite amount of time, and there is no time to simply relax and not plan ahead.  A couple of articles I read suggested that each day, planners need to look at where they expect to be in 3 weeks.

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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2020, 16:34:58 »
For those on the board who are advocating for the "no restrictions" approach to responding, we just might see that theory in action South of the border...

Trump says he wants the U.S. 'opened up and just raring to go by Easter'

Unsurprisingly, most say it's a bad idea:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/president-trump-pushes-to-reopen-u-s-economy-state-governors-push-back-idUSKBN21B1EC
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Offline Altair

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2020, 16:40:19 »
>Trump says he wants the U.S. 'opened up and just raring to go by Easter'

The power to re-open stuff resides with those who closed stuff, mostly with the states and municipalities.  But everyone does need to start thinking about how and when to move in that direction - shutdowns can't be used to buy an indefinite amount of time, and there is no time to simply relax and not plan ahead.  A couple of articles I read suggested that each day, planners need to look at where they expect to be in 3 weeks.
Which is impossible to tell without mass testing.

As long as there arare asymptomatic people out there spreading it this thing will continue to double every few days.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2020, 17:44:16 »
I think the net result from this pandemic is that the US healthcare system will look the same, but CDC will be reorganized and refocused as a research unit/ expert advisory board and as the crisis management board for national response to another such situation. For years there has been criticism of the CDC continuing to expand it overview and mission, where the critical role was subdued/semi-forgotten. I expect a tighter more focused CDC will eventually emerge with extraordinary powers but within a smaller arc relating to fighting viral epidemics.   

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2020, 18:20:10 »
>Which is impossible to tell without mass testing.

What is impossible to tell?

>As long as there arare asymptomatic people out there spreading it this thing will continue to double every few days.

I think I understand what you might mean, but what you wrote is not strictly true.  It is possible for asymptomatic carriers to be spreading the disease while the overall number of cases continues to fall from a peak.  I doubt that is the current situation, of course.

If Trump thinks the US is just going to reopen for business by Easter, he is wildly overoptimistic.  But it should be possible for "the authorities" to carefully choose venues in which restrictions can be reduced.  Even very cautious moves toward restoration of normalcy should help to reduce stress and give people patience to endure continued restrictions where such cannot yet be removed.
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Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2020, 19:06:16 »
If Canada and the west(US about to dump 2 trillion in stimulus) could survive the spending that went along with 6 years it took to defeat Hitler,  then they can survive a year of this

Where do you think that 2 trillion is coming from? Its not savings. They are literally pulling it out of thin air, think Germany 20s-early 30s style. Unlike WWII which caused a economic boom after a decade of hardship, this is doing the opposite.

I'm not saying our system is going to collapse tomorrow, or this year, simply long term if we continue down this path it ends in default, like Greece, or many of the South American countries. Events like this will just speed it up slightly.

Right now I am exceptionally concerned with the actions of our governments. They have gotten increasingly authoritarian without even having any real due diligence in suspending peoples rights and freedoms. I am not saying actions do not need to be taken, however I do not like how quickly we are willing to jump to the most draconian measures due to fear.

I also do not like how they have suspended parliament due to their fears when we need them most at this time. If the House of Commons is too small for the social distancing you can set something up in another place where there is the space, or even better using the internet or other technology we can have them work from home without the requirements to be physically in location. This is 2020, if they were able to run parliament during the Spanish Flu, they can certainly do so now with all the benefits modern technology brings us.

Offline garb811

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2020, 19:20:12 »
Where do you think that 2 trillion is coming from? Its not savings. They are literally pulling it out of thin air, think Germany 20s-early 30s style. Unlike WWII which caused a economic boom after a decade of hardship, this is doing the opposite.
...

You might want to rethink that. WW2 was funded by massive debts being incurred by all countries involved, the US included, which had a debt to GDP ratio of 113% at the end of it all.
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Offline Altair

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Re: CDN/US Covid-related political discussion
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2020, 19:43:31 »
Where do you think that 2 trillion is coming from? Its not savings. They are literally pulling it out of thin air, think Germany 20s-early 30s style. Unlike WWII which caused a economic boom after a decade of hardship, this is doing the opposite.

I'm not saying our system is going to collapse tomorrow, or this year, simply long term if we continue down this path it ends in default, like Greece, or many of the South American countries. Events like this will just speed it up slightly.

Right now I am exceptionally concerned with the actions of our governments. They have gotten increasingly authoritarian without even having any real due diligence in suspending peoples rights and freedoms. I am not saying actions do not need to be taken, however I do not like how quickly we are willing to jump to the most draconian measures due to fear.

I also do not like how they have suspended parliament due to their fears when we need them most at this time. If the House of Commons is too small for the social distancing you can set something up in another place where there is the space, or even better using the internet or other technology we can have them work from home without the requirements to be physically in location. This is 2020, if they were able to run parliament during the Spanish Flu, they can certainly do so now with all the benefits modern technology brings us.
WW2 wasn't funded by savings either.  They printed/borrowed money to fund the war. A obscene amount.

A correction to the stimulus actually,  the Americans are up to 6 trillion.
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