Author Topic: Desert Boots  (Read 164173 times)

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Offline NL_engineer

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #150 on: December 25, 2008, 17:23:37 »
Advantages and disadvantages of boots vs a "hiker"/shoe maybe something worth looking at in an Army where the boot is considered part of the service culture....

It would be harder to blouse a 4-6" hiker then a 8" boot, and you know you have to have your boots bloused at all times  ::).

I know it would more likely be better in the field; but the people making the decisions are more worried about uniformity not functionality  ::).
Note to any Taliban and AQ personnel on the Form:  ALL SUICIDE VESTS AND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES MUST BE TESTED TO INSURE THEY WORK BEFORE GOING AFTER A TARGET.

This is a measure to save any embarrassment that may occur when your explosive device, does not function as it is intended to.

It has come to my attention that these measures are not being followed, so for all Taliban; please refer to the above.

Thank you for your cooperation

Offline KevinB

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #151 on: December 25, 2008, 19:04:49 »
I think boots can have their place - especially when carrying heavy loads over uneven terrain.  However that 'skill' is quickly becoming unneeded, with aerial ressuply and short mission timelines (realistic understandings of what capacity the soldier can function over), and more focus on urban operations.

A lot of SOF units are wearing shoe type footwear to excellent effect, and when you need to run down an insurgent in a foot chase - a large cloddhopper boot is doing you no favors.

  In the last three years I have worn a variety of footwear and while I'm not rucking anywhere - and as of last week, other than some shooting courses I ride a desk - I have been all jocked up in gear, and the shoe has treated me best.
Kevin S. Boland
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FN America, LLC
Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 703-244-1758  | Fax: 703.288.4505
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Offline reveng

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #152 on: December 25, 2008, 21:45:31 »
Never mess with the guys wearing the hiking shoes and north face jackets lol.

Offline KevinB

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #153 on: December 25, 2008, 22:32:48 »
Never mess with the guys wearing the hiking shoes and north face jackets lol.

Oakley's and goatees too...

Kevin S. Boland
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Offline YYC Retired

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #154 on: December 26, 2008, 15:26:59 »
I think boots can have their place - especially when carrying heavy loads over uneven terrain.  However that 'skill' is quickly becoming unneeded, with aerial ressuply and short mission timelines (realistic understandings of what capacity the soldier can function over), and more focus on urban operations.

A lot of SOF units are wearing shoe type footwear to excellent effect, and when you need to run down an insurgent in a foot chase - a large cloddhopper boot is doing you no favors.

  In the last three years I have worn a variety of footwear and while I'm not rucking anywhere - and as of last week, other than some shooting courses I ride a desk - I have been all jocked up in gear, and the shoe has treated me best.

What type of footwear have you found to handle the workload best and which ones would you steer away from???

Offline Devlin

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #155 on: December 26, 2008, 16:04:42 »
Has anyone tried the Oakley combat boots? They appear to be shoe-like in their design, not sure if they are actually any good or just more gucci kit...

Link below for reference:
http://oakley.ca/pd/4299/14014


Offline KevinB

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #156 on: December 26, 2008, 21:27:28 »
I've worn the Oakley Assault Boot, Assault Shoe, Oakley Flak Low (shoe, now discontinued), Oakley  Salomon Expert Mid (now discontinued) Danner Aggitator (now discontinued) Merrell MOAB's - other guys have had great reports with the Merrell Sawtooth's - both of them are still in production.

I am not the biggest fan of the Oakley boot - the sole was too firm for what I wanted, and hated the Assault shoe (due to color - black - I was in Iraq, and two the sole sucked too) 
  I have two other sets of Oakley shoes that are discontinued and I enjoed them as well.

Kevin S. Boland
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FN America, LLC
Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 703-244-1758  | Fax: 703.288.4505
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Offline Dingle berry

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #157 on: December 26, 2008, 21:35:14 »
Best boots I ever had were Asolos, I've had 2 pairs and they were amazing.

Offline KevinB

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #158 on: December 26, 2008, 21:39:24 »
If you want boots -- hanwag's
Kevin S. Boland
Manager, Federal Sales
FN America, LLC
Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 703-244-1758  | Fax: 703.288.4505
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Offline YYC Retired

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #159 on: December 26, 2008, 23:32:06 »
Thanks for the feedback I-6.... always good to get up to date reviews on useful kit that actually works....

Stay Safe

Offline BinRat55

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #160 on: December 27, 2008, 13:30:34 »
If you want boots -- hanwag's clothing stores...

No, really - you are not authorized to wear any other boot while in uniform (some exceptions apply - but not many...)
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline NL_engineer

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #161 on: December 27, 2008, 14:35:23 »
No, really - you are not authorized to wear any other boot while in uniform (some exceptions apply - but not many...)

Well the issued desert boots must be the best, when your COC recommend that we invest in better desert boots  ::)
Note to any Taliban and AQ personnel on the Form:  ALL SUICIDE VESTS AND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES MUST BE TESTED TO INSURE THEY WORK BEFORE GOING AFTER A TARGET.

This is a measure to save any embarrassment that may occur when your explosive device, does not function as it is intended to.

It has come to my attention that these measures are not being followed, so for all Taliban; please refer to the above.

Thank you for your cooperation

Offline KevinB

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #162 on: December 27, 2008, 16:18:41 »
No, really - you are not authorized to wear any other boot while in uniform (some exceptions apply - but not many...)

I think I spent more than 7 years in the CF wearing non issue boots, but I appreciate your comments  ::)
Kevin S. Boland
Manager, Federal Sales
FN America, LLC
Office: 703.288.3500 x181 | Mobile: 703-244-1758  | Fax: 703.288.4505
www.fnhusa.com

Offline NL_engineer

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #163 on: December 27, 2008, 16:38:51 »
If you want boots -- hanwag's

What kind of desert boot would you recommend (they have to be at least 8"high to keep the COC happy) ?
Note to any Taliban and AQ personnel on the Form:  ALL SUICIDE VESTS AND EXPLOSIVE DEVICES MUST BE TESTED TO INSURE THEY WORK BEFORE GOING AFTER A TARGET.

This is a measure to save any embarrassment that may occur when your explosive device, does not function as it is intended to.

It has come to my attention that these measures are not being followed, so for all Taliban; please refer to the above.

Thank you for your cooperation

Offline Infanteer

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #164 on: December 28, 2008, 00:15:26 »
No, really - you are not authorized to wear any other boot while in uniform (some exceptions apply - but not many...)

 ::)

You obviously haven't been to my part of the Army....
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline BinRat55

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #165 on: December 28, 2008, 09:18:27 »
::)

You obviously haven't been to my part of the Army....

Lol - and what part would that be?
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline BinRat55

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #166 on: December 28, 2008, 09:24:28 »
I think I spent more than 7 years in the CF wearing non issue boots, but I appreciate your comments  ::)

And I think i've spent 20 following orders and enforcing regs - so my comments are valid, but thanks for your appreciation.
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #167 on: December 28, 2008, 09:47:53 »
And I think i've spent 20 following orders and enforcing regs - so my comments are valid, but thanks for your appreciation.


With all possible respect, BinRat55 you are in danger of being seen as that mule about which Fredrick the Great mused when he said:

"A mule who has carried a pack for ten campaigns under Prince Eugene will be no better tactician for it, and it must be confessed, to the disgrace of humanity, that many men grow old in an otherwise respectable profession without making any greater progress than this mule.

To follow the routine of the service, to become occupied with the care of its fodder and lodging, to march when the army marches, camp when it camps, fight when it fights--for the great majority of officers this is what is meant by having served, campaigned, grown gray in the harness. For this reason one sees so many soldiers occupied with trifling matters and rusted by gross ignorance. Instead of soaring audaciously among the clouds, such men know only how to crawl methodically in the mire. They are never perplexed and will never know the causes of their triumphs or defeats."
(Source: Luvaas (ed) "Frederick the Great on the Art of War," New York, 1966, p. 47)

In my military experience, approaching 40 years, soldiers have always tried to make themselves more effective, more efficient and more comfortable - despite the good, not so good and too often crumby equipment on issue. My guess is that most of them want to and will continue to do so - despite whole bloody bookcases full of "orders and regs," the bulk of which are, thankfully, never read (much less enforced) by anyone at all.

There are some good reasons for enforcing some equipment standards, including some standards for some personal kit. There are, also, some good reasons for ignoring the best ideas/wishes of officialdom and adapting whatever is available to the task at hand. Sadly it falls, mostly, to the infantryman - far away from a warm, dry, regulation filled, fixed base - to be the one who must do the adapting. Perhaps, on reflection, it's not so sad; perhaps what's sad is that so many people - with no dog in the fight - want to complicate (unnecessarily) his already difficult, dangerous, dirty and uncomfortable life.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline BinRat55

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #168 on: December 28, 2008, 10:22:01 »
Mr. Campbell,

While your words are quite eloquent and your quotes are sharp, you and I have had this discussion before. I've no wish to stand toe to toe with a man of your experience - but hear this - 40 years ago the army was a different time. Even 20 years ago we were a different sort of beast. Today shows a style of adaptation the likes of which you and I have never seen before. But it don't change the fact that rules are in place for a reason. No one person, myself included, will ever agree to all of them, but everyone who signs on that dotted line, myself included, will follow them. There is a right way and a wrong way to question authority and in your day when authority was questioned people were shot. Today they are rewarded and it makes me ill.

I do have a dog in the fight - actually I have two dogs - and they wear issued boots.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 10:28:47 by BinRat55 »
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline BulletMagnet

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Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #169 on: December 28, 2008, 10:36:03 »
Perhaps he does not...

But I do

There is maybe a reason that individuals and units on a whole have moved past the issue only system. The major reason is perhaps the simplest ISSUE boots do not work! Yes you can over time force the feet to adapt to them like they did in the "Good Ole Days of the Army" which is JUNK!

Why do SOF units not enforce the issue boots? and I will trump this card now it's not LCF or the need to be different it's because they allow their troops to investigate the boots or shoe that works best for them and makes them more comfortable and effective. The grand high mucky mucks of the CF (You know those guys that have been in for 30+ years and who lord their cubicle as their own universe) loathe the idea that their little world can be shattered and their usefulness erased by some Cpl in line unit saying "Are you nuts these blisters tell me this isn't going to work" and lo and behold the MO agreed!

There is also the CANFORGEN which states at CO discretion that a soldier can wear boots of any type so long as they are 8" in ankle length and black and bought at the soldiers expense....
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #170 on: December 28, 2008, 10:58:18 »
Mr. Campbell,

While your words are quite eloquent and your quotes are sharp, you and I have had this discussion before. I've no wish to stand toe to toe with a man of your experience - but hear this - 40 years ago the army was a different time. Even 20 years ago we were a different sort of beast. Today shows a style of adaptation the likes of which you and I have never seen before. But it don't change the fact that rules are in place for a reason. No one person, myself included, will ever agree to all of them, but everyone who signs on that dotted line, myself included, will follow them. There is a right way and a wrong way to question authority and in your day when authority was questioned people were shot. Today they are rewarded and it makes me ill.

I do have a dog in the fight - actually I have two dogs - and they wear issued boots.


With, yet again, all possible respect, BinRat55, I guess I do, too, have a “dog in the fight:” my son is serving and his situation is often uncomfortable, cold, wet and dangerous – frequently dangerous when there is no enemy present.

Even though I have been long retired and even though my son doesn’t complain to me, I am certain that his life is also unduly complicated by the (only occasional, to be sure) mindless enforcement of ill-considered, often out of date, “orders and regs” – some of which may do more than just increase his discomfort. Fortunately he is in a part of the CF that understands the vast difference between “orders” and “regulations” and, further, understands that, on rare occasions, the former must be interpreted and that, usually, the latter are, really, guidance to help sensible commanders get their jobs done in the most effective, efficient and even comfortable manner possible.

Secondly, the army has not changed all that much in nearly a half century. Soldiers are, to be sure, much better equipped that we were – even though some soldiers have scant regard for the utility of some of their equipment. But the fact is that the army has always recognized that none of its kit was or is perfect – that’s why there exists, even today, a system for soldiers to report deficiencies and to recommend changes. Some soldiers are a bit quicker to see the need for change than is the system and many of them are a wee bit impatient – especially when their comfort, their combat effectiveness and even their very lives may be at risk.

I’m sure it is frustrating to see so many soldiers putting aside expensive, thoroughly tested and approved kit in favour of something that may well be or may just appear to be flavour of the month. But that doesn’t mean that the “so many” are all wrong, all the time.

We should all be a bit flexible in our thinking – especially when we are thinking of the people at the sharp end: on ships, in FOBs and in aircraft.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 11:01:16 by E.R. Campbell »
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Spandrel

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #171 on: December 28, 2008, 11:19:06 »
X
« Last Edit: June 15, 2009, 18:21:57 by CSA 105 »

Offline BinRat55

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Re: Desert boots (from: Quick Snap)
« Reply #172 on: December 28, 2008, 11:33:44 »
Perhaps he does not...

But I do

There is maybe a reason that individuals and units on a whole have moved past the issue only system. The major reason is perhaps the simplest ISSUE boots do not work! Yes you can over time force the feet to adapt to them like they did in the "Good Ole Days of the Army" which is JUNK!

Why do SOF units not enforce the issue boots? and I will trump this card now it's not LCF or the need to be different it's because they allow their troops to investigate the boots or shoe that works best for them and makes them more comfortable and effective. The grand high mucky mucks of the CF (You know those guys that have been in for 30+ years and who lord their cubicle as their own universe) loathe the idea that their little world can be shattered and their usefulness erased by some Cpl in line unit saying "Are you nuts these blisters tell me this isn't going to work" and lo and behold the MO agreed!

There is also the CANFORGEN which states at CO discretion that a soldier can wear boots of any type so long as they are 8" in ankle length and black and bought at the soldiers expense....

Can you point me in the direction of this CANFORGEN??
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline BinRat55

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #173 on: December 28, 2008, 11:48:38 »
That's how I take this sort of thing.  Regulations and policies exist to assist and guide the Commander in exercising his perogative and following his orders to accomplish the mission.

Too many people forget that - I remember previous excellent posts you made about the differences in 'staff-centric' vs 'command-centric' organizations.  While we claim to be "command-centric" I fear that in most cases, the CF is only paying lip service and whitewashing over a very strong bureaucratically-minded staff-focused system where "I can't do anything to help, it's the system" and "well, the CO can't authorize that, there's a policy right here..." etc etc.

Sometimes policies and regulations are wrong and hinder the Commander's efforts.

I will be the first person to say yes when I can. I have been there and have issued to the finest soldiers in theatre - and not once has a soldier "needed" something on my watch if I had it - scales do not mean much to me overseas. I am 100% behind Vern for the proverbial "Boot allowance". But all i'm trying to say is that soldiers should not be going out and buying their own uniforms - boots included. The system will never change for the better and pretty soon even verbal orders will be taken as "suggestions".

I'm as frustrated with the supply system as the next person, but we are doing better. You all ask us to walk in your shoes for a bit, but no one wants to get behind the counter and do the work to improve the system, do they? I may not have ever been on a front line, but I have done my time in four different countries - in and outside the wire - and can tell you that we need a better supply system AND an attitude adjustment.
Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake - Napoleon Bonaparte

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Desert Boots
« Reply #174 on: December 28, 2008, 11:48:46 »
REF: Canadian Forces Supply Manual Vol 3, Ch 13, Sec G, Art 002, para5e. (CFSM 3-13G-002.5e)

e.   Individuals whose foot size falls within the range of standard catalogue sizes and who do not accept the service footwear shall be advised to obtain footwear from other sources at their own expense. To ensure uniformity and quality of dress, CF personnel shall select commercial footwear that conforms as closely as possible to the standards of the regulation footwear.  
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

When the going gets tough I take a nap...It's easier that way