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Offline mitsulance

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Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2008, 00:47:50 »
Hello,

I have been researching extensively about joining the CF. In particular, I am considering applying as an ARTY officer at my local battery, 29th Field Battery within the 11th Field Regiment, RCA in Guelph. I am applying for Primary Reserve until I finish my degree and then will decide if I want to go full time or apply for Int Officer. I intend to visit the battery this Thursday and see what happens within the Reserves. I do however, want to find out from people that are either within the Reserves or Regular Forces what is it like as an ARTY officer?

Do you experience numerous tours, where have you been sent, where are you posted? Do you get transferred often? What sort of duties and tasks do you do while not deployed? Have you experienced any hearing loss as an officer? Is promotion rate within the ARTY faster or slower compared to other Combat Arms or other branches in general? (Below the rank of Captain)

I noticed in numerous posts a couple years ago there was a shortage of ARTY officers, however currently on the CF website, there is a high demand for Artillery Solider – Field, would this imply that there is now enough ARTY officers, or even too many and that the CF are now looking for NCMs to serve under these officers?

Thanks

Offline Ralph

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #51 on: August 04, 2008, 18:00:41 »
Well, nobody else is biting, so I'll add my dinar. As with all calls for information, I hope you have used the search function on this site. That and the CF recruiting site should answer most of your questions.
The majority of the people I did training with starting with five years ago will have gone to Afghanistan two or three times by 2011, whether we're done at that point or not. Right now, Afghanistan is really the only show in town.
After training, you are posted to either Shilo, Petawawa, Valcartier or remain in Gagetown. The first posting, these days, lasts on average four-ish years, but could be less or more depending on the vagaries of your career.
No matter what your job is in the field, your main job in garrison is the administration and training of the troops.
If you choose not to use the ear protection issued to you, hearing loss is possible. But we're all big boys and girls here.
Everyone gets promoted to Captain at the same rate, AFAIK - DEOs get Lt upon completion of Ph IV and Capt after a year, MilCol/civvy U plan grads need one year as a 2Lt and two as an Lt after graduation.
The powers-that-be decide how many spots each trade gets per year. Arty officers have had quite a few of the cbt arms spots the last couple years. As with all trades, there are not enough soldiers to fill every position, whether NCM, NCO or officer.
Hope this helps. Int and Arty share some similarities, but your idea to check out the battery in Guelph is probably best to see if you want to get your hands dirty, figuratively and literally.
Cheers.

Offline CorporalMajor

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2008, 14:06:30 »


I noticed in numerous posts a couple years ago there was a shortage of ARTY officers, however currently on the CF website, there is a high demand for Artillery Solider – Field, would this imply that there is now enough ARTY officers, or even too many and that the CF are now looking for NCMs to serve under these officers?

Thanks
If it helps, I've also heard from many freinds, including OCdts that the Arty officers are also in serious demand.  Just because it isn't on the page as "red" doesn't mean they don't require people - just those trades are starving the most.

If they're going to recruit more Arty Soliders, you can bet they need more Officers to watch over them as well.

The combat arms have very, very high turnover rates relative to other trades, simply because of the nature of the work, and the operational tempo. Many people decide it's not their thing, and become something else, and the Arty is not an exception. So with vacancies come demand.

Best way to know for sure, talk to the folks at your Recruiting Centre, and have at 'er.
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Offline jeffb

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2008, 20:30:24 »
It would seem as if Regular army Arty officers are understrength. There's a ton of them on the BMOQ course starting Jan. 05. That doesn't necessarily mean that 29th Field is understrength.
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Offline ltmaverick25

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2008, 15:46:54 »
Im just curious if you managed to get into the Regiment yet?

I was talking to 11 FD back in Sept about possibly joining them as an Arty Officer, I ended up going MARS instead.  But they told me they have 5 Arty Officers that still require MOC training and they could not get it because the unit was only being given 1 spot per year, so they said any new officers would be waiting a while to become trained.

Have you heard anything about this?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2008, 16:11:54 »
There are production capacity concerns in several occupations.  There's no point in enrolling young officers if they can't get trained; certain trades demand a large number of supprot personnel for their training.  Artillery is one - it takes a whole lot of folks to make the guns go boom on cue for the young officers undergoing training; if you're short of gunners and bombadiers, you'll have problems training enough artillery officers.
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Offline ltmaverick25

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2008, 17:38:45 »
Indeed, that was one of the things that turned me off about it.  I did not want to be stuck as a 2Lt for 5 years.

Offline Furtry

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2009, 03:32:22 »
Indeed, that was one of the things that turned me off about it.  I did not want to be stuck as a 2Lt for 5 years.
Not sure what you're talking about, I've seen guys promoted to Capt. in less than a year. Half of my phase 4/DP 1.2 were promoted to Lt. at the grad parade.

For me life as an Arty officer; DP training does not prepare you for everything you will have to know how to do. Otherwise I love it :).

Offline ltmaverick25

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2009, 04:43:45 »
Not sure what you're talking about, I've seen guys promoted to Capt. in less than a year. Half of my phase 4/DP 1.2 were promoted to Lt. at the grad parade.

For me life as an Arty officer; DP training does not prepare you for everything you will have to know how to do. Otherwise I love it :).

Assuming you can get loaded on a course, then yes you are absolutely correct.  The problem as it was explained to me by 11 FD, was that, they had over 5 new officers that required MOC training, however the unit was only being given one spot a year for candidates on the course, if that, meaning, you would have to wait 5 years just to get your qualification.  No qualification, no promotion.

Offline poiriernb

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2009, 13:41:30 »
I am joining as an artillery officer, and start BMOQ in September.  Is there anyone who can confirm the above information? Or is CAP just backed up because of the Afgan mission?

Offline Ralph

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2009, 15:05:52 »
Ltmaverick25 is talking about the reserves. Furtry is talking about the reg force. It's guavas and pineapples...

Offline poiriernb

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2009, 20:02:02 »
Perfect, cause I doubt I would wait 5 years to get on course, didn't make a lot of sense!

Offline ltmaverick25

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2009, 20:36:45 »
Correct, what I said pertains to reservists only.  I have no idea what the wait time if any is to get Arty O MOC training in the regs.

Good luck.

Offline jeffb

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Re: Life as an Artillery Officer
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2009, 01:03:27 »
I can comment on Reg Force training time as I'm currently in the process. I finished my BMOQ in April and am probably going on CAP at the end of September. If all goes well, we have been told to expect to be done DP 1.1 and 1.2 late next summer but it could be as late as next December depending on how the courses line up.
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Offline ltmaverick25

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Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2009, 15:41:36 »
I've been searching around looking for information about Artillery Officer career progression.  I have found a bit of information here and there but I am looking for something more comprehensive.

My questions pertain to what happens after CAP.

1.  How long is phase 3 and phase 4 training?
2.  Up to date version of what each phase comprises?
3.  At what point does one do FOO training?  What happens after FOO training?
4.  What is life like as a new reg force artillery officer fresh off of MOC training?
     a) daily routine?
     b) duties and responsibilities in garrion and the field?
     c) Approx how much time is spent in the field per year?

5.  What is the dynamic between new officers in the unit and the Capts and more senior officers?


Thanks in advance for the help!

Offline Black Knight

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2011, 17:02:23 »
I know this is an old topic but does anyone have any information on this??
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Offline Ralph

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2011, 09:18:45 »
In my experience:

1.  How long is phase 3 and phase 4 training?
3-ish months each

2.  Up to date version of what each phase comprises?
Don't know. They have been known to change. When I did it, Ph 3 (DP 1.1) was almost all recce and Ph 4 (DP 1.2) was command post, Safety, and more recce). But things might be different now.

3.  At what point does one do FOO training?  What happens after FOO training?
It depends. I'm sure all regiments want their junior officers to get as much gunline experience as possible before moving on to the OPs, but sometimes one doesn't get that chance. Now that deployments have settled down, pers usually have been around for a couple years before the course - but not always as a TC/TL/CPO/GPO. After you do your course, you become a FOO. Regiments were changed last year with the creation of an OP Battery for each and FOO parties are tasked out to gun btys or inf coys when req.

4.  What is life like as a new reg force artillery officer fresh off of MOC training?
   
There may be differences btwn regts, but generally when you're in garrison, it's PT fol by whatever the day holds, whether it be actual training or paperwork. Junior officers act as course officers throughout the year - you may be loaded onto various short courses yourself, given tasks to complete (organize events, conduct investigations, help plan exercises), and manage your troops with the help of your TSM. In the field, depending on your position, you'll be finding gun positions, running the command post, or ensuring the rounds are going to land where the FOO thinks they should. Regiments are getting back into longer regimental exercises now that Afghanistan is basically done, but you'll be lucky if you're out for three months total. That's not a lot, all things considered.

5.  What is the dynamic between new officers in the unit and the Capts and more senior officers?
The dynamic is whatever you wish it to be based on your ability to not be an idiot. For the most part, all officers captain and below work on a first-name basis (although some may wish that not to be the case). If you're the new guy, just remember that, for the first while, everyone knows more than you. You can learn something from everyone (even if it's to ensure you don't pattern yourself after them).

Ralph

Offline muskrat89

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #67 on: August 22, 2011, 18:48:28 »
Quote
The dynamic is whatever you wish it to be based on your ability to not be an idiot.

Thank you. Very well put.
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Offline Black Knight

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #68 on: September 03, 2011, 13:34:20 »
Awesome. Thanks for the info :)
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Offline Cardstonkid

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2011, 11:08:42 »
I know this reply is a bit late but I thought I would add:

Dp 1.1 is three months long. It now similar to the old Reserve Artillery officer program, in that it covers recce, CPO, GPO, and RSO duties. Reservist do this course with their Reg force peers. There is no real time on the Guns.

DP 1.2 is more survey, special procedures, quick actions etc. Reservists do not get this course unless they are lucky or going overseas. The course is 3 months long.



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Offline frank1515

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #70 on: October 31, 2011, 11:16:28 »
Can you expand a little more on the DP1.1 course, Cardstonkid? Is it ran in Mods, timelines etc.  The Technoviking has previously explained the IOPD1.1 course very well in an earlier post and I am looking for an Artillery version of his post.

Thanks in advance.
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Offline Cardstonkid

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #71 on: October 31, 2011, 15:58:41 »
I did the course in 2009. I understand it has not changed much since then.

The course is a high stress, fast learning environment. The stress comes from some "****" but mostly from the massive workload.

The course is done in mods. Each mod is two weeks long. It is designed this way so that a reservist can come and get a qualification and then leave. That being said, if my memory serves me well, each mod does not necessarily give you a qualification. I am not sure how the mods are organized now, but when I did the course it progressed from Recce O to GPO and Safety Officer, with all the positions in between.

So for example,

The first mod is recce. Here the candidate will become qualified on the T-16 and GLYPS survey equipment, learn to use the CP & FC board, conduct a recce as a recce TSM, Tech, and Recce O.

The Command Post Officer is another mod, but to do this a candidate must qualify as a CP Tech. This means passing the Manual Artillery Plotting System (MAPS) and the IFCCS (Indirect Fire Control Computer System). Each candidate will act as a Tech supervisor, Arty Sigs, then CPO while in the box being evaluated.

I will try to find the complete breakdown of the mods as they are taught, or at the very least how they were taught in 2009. I do know that MAPs and IFCCS was taught over a two week period. One week for each. (The reserve CP tech course is 4 weeks long, so this gives you an idea of how much is packed into two weeks.) The duties of a CPO are separate mod but I am not sure how it is divided out, since during the course it seemed like a progression of learning rather than a fixed start and end date.

I do know that if a person failed the recce mod in week two they could go through the counseling process to retake the tests and complete the qualification if they were staying on beyond the first two weeks of the course. However if the reservist fails this mod and they cannot stay longer to complete the re-testing process then they had to come back and retake the course from the beginning at another time.

For the reg force candidates the course is not really modular. They cannot pass everything but Recce and then come back a do that two week mod over again. They must complete the course in its entirety in order to progress, even if they had passed all but one of the mods.

I will see if I can find all of the mods and I will post it here as soon as I can. 

UBIQUE!

Offline Allgunzblazing

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #72 on: October 31, 2011, 16:40:08 »
Hello,

I have a couple of similar questions, if someone can please shed some light on these -

1. During Phase IV - does one get an opportunity to chose between becoming a Field Artillery Officer or an AD Officer? Or is there some sort of a selection done to determine suitability for either trades? (The recruiting website is not very clear about this - http://www.forces.ca/en/job/artilleryofficer-17#education-2).

2. Can Field Artillery Officers find themselves posted in an AD Regiment and vice-versa?

Thanks,

AGB.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 16:44:48 by Allgunzblazing »

Offline Cardstonkid

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #73 on: October 31, 2011, 17:52:24 »
All arty officers do the field training first. Then after DP1.2 you are assigned to Air Defense, SDA, etc.
UBIQUE!

Offline jeffb

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Re: Artillery Officer Career Progression
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2011, 18:49:38 »
All artillery officers are trained as field artillery officers. After DP1.2 some are selected for additional training and are employed in STA (Surveillance and Target Acquisition) or Air Defence. The likelihood of actually getting an AD course these days seems to be quite slim. My peers that were posted to 4AD as long ago as Aug 2010 still do not have their AD Troop Commander course and are not expecting to get it anytime soon if at all. As 4AD is lacking an AD capability at this time, it is not possible to run a AD TC course. Everyone I know that has gone to 4AD in the last 18 months or so has been sent on the STA TC course instead. I am not privy to what the plans for career progression are in the mid to long term however so all of this is subject to change.

There are examples of officers who are initially employed in an AD role that find themselves back in a field regiment although this is not common. STA qualified officers could conceivably serve at any of the Regiments.

The artillery is in a period of transformation these days though so do not get too wrapped around the axle about where you will serve with what qualifications. Depending on what rumours you believe, the above may be true 2 years from now or the career progression of officers may look dramatically different.
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