Author Topic: Artillery Officer Merged Thread  (Read 150187 times)

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Offline Meridian

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2004, 11:13:00 »
Yes, as a formour 21U (armour) at RMC... I can tell you OTs are next to impossible.. but not impossible.

Actually.. far from it. but I‘ll explain.

Twice a year, every year (may only be once now), the Forces come around and ask everyone if they would like to switch into an occupation that currently is in dire straights...  Now keep in mind, they investigate your current degree, suitability and current level of training...  a 4th year who has 3 phases of inty training aint gonna transfer over to MARS anytime soon.

But it does happen frequently enough, if you are lucky enough.

The biggest thing you do have to realize, is if you DO have Aircrew (and Im not entirely sure how much you think youve done, because there are different parts to it (cyclo, etc), and they still didnt take you, it is because the pilot program is VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY Full.

I mean they take tons of people at the junior program WITHOUT aircrew, so if you ahve it, then this year their numbers say they dont need you.


That and noone ever signs up for Arty.

Offline RCA

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2004, 13:26:00 »
The descion is ultimaly yours, but may I ask what the problem with Artillery is. not sexy enough?

The Arillery is one of the more technically challanging trades, and the aptitude required is one of the highest in Land Forces. The team work and expertise to put a round on the ground at the right time in the right place is professionally gratifiying. Being a FOO entails knowing the infantry/armour‘s tactics as well, as your own. Keep an open mind and do some reasearch.

 Of paricualr note, Gens Jeffries, Leslie and Dallaire are/were Gunners, and the incoming LFWA Comd is also a Gunner.

As for nobody signing up for the Artillery, bullshit.
Ubique

531_Angel

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2004, 15:50:00 »
well, about the qualifications for pilot ... the fact that i was sent for Aircrew Selection (at CFB Trenton), is a good sign, as not everyone gets that far.  then i passed both the pilot and air nav tests, so there‘s nothing stopping me from being put in the pilot program.  My medical cleared too, so thats not a problem either.

and to RCA, as to your comment regarding the artillery as "not sexy enough", thats not true.  But when you‘ve had you sights set on pilot since before you were 10, ya its a bit of a disappointment.  Sorry you saw my post that way.

Fusilier955, i like your idea of goin in the reserves and then switching to reg force.  that‘s an option that my recruiting office never told me.  

I realize that OT‘s are like pulling teeth, but they are possible i guess.  I know the chances are slim, but there‘s always a chance.  And i figure arty isnt too bad.  right now, im considering one of two paths:  joining the reserves and then jumping reg force, or taking arty.  can someone tell me the pro‘s / con‘s of each?  

And thanks to everyone who‘s posted so far.  you guys have been really helpful.

Offline Casing

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2004, 16:26:00 »
Taio, I completely understand you feelings about being passed over for pilot.  Considering the CF is desperate for pilots, I wonder if your case is a result of this year‘s training quota slots being full already...?  Though, I thought I read something within the past few weeks that only half of this year‘s desired pilot numbers have been recruited (this is not subtantiated so take it with some salt).

If I was single I would be going Arty DEO rather than one of the engineering occupations.  I think RCA‘s explanation is excellent.  Continue with your (good on you for posting here towards that effort) research and you‘ll see that there is quite a lot more to Artillery than "just sitting back putting lead on some targets in some far off land".  While it might not be the trade for you, you‘ll still be rather surprised.

531_Angel

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2004, 17:26:00 »
Thats the one thing that i was really bewildered by.  The DND site has had it posted that they need pilots really badly.  Why they wouldnt take more in their quota for RMC is beyond me.  (Also, the only other pilot candidate to actually pass aircrew selection got an offer for RMC too... in infantry.  I think i got a better offer than him lol.)  I guess it deals with the fact that i wouldn‘t be posted anywhere or done training until after 5 years, and by then the needs of the forces will have changed.

While watching some of the recruiting videos, the one on arty said that "Arty officers require high mathematical skills (physics and whatnot) and skills with computers.  It also said this on the sheets they have in the recruiting office about the different MOCs.  how true is this, and to what extent are these skills needed?

i figure the best place to do any more research is here, as i can get honest, no BS answers from ppl who know what they are doing.

and thanks once again for everyone‘s help

Offline devil39

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2004, 18:02:00 »
My advice would be to take a classification that you are interested in if you intend to make a career of it.  It can be a very long army if you are stuck doing something that does not interest you.

Again you must balance that with the acceptance to RMC.  If RMC entrance is a higher priority than your MOC take the offer of Arty.

I would think that the re-muster from within the system would perhaps be possible, but it seems like a gamble to me.

All MOCs are important and have their positives and negatives, and you will be challenged whatever you choose.

As an ex-R021 Artilleryman, a failed out Ph 4 Pilot flying Tutors, and a current Infantry Officer, I would not trade back to either of my previous occupations.  I could however be happy in either.

Offline Meridian

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2004, 19:08:00 »
Realize that RMC candidates/quotas are for 5 years down the road.. pilots get their wings in 7....  so the quotas are quite different.. A DEO can  be up, trained and flying within 2-3-4 years...

Offline RCA

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2004, 19:45:00 »
I made the comment just to get a rise and see what direction you were coming from.

I can fully understand your disappointment, and if this is what you want, then leave no stone unturned and do everything in your power to make it happen. There is someone out there who can give you an answer about your real chances, if not this year then maybe next. The trades are Option B for you. Its good to research them also so all your options are open. I have no idea about the remustering before and after, but I guessing, the older you get, the harder it will be to OT as a pilot.

As for an Artillery officer, math skills, spatial perception, and computer skills are important. You start out as a Recce Officer, where you recce a piece of ground, find a suitable location for 6 guns, CPs, and other Bty vehs, bring them in and orientate the guns so they are facing a common direction (Center of Arc). You must always know your map location, and be able to bring survey to the guns. You will have a Recce TSM with you who is always helpful, but the decisions and responsibilities are yours.

After that you are trained in the CP, where you learn Fire Discipline, the theory of indirect, and computation of firing data from the OP to the guns. (This is done by computer and Techs) but no round can go unless you are sure the data is correct. Again you will have a Tech WO to help and guide you, but ultimately you are responsible for rounds down range. And make no mistake, we do not use blanks or training ammunition.

After its training as FOO where you learn the combat team/battle group tactics and learn to call down fire for your supported arms.

 That is a very quick synopsis, and I have missed some things and glossed over others, but at least I hope I peeked your interest. Being a Gunner can be rewarding, as we tend to add dignity to what otherwise would be termed an unruly brawl. And you would be joining a proud fraternity, as Once a Gunner, Always a Gunner.

 I'll get of my soapbox now.
Ubique

fusilier955

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2004, 10:11:00 »
I know that the Artillery is a good trade, (mind you not as good as, oh say the Infantry)  :D    But what it boils down to is settling for what you want and not second best.  Now you had plenty of info from the Arty side of your question so now for the reserve.

The plus side for the reserve is that it is like a test drive for a car.  If you like it you can buy it (transfer to the Reg force).  It gives you skills and experience and will give you a slight advantage on your Reg force training when you make the jump.  Also it gives you money at school, a cool job, something to do during the year, pays for half your education, most of the common benefits you get in the reg force (dental, medical), plus a guarenteed summer job.  

Also you can experience civie university life, RMC life is completely different.  RMC is very regimented, you dont have a lot of freedom in courses for your first 2 years at RMC, at civie university you can take anything you want, and even switch your program if you want with ease.  At civie university you get the "experience" that you would miss at RMC, and visa versa for RMC.

Look at the over all picture, then decide what you want.  If you go to RMC you are pretty much planning the next 10 years of your life, and picking your career right now.  If you dont want to do what they want you to be, then dont, it is your career.  Well good luck!

531_Angel

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2004, 10:21:00 »
hey everyone.

After much deliberation, I‘ve accepted my offer for artillery.  I do my physical test on June 1st (step test, hand grip, pushups, situps).  I get my briefing for going away and my enrollemnt ceremony is on the 22nd, and i need to be in st jean for august 8.

im extremely excited and cant wait to get going.  thank you everyone that posted here.  your insight was very helpful.

Offline Big Foot

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Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #35 on: August 09, 2004, 02:26:44 »
I was just wondering what kind of stuff I can expect to face throughut my training to become an Artillery officer. I mean, everyone I've talked to seems to give me different, often conflicting information about what I'm going to be doing through CAP, Phase III and Phase IV. I really have no idea what to expect during my upcoming training   so thanks in advance for any heads up you can give me. Sure IAP was easy, but will the rest of my summer courses be that easy? I should surely hope not.
It's not insubordinate if you know exactly where the line is and walk on it but never cross it.

Offline Scott937

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #36 on: August 09, 2004, 12:44:32 »
Now, I'm not extensively familiar with the new DP model, this is as close to it as I can get.

CAP- Basic Infantry Section Comd within a Platoon frame work. The don't expect you to be come an infantry section commander full stop, but they expect you to learn soldier skills and develop as a leader. Think of this as "Intro to the Army"

Phase 3 (I don't know the DP Model numbers)- Comd Post officer and the duties of a Jr Officer on the gun line. You will learn to compute the data (bearing and Elevation) for the gun to tgt location that the observer identified. There is alot of command and control aspects to the training and you will become quite good at managing several Nets (radios) at the same time.

Phase 4- This is where you will learn to become the Recce officer, this is all about developing a gun positions for your Bty of guns. You will also get introduced to other gun line jobs such as Gun Position Officer, safety officer, and Troop Commander. There is some tactics involved in this phase to combine with the technical aspects that phase 3 gave you...

Scott

Offline Big Foot

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2004, 02:12:59 »
Thanks a lot for your info, Scott :) Really nice to see that as time goes on, they will be training me to be at least sorta competent in everything. Sounds like I have an interesting few summers ahead of me. Really look forward to getting into this artillery thing full steam ahead. Again, thanks Scott, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of info of this nature anywhere, even recruiting centres.
It's not insubordinate if you know exactly where the line is and walk on it but never cross it.

Offline GINge!

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2004, 19:20:10 »
Isn't there an Army club at RMC? Your best bet is to talk the Gunner cadets a year ahead of you to find out what their summer was like.

Good luck!
It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

Offline Rocky 88

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2004, 15:34:05 »
Its all good training just keep your head about your self and dont get wraped around the axle. do your best and dont give up and you will be fine. trust your compass..... UBIQUE and have a good one :salute:

Offline birdgunnnersrule

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2004, 18:49:28 »
:) Like some other people have said, you should ask your friends that already attended training at the Arty School. After CAP, Phase 3 or Dp something or another is a combination of field, air defence, and locating modules.  The bulk of the work focuses on the field side of the house. I hope this helps out!! P. S. Don't believe everything you hear because all three have different things to offer.  Most RMC cadets end up on the field side. 

Offline Big Foot

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2004, 13:32:08 »
Thanks a lot, guys. If rumors are true (which they hardly ever are) I'll be off to BOTP and CAP this summer and on my way to being arty qualified. I have been talking with both RMC cadets and reg officers who have done time in artillery and, after thinking about changing trades, I thought again and am going ARTY.
It's not insubordinate if you know exactly where the line is and walk on it but never cross it.

Offline Paish

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Re: VERY important questions
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2005, 02:04:16 »


That and noone ever signs up for Arty.

Whah? Is this true? I would kill to serve in the artillery!!(In process of applying )
"We should all be wearing it high and tight in my opinion - so take that you hippies..." - Infanteer.

Offline Meridian

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Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2005, 13:54:40 »
Well not no one... But if you look at Kincanucks postings, you can see that Arty generally has the most room of the Cbt arms.

Offline SHELLDRAKE!!

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Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2005, 09:57:17 »
Perhaps that is because Artillery is the only truly technical trade in the combat arms and in order to be a proper gunner, you must be constantly upgrading your arty skills.That leaves older gunners not willing to quit the artillery at the drop of a dime because they have invested so much training time and therefore the promotions in the artillery are alot slower.

I think you will find that typically the other combat arms have a quicker promotion rate but a lower retention rate based on the idea that obviously someone must be getting out somewhere in order to promote people up.
"Artillerymen believe the world consists of two types of people; other Artillerymen and targets"-unknown

Offline gunneryfreak

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Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2005, 21:21:34 »
I hope you're joining with the full intention of giving it your best.  The worst you can do for yourself and for the Corps is to become a gunner whose heart string dips in sh.....  Not only are you wasting the instructors at the school's time and effort but you're also taking the spot of someone who might have all the attributes of a "happy Arty officer"  As far as Occupational Transfers"  this highly unlikely.  As of last month, we are 50 Captains short in the arty.  That means that all new officers coming in, who would want to get out of the trade would have to compete to get into a new trade and compete to get out of their current trade,  Based on the shortage, this may not be an option at this time.  In any case, it seems that you have made you choice.  Good luck and see you at the school soon hopefully. ;D

Offline iDV

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Re: VERY important_ Should I Go Artillery Officer?
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2005, 00:09:16 »
To add my piece of the puzzle, I am an arty officer, 14 years in. Every trade as its pros and cons. Looks like the arty is slow to promote, both for Officers and NCOs, compare to Inf and Arty. We did had a few years in a row with 0 promotions in quite a number of rank levels. Because of this fact, a good number of excellent captains transfered trade (Int, Pilot, Eng, PA, all friends of mine) some of them are majors now, and they would probably still be captain have they decided to stay. The fact that we are 40 captains short is probably directly linked to it.

As far as the job is concerned, as an arty officer, most of the time, you do the same thing as any other cbt arms officer ... paperwork, staff work, etc. Only on exercise or on operation do you do the job for which you are trained for. The best one I had as arty was as a Observer (FOO). You are then totally away from your arty unit and under op control of an inf unit, armour unit, or combat team. You are then as forward as they are. The FOO must be able (as the engineer officer) to advise his supported arm commander (usually of the rank of major for a FOO) on all indirect fire usage, including the use of tanks in the fire base role. The arty officer must acquire early in his career deep knowledge of tactics of all arms in order to understand two levels up the tactical situation (this means that you have to be able, if working at a cbt team level, to have the tactical vision of the battle group, and to understand the objective of the divisional artillery).

By the way, the myth that the arty is far behind is false. For guns with an 18km range, two thirds of the range must be pass the front line, leaving the guns 6km from the fight, with recce officers being very close of enemy areas if on the advance.

As a FOO, you attend to Battle Group commander's Order Group with the major you are supporting. That is were you meet with your own arty Major (bty commander), which then gives you supplementary instructions on arty matters and tactics.

If you are also trained as a FAC (Fast Air Controller) you could be given the task of directing a F-18 onto a ground target, since this is also an indirect fire capability.

You and your team act just like infantry while performing any other non arty related tasks. You must then be able to lead a platoon if needed. You also are capable of setting up local defense and direct fire assets for an infantry company, because of your training and knowledge of tactics.

The soldiers you comand are very technically capable. You or your men are often asked to help with communication issues while with infantry, since an gunner is normally very efficient technically in this field, when sigs are not around.

On most UN and NATO missions, you would deploy in an infantry role, except when deploying guns or mortars.

In summary, an arty officer must be a decent infantry officer on top of being an arty officer. But don't count of doing arty stuff all your career. I would say that 80 % of the work you would do in a 20 yrs career would be spent doing mostly staff work, and for the 20 % on arty duties, I am being very generous.

There are experienced arty officers in Kingston and at RMC, talk to them to make up your mind. Good Luck ! UBIQUE
UBIQUE

Offline canadiancarebear

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Re: Artillery Training, Officer style
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2005, 19:49:04 »
hey there.

Im in the same position as you are.  I finished IAP and BOTP and am now doing french training in st jean.  Im having the same thoughts as you are about being unsure what to expect come CAP and phase 3 and 4.  Im also a 115 pound girl so im a little worried if thats gonna make it harder on me to.  It was nice to read your posting and see that theres others who are unsure as well. Thanks   :)   I'll keep checking here to see if anyone tells you anything else about arty officer trainig.
Carebear

Offline mac09

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reserve artillery officer
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2005, 16:58:35 »
Hello all,  I am currently enrolling in the DEO Artillery and have been viewing many posts on this site regarding taining.  Is there anyone out there who could tell me how long the  CAP and occupatonal training takes for reservists.  There seems to be alot of talk as far as CAP goes but not much on Artillery training.  I have hoever heard that BMQ is 5 weeks and CAP is 6 weeks for reservists. 

Thanks,

Chris.

Offline Standards

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Re: reserve artillery officer
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2005, 16:26:30 »
The RAOTP (Res Arty Offr) crse was 41 days long in 1 x 11 day plus 3 x 10 day modules.  However a board just sat a couple of weeks ago to re-evaluate and update the courseware.  I understand the crse is now a total of 55 trg days, but have yet to see anything on paper.  Historically the course runs Jul-Aug in Shilo, but the increase in duration will probably have the crse commencing in Jun.  Hope this of some help.