Author Topic: A Deeply Fractured US  (Read 37770 times)

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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #525 on: August 02, 2020, 15:33:50 »
An extract of the definition of fascism from the The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics and International Relations (Oxford Quick Reference) (p. 193). OUP Oxford. Fourth Edition (2018)  Edited by Brown, Garrett W; McLean, Iain; McMillan, Alistair.

While the US under Donald Trump is not a fascist dictatorship, if you look at the examples I posted above you can see that parts of his platform does include elements that we would describe as fascist.
What parts?
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #526 on: August 02, 2020, 15:57:44 »
An extract of the definition of fascism from the The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics and International Relations (Oxford Quick Reference) (p. 193). OUP Oxford. Fourth Edition (2018)  Edited by Brown, Garrett W; McLean, Iain; McMillan, Alistair.

While the US under Donald Trump is not a fascist dictatorship, if you look at the examples I posted above you can see that parts of his platform does include elements that we would describe as fascist.

An extract from Encyclopedia Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/science/confirmation-bias

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Confirmation bias, the tendency to process information by looking for, or interpreting, information that is consistent with one’s existing beliefs. This biased approach to decision making is largely unintentional and often results in ignoring inconsistent information. Existing beliefs can include one’s expectations in a given situation and predictions about a particular outcome. People are especially likely to process information to support their own beliefs when the issue is highly important or self-relevant.

Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #527 on: August 02, 2020, 17:25:08 »
What parts?

My bad. I had originally highlighted the sections that I had thought relevant, but deleted prior to posting. In hindsight should have left highlights in place.

Quote
simplistic, in the sense of ascribing complex phenomena to single causes and advancing single remedies(e.g. Giving tax breaks to corporations will boost the economy or starting a trade war with China will help the economy); fundamentalist, that is, involving a division of the world into ‘good’ and ‘bad’ with nothing in between (e.g. United States vs everyone else); and conspiratorial, that is, predicated on the existence of a secret world‐wide conspiracy by a hostile group seeking to manipulate the masses to achieve and/ or maintain a dominant position (e.g. fake news; deep state; Q-anon).

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(2) an assertion of national decline— that at some point in the mythical past the nation was great,..(Trump harps on this all the time about how previous administrations were negligent in signing deals/treaties with other countries and this has led to the US decline).
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(4) a charismatic leader embodying the ‘real’ interests of the nation and energizing the masses. (Donald Trump in all his glory!)

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[n}ational/ racial purity now takes the form of opposition to continuing immigration ... (A major plank of Donald Trumps political platform from Day 1; hence the push for a border wall, Muslim immigration bans, among other restrictions in immigration); totalitarianism and dictatorship have been replaced by lesser demands for a significant strengthening in the authority of the state, allegedly within a democratic framework(Stacking the SCOTUS with right-wing judges; the same for appointing dozens of federal judges who may be more beholding to ideology than rule of law; firing Inspector-Generals for investigating Trump loyalists; appointing lapdogs to head the DOJ and DHS, etc); .... and military glory has been largely eschewed (Rather than invading someone, President Trump instead instigated a trade war with China that has cost American taxpayers billions and not only that has attacked Americas closest trading partners pi$$ing everyone off and upsetting world trade).

As I earlier posted, the US is not at present a fascist dictatorship, but in the last three years, thanks to a complacent Senate he has been able to get away with stuff that no other US President has been able too. So much so that the US Founding Fathers are probably spinning in their graves.

And as Puckchaser posted earlier I may be just a victim of Confirmation Bias. But I truly believe that if Donald Trump is President come 12:01 20 Jan 2021 then look out.

Enjoy.

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #528 on: August 02, 2020, 22:45:29 »
communism A left‐wing nationalist* ideology or movement with a totalitarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism.

*Rodina!
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #529 on: August 02, 2020, 23:02:23 »
>parts of his platform does include elements that we would describe as fascist.

Parts of many platforms or ideologies include elements from the lists people propose for "fascist".  The problem with making the case for fascism is firstly to show that the government is illiberal, and then to identify the factors that distinguish it from the other illiberalisms.

A person has a high temperature, a runny nose, a cough, chest pain.  What ails him?

Collectivism of any kind is prone to deteriorate into totalitarianism, and thereafter tyranny.  Either dissent - allowing people to go their own way, to have their own beliefs and express them - is tolerated, or it is not.

Nearly all political movements are hierarchical.  Governments as we know them certainly are.  The mythical "collective" has never really been tried, except by small communities.  Families are hierarchical, and I can guess that most "collectives" have some sort of council at least which usurps true mass collective decision making.

It is easy enough to find governments and regimes that are basically cargo cult democracies or are more illiberal than liberal.  Few of them are just temporarily taking a vacation from democracy and liberal ideas.

People who claim that they will fund their programs by "taxing the rich" are simplistic.

Antifa and its supporters are fundamentalist; the staff at the NYT and WSJ who want to divide the world into opinions they will accept and opinions they will not are fundamentalist.

Trump hasn't even managed to do what Obama did.  Obama did DACA by executive action; Trump isn't even allowed to undo it using the same mechanism.  What is it you imagine that Trump has been able to do that no past president could do?
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"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #530 on: August 03, 2020, 10:00:34 »
A tangent rather than a full-scale  :highjack: but, see Frank Ching;s article in the Globe and Mail in which he explains some of the reasons East Asian societies have done better than many Western ones in combatting the COVID-19 virus.

(The big weakness in his analysis is that it ignores Australia, which is very Western-liberal, but is also doing exceptionally well. The other big reason for "Easterm" success is that unlike America, Britain and Canada and so on, Australia and most East Asian societies cut travel ties with China very early on in the crisis.)

Anyway, Mr Ching notes that Confucian societies place family above all else, certainly above the individual, and after family comes clan and then community and so on. It is easy in Hong Kong, for example, to get people to wear face masks; it was almost automatic. They already do so, en masse, every flu season. As soon as someone said it spreads as an aerosol the whole country ~ and Japan, South Korea and Singapore, too ~ "masked up" without being told.

They do it, largely, as matter of good manners. The normal (non-N95) mask does not do much to protect you or me from a virus but it does protect others if you or I are carriers. Therefore good manners and our strong community values mean that we all agree to wear masks to try to help protect everyone else from us. It's not a clasasically liberal notion.   
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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #531 on: August 03, 2020, 10:36:38 »
A tangent rather than a full-scale  :highjack: but, see Frank Ching;s article in the Globe and Mail in which he explains some of the reasons East Asian societies have done better than many Western ones in combatting the COVID-19 virus.

One sometimes wonders if Mr Ching should be considered a usual suspect, e.g., he quotes the PRC's constitution with a straight face as if the CCP takes it seriously and allows the party's conduct to be governed by it:

Quote
...
The Chinese constitution is notable for coupling rights with responsibilities. For example, Article 51 declares: “Citizens of the People’s Republic of China, in exercising their freedoms and rights, may not infringe upon the interests of the state, of society or of the collective, or upon the lawful freedoms and rights of other citizens.”

Thus, rights are to be exercised in a responsible manner; an individual’s rights are subordinate to the community’s rights...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-why-eastern-countries-are-more-successful-in-fighting-covid-19/

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #532 on: August 03, 2020, 11:32:54 »
Further to post above on Globe piece by Frank Ching, a tweet:

Quote
Rick Knowlan
@strategyrick
Replying to
@nspector4

His thesis is undermined by the performance of predominately white Asia Pacific regions like BC, AUS, NZ, with high levels of individual rights. He ignores the performance of governments in setting and executing policy, which is a huge causative variable.
https://twitter.com/strategyrick/status/1290270287380926464

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #533 on: August 03, 2020, 14:06:05 »
A neighbourly society can be and often is a liberal one, without having any deep-rooted deferential customs to family, community, etc.  I've lived in communities that are very neighbourly, with voting patterns ranging from NDP through LPC to CPC.  It's the people who make the communities and respect each other; no government imposes it from above.
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"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

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Offline Donald H

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Re: A Deeply Fractured US
« Reply #534 on: August 05, 2020, 13:16:36 »
Further to post above on Globe piece by Frank Ching, a tweet:

Mark
Ottawa

How again is his thesis undermined? It's pretty clear that population density is the largest factor (US being an exception on account of Trump's behaviour)

Not just China but also several other Asian countries, including *H.K. have outperformed others, as he suggests. BC., AUS, and NZ comparisons don't fit due to low density populations.

How does Vancouver's high density population stack up compared to large Asian cities?

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