Author Topic: Special Relationship-The USA and the UK  (Read 6182 times)

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MAJOR_Baker

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Special Relationship-The USA and the UK
« on: February 12, 2004, 13:33:00 »
My wife and I were discussing the other day about the "Special" Realtionship between the UK and the US.   We both agreed that the UK has been our best ally since after the war of 1812.   The US did indeed help the UK and were their friend when they needed it!   

I have read a number of history books on the American Revolution and the Revolutionary War.   One theme that I found was that in the beginning there was not a lot of enthusiasim for a break with the England.   My ancestors have been traced through before the Revolutionary War back to Holland.   I have often wondered why they were Empire Loyalists instead of Rebel Colonialists?   IMO, most Colonialists would have rather had their ties to Europe remain strong rather than be broken.   I am guessing that is what motivated my Great, Great, Great, Great-Grandfather.

So why do some Europeans believe that Americans are less civilized than they are and we are rogues?   Could it be because we never had anyone storm the Bastille or had a 30 yrs war?   Or is it because we still have the death penalty?   Or is it because slavery was allowed to flourish during the colonial period?   Or could it be that they are jealous of what their cousins created?   A good question that I would like to find the answer to.   

I use to like Europe, having lived there 4+ yrs, I enjoyed the "culture" but I was not one of them nor did I aspire to be one either.   It seems to me that the realtionship between the US and the UK is stronger than CDN and US, but then again I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2004, 16:54:24 by Bruce Monkhouse »

Offline Padraig OCinnead

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2004, 14:59:00 »
It‘s been my experience (limited though it is) that most things not Euro are looked down upon by them. With several centuries head start on us North American colonials they may feel culturally superior perhaps.  I‘ll admit that there is very little comparision to many of their cities architecture, except maybe Old Quebec.

Jealous? Perhaps. I don‘t generalize when possible. Slavery is probably not specific to USA. The death penalty ? That is a good sticking point with them. But who had the gillotine? Or who quartered many prisonners on London Bridge?  

Why was there not much support for the break with England?  Was it loyalty or tradionnal ties? Or more economic?

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2004, 17:41:00 »
Strangely enough though you don‘t see British frigates intergrated with US CVBG, nor joint command structures like NORAD or a British officer as deputy commander of a US Corps. I think you underestimate the relationship between the US and Canada but then again we are use to it up here.  ;)
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2004, 19:22:00 »
Kinda hard to volunteer for a peacekeeping mission to Israel when the Israeli‘s don‘t want the UN there. As for divisions, corps etc you already know the answer for that. I was just pointing out that we still co-operate on a high level as well.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2004, 04:12:00 »
Any politcal problems will never replace the fact that the US and Canada posess a symbiotic relationship in a social and economic level unique throughout the world.

I think a new alliance of Canada, the US, Australia, and the UK...an Anglo alliance, would be beneficial for the deep cultural ties and common outlook.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline NMPeters

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2004, 08:19:00 »
We already have that. It‘s called ABCA (America, Britain, Canada, Australia). It‘s quite high level and they meet once or twice a year.

Offline NMPeters

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2004, 09:59:00 »
MAJ Baker

I‘m not all that familiar with the objective of ABCA but if you‘ll allow me a little time I‘ll do some research on it and try to enlighten us all.

To add to this, though, I do know that the Army Commander sees the joint relationship to be of great importance. This is the Commander‘s vision for the Army, which serves as a basis for the Army Strategy:

"The Army will generate, employ and sustain strategically relevant and tactically decisive medium-weight land forces, formations and units. Using progressive doctrine, realistic training and leading-edge technologies, the Army will be a knowledge-based and command-centric institution capable of continuous adaptation and task-tailoring across the spectrum of conflict. Cohesion and morale amongst our soldiers will be preserved through sharing a collective covenant of trust and common understanding of explicit and implicit intent. With selfless leadership and coherent management, the Army will achieve unity of effort and resource equilibrium. The Army will synchronise force development to achieve joint integration and combined interoperability with the ground forces of the US, ABCA countries and selected NATO allies. As a broadly-based representative national institution with a proud heritage, the Army will provide a disciplined force of last resort and contribute to national values and objectives at home and abroad."

Also, one of the 10-year targets within the Army Strategy is:

"Achieve interoperability with allies at NATO Degree 3 (Seamless Sharing of Data involving the automated sharing of data between systems based on common exchange mode) in the field of C3. Achieve appropriate and practicable joint integration and combined interoperability at brigade level with the forces of the U.S., other ABCA countries and selected NATO allies."

Offline Gunner

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2004, 19:54:00 »
Quote
 I‘m not all that familiar with the objective of ABCA but if you‘ll allow me a little time I‘ll do some research on it and try to enlighten us all.
Nancy, et al.  ABCA stands for America, Britain, Canada and Australia and works toward interoperability amongst the key English speaking countries.
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline Gunner

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2004, 19:56:00 »
Very good (and recent) article on ABCA.

 ABCA
Had a wonderful ~26 years in the military and still miss it.

Offline NMPeters

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2004, 09:55:00 »
Well there ya go. Thanks for saving me some time.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2004, 11:57:00 »
Good article thanks for posting it.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2004, 16:23:00 »
Excellent article, sir.

Now, it would be better to see the ABCA (I think America, Britain, Canada, and ANZAC would be a little more approriate) be formed into doctrine instead of just political lip-service in the next White Paper.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline FUBAR(Banned)

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2004, 18:36:00 »
In Europe houses are actually made out of brick and laid on concrete foundations.
"If you‘re so innocent, than why won‘t you admit, that you‘re not?"

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Special Relationship
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2004, 15:19:00 »
Quote
In Europe houses are actually made out of brick and laid on concrete foundations.
EDIT
I started out with a mod warning, but realized you are offering up something metaphorical.

Care to clarify.
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr