Author Topic: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting  (Read 994 times)

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Offline matt031

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UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« on: August 14, 2020, 22:27:43 »
I just completed my university and have been told that I am not entitled to a full posting. I have been told that I will get a prohibited posting until my trade course is complete. I believe that my PSO from 4 years ago told me that I would get a full posting when I was done school because of the prior service and being trade qualified. I have 14 years in already and I was expecting a full posting with my family especially since my trades course will likely not be happening for a year or so. Does anyone know if that information is accurate and I am entitled to a full cost move when I complete my degree? If so is there somewhere that states that?
Thank you.

Offline winds_13

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2020, 12:02:01 »
matt031, it is normal for members on the BTL to be given prohibited postings until they finish their basic occupation training. Entitlement to a cost move is not tied to one's number of years of service, unless you're talking about a retirement move. When you spoke with the PSO prior to entering the program, they may have assumed that you would have completed your occupation training by the time you graduate, which is often the case with UTPNCM and ROTP. As of now, you are not trade qualified.

In my understanding, it is up to the trade whether you will be officially sent on your first unit posting or remain on a prohibited posting while waiting to complete your occupation courses (ie. OJT, PAT platoon). Might I ask what trade you are and what the plan is for you while you wait for your trade course(s)?

As far as policy goes, I recommend to get the information straight from the source, rather than from people who have probably never read the policy themselves.

All of the CAF's administrative policies/orders can be found on the Canada.ca website. I also recommend downloading the Canadian Forces App for CANFORGEN notices, as well as the resource links.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/defence-administrative-orders-directives/alphabetical-listing.html
"History doesn't repeat itself - at best it sometimes rhymes" - Mark Twain

Offline matt031

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2020, 22:48:36 »
I was Infantry with 3 RCR for 10 years so I am trade qualified in that trade, however, I guess that does not count as trade qualified because I am not trade qualified in my new trade of AEC.
As for the policy on this I have not been able to find anything pertaining to my situation in the DAOD's.

Offline Brashendeavours

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2020, 20:01:36 »
What was the posting message to your current location for UTPNCM?

Offline edlabonte

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2020, 00:11:02 »
I'm also in UTPNCM, and i assumed i would be on prohibited posting between university and occupational training which is why i picked a university that is co-located with my occupational training so i would not endure the separation from my family after university.  In all my research i did not find anything that indicated that i would get a full posting until my occupational training was competed.

Offline Lockwire

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2020, 01:27:18 »
I'm also in UTPNCM, and i assumed i would be on prohibited posting between university and occupational training which is why i picked a university that is co-located with my occupational training so i would not endure the separation from my family after university.  In all my research i did not find anything that indicated that i would get a full posting until my occupational training was competed.

Do you know what happens with Air Crew? I have heard that portage/moose jaw is a full posting always, no? Pilot training all together can take up to 3 years with OJT in between :whistle:

Offline Drallib

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2020, 07:01:43 »
Do you know what happens with Air Crew? I have heard that portage/moose jaw is a full posting always, no? Pilot training all together can take up to 3 years with OJT in between :whistle:

I don't think Phase 1 is a full posting, but that is only 2 months, 4 at most (weather depending).

Offline edlabonte

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2020, 14:17:26 »
Do you know what happens with Air Crew? I have heard that portage/moose jaw is a full posting always, no? Pilot training all together can take up to 3 years with OJT in between :whistle:

I have met a few pilot OJTs along various phases of flight training and nobody i know got a full posting until they got their wings at the end of phase 3.  The courses are not long enough to warrant a posting and a move. 

Online Navy_Pete

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Re: UTPNCM entitled to a full posting
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2020, 15:08:43 »
I just completed my university and have been told that I am not entitled to a full posting. I have been told that I will get a prohibited posting until my trade course is complete. I believe that my PSO from 4 years ago told me that I would get a full posting when I was done school because of the prior service and being trade qualified. I have 14 years in already and I was expecting a full posting with my family especially since my trades course will likely not be happening for a year or so. Does anyone know if that information is accurate and I am entitled to a full cost move when I complete my degree? If so is there somewhere that states that?
Thank you.

Some of the trades have short courses at the start which are prohibited postings for everyone; think it depends on how long they expect you to be at a certain location. For example, some navy trades do a short 3 month course in Victoria before going to Halifax or staying in Victoria for longer trade courses. Normally once that was done and they were posted to your more long term location the restriction would be lifted (which if you are staying in location may just be an amendment saying you are now entitled to the full relocation benefits)

For the ref though you want to refer to the CBIs; they are the go to for all things financial. Chapter 208 deals with relocation, and provided the link below. The key for this one would be tied to what is allowed for someone who has reached OFP, which is defined as;

Quote
operationally functional point (OFP)
    means the point when a member completes all qualifications required for their first employment in the military occupation for which they most recently enrolled, re-enrolled or transferred to the Regular Force.
    (amended by TB, effective 19 April 2018)

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/corporate/policies-standards/compensation-benefits-instructions/chapter-208-relocation-benefits.html


When I used to be an instructor, UTPNCMs used to get the full HRGS move (as they had completed their OFP on their first trade) but that may have been updated with new direction when it was amended by TB. For DEOs our first move was under the HG&E program, which effectively has 95% of the same benefits, and was administered via the BOR instead of Brookfield. (side note; was the smoothest move I've had). At the time RMC had HRGS moves even though they hadn't reached OFP, so there was some internal updates to the application of the policy as well.

There is probably some specific clarification on this in some kind of admin order but know it's one of those things that has been grieved a few times.  Sure some of the admin gurus on here could clarify what the current policy is and provide the specific ref to back it up. Anyway, I'd ask for clarification with that including a specific policy, as the whole idea of tying the additional benefits to OFP was to save a bit of money on moving people before they are actually employable.

Your actual posting message will have a specific para on it with the move entitlement though, so don't just take someone's word of it. If you had gotten out and re-enrolled as an officer under a different entry plan, probably changes things, but for programs like UTPNCM or CFR would be pretty surprised if that resulted in a reduction of entitlements for moves.