Author Topic: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]  (Read 250322 times)

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Offline LogOLife

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #300 on: February 17, 2018, 14:09:10 »
I am an AHOD right now and am more than willing to assist here. If you have any amplifying questions then let me know.

Coursing takes place at CFB Borden, generally starting around 1 June and wrapping up early December (with a break in the middle for about 6 weeks where you return to your home unit). During the time in Borden the courses are split up into Logistics Officer Course Common, Logistics Officer Course Sea, and the Supply and Finance specialty courses. The exact length of the courses has changed since I was there 3 years ago, but it takes roughly 6-7 months to complete those courses.

After completing these courses, Sea Logistics Officers reach their Occupational Functional Point and are employed in either Esquimalt or Halifax. Depending on the backlog to get an AHOD this can be up to 18 months. The wait time is getting better as we are now doubling up AHODs on the ships. The AHOD is one year long and finishes with the ALGA board (HOD Qualification) after which one could either remain on the coast or get posted inland. This could mean going to Borden to teach, Ottawa to work in Naval Staff, ADM (ABCDEF...) or in the Joint world or any other spot a Naval Logistician is needed.

Depending on succession planning you may or may not get selected for a HOD tour a few years later.

WRT promotions... first year as a commissioned officer will be as A/SLt, then 2 years as a SLt and then promoted to Lt(N). There is no requirement beyond time in rank and completing the coursing in order to get promoted.

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #301 on: February 17, 2018, 14:19:46 »
I heard a rumour that some of the surplus junior LogOs might be posted to the NAVRES HMCS units as AdminOs.
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Offline LogOLife

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #302 on: February 17, 2018, 14:58:06 »
I heard a rumour that some of the surplus junior LogOs might be posted to the NAVRES HMCS units as AdminOs.

As far as I know those will mostly be post-AHOD Lt(N)s, but I could be wrong.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #303 on: February 17, 2018, 15:15:03 »
Makes sense to me. It would be refreshing to have a full time LogO as my AdminO.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline MasterInstructor

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #304 on: February 17, 2018, 16:27:06 »
I am an AHOD right now and am more than willing to assist here. If you have any amplifying questions then let me know.

Coursing takes place at CFB Borden, generally starting around 1 June and wrapping up early December (with a break in the middle for about 6 weeks where you return to your home unit). During the time in Borden the courses are split up into Logistics Officer Course Common, Logistics Officer Course Sea, and the Supply and Finance specialty courses. The exact length of the courses has changed since I was there 3 years ago, but it takes roughly 6-7 months to complete those courses.

After completing these courses, Sea Logistics Officers reach their Occupational Functional Point and are employed in either Esquimalt or Halifax. Depending on the backlog to get an AHOD this can be up to 18 months. The wait time is getting better as we are now doubling up AHODs on the ships. The AHOD is one year long and finishes with the ALGA board (HOD Qualification) after which one could either remain on the coast or get posted inland. This could mean going to Borden to teach, Ottawa to work in Naval Staff, ADM (ABCDEF...) or in the Joint world or any other spot a Naval Logistician is needed.

Depending on succession planning you may or may not get selected for a HOD tour a few years later.

WRT promotions... first year as a commissioned officer will be as A/SLt, then 2 years as a SLt and then promoted to Lt(N). There is no requirement beyond time in rank and completing the coursing in order to get promoted.

Thanks so much! Exactly what I was looking for. 3 years to Lt(N), that is great. I am not sure if I will make it for June 19 but for June 20 for sure. I am a NCM (Based in Esquimalt) with 8 years in. Have been trying UTPNCM with no luck. We will see what happens this year. If unsuccessful, I have LWOP coming up to finish my Economics degree and I will graduate in December 18. I will look at different options at that point. Even if I have to wait till June 20, that will give me lots of time to work on a MBA as well as CPA courses. That is the direction I want to go. If you have suggestions, please let me know :)

Offline Lumber

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #305 on: February 18, 2018, 01:35:37 »
Makes sense to me. It would be refreshing to have a full time LogO as my AdminO.

Hey now what are saying? NWOs can't hack it in the job?  :threat:
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Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #306 on: February 18, 2018, 07:20:15 »
More like they shouldn't have to.
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. (H.L. Mencken 1919)
Zero tolerance is the politics of the lazy. All it requires is that you do nothing and ban everything.

Offline Lumber

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #307 on: February 18, 2018, 11:04:52 »
More like they shouldn't have to.

Oh, well, in that case, I'm quite looking forward to meeting my LogO replacement. :nod:
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
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Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #308 on: February 18, 2018, 11:48:21 »
Hey now what are saying? NWOs can't hack it in the job?  :threat:

Do NAVRES units still have NWOs doing the Admin function, when there's...wait a minute...an entire trade dedicated to stuff like that?   ???
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Lumber

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #309 on: February 18, 2018, 12:30:55 »
Do NAVRES units still have NWOs doing the Admin function, when there's...wait a minute...an entire trade dedicated to stuff like that?   ???

Perhaps given that the CO and XO and Class-A, someone at NAVRES thought they needed to employ those with superior leadership skills...  ;)
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline Pusser

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #310 on: February 19, 2018, 10:13:22 »
Another interesting option for Naval Logistics Officers (preferably post-AHOD) is to become an Ammunition Technical Officer.  It can be a real blast!
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Offline secondchance

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #311 on: May 30, 2018, 13:01:44 »
Hello,
I tried to find information concerning Log O(Air Force) , but I couldn't. Are there folks who graduated recently ?
As I learnt from this topic there are 3 steps in Log O (Air Force) training. I need to know the details how it was.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


Online RomeoJuliet

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #312 on: May 30, 2018, 17:45:25 »
I am an AHOD right now and am more than willing to assist here. If you have any amplifying questions then let me know.

Coursing takes place at CFB Borden, generally starting around 1 June and wrapping up early December (with a break in the middle for about 6 weeks where you return to your home unit). During the time in Borden the courses are split up into Logistics Officer Course Common, Logistics Officer Course Sea, and the Supply and Finance specialty courses. The exact length of the courses has changed since I was there 3 years ago, but it takes roughly 6-7 months to complete those courses.

After completing these courses, Sea Logistics Officers reach their Occupational Functional Point and are employed in either Esquimalt or Halifax. Depending on the backlog to get an AHOD this can be up to 18 months. The wait time is getting better as we are now doubling up AHODs on the ships. The AHOD is one year long and finishes with the ALGA board (HOD Qualification) after which one could either remain on the coast or get posted inland. This could mean going to Borden to teach, Ottawa to work in Naval Staff, ADM (ABCDEF...) or in the Joint world or any other spot a Naval Logistician is needed.

Depending on succession planning you may or may not get selected for a HOD tour a few years later.

WRT promotions... first year as a commissioned officer will be as A/SLt, then 2 years as a SLt and then promoted to Lt(N). There is no requirement beyond time in rank and completing the coursing in order to get promoted.

Do you know how long the LogO courses for Army PRes are?  ex. June 1st-?

Offline Pusser

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #313 on: May 31, 2018, 11:06:49 »
Hello,
I tried to find information concerning Log O(Air Force) , but I couldn't. Are there folks who graduated recently ?
As I learnt from this topic there are 3 steps in Log O (Air Force) training. I need to know the details how it was.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

If I recall correctly, they are:

1)  Phase 1:  Sleep Deprivation - How to get by on only 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night.

2)  Phase 2:  Dress and Deportment - How to look cool in a leather "flight" jacket that you're not allowed to wear while flying

3)  Phase 3:  Hotel Selection - Why four stars are insufficient for operational requirements
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Offline FSTO

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #314 on: May 31, 2018, 11:26:32 »
If I recall correctly, they are:

1)  Phase 1:  Sleep Deprivation - How to get by on only 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night.

2)  Phase 2:  Dress and Deportment - How to look cool in a leather "flight" jacket that you're not allowed to wear while flying

3)  Phase 3:  Hotel Selection - Why four stars are insufficient for operational requirements
Don't forget that no chocolate mint on the hotel pillow is a basis for a grievance!

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #315 on: May 31, 2018, 11:44:10 »
If I recall correctly, they are:

1)  Phase 1:  Sleep Deprivation - How to get by on only 10 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night.

That does sound challenging.  :orly:

Quote
2)  Phase 2:  Dress and Deportment - How to look cool in a leather "flight" jacket that you're not allowed to wear while flying

LogO could wear the RCAF Leather jacket on flights, they wouldn't be in a crew position.   8)  Bring on the PAX LCF!

Quote
3)  Phase 3:  Hotel Selection - Why four stars are insufficient for operational requirements

Ya!  See? Some people get it. 

Don't forget that no chocolate mint on the hotel pillow is a basis for a grievance!

A grievance is so much paperwork and effort and...stuff...though.  It's much simplier to just go with a good 'ol fashion temper tantrum...

 :tempertantrum:


 ;D
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 11:46:59 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline jsilver18

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #316 on: June 02, 2018, 23:08:51 »
Hey! So I recently got accepted into the Logistics Officer(Air) trade through the UTP-NCM program and I was wondering if anyone out there is familiar with how you choose a field/specialty to work in? I understand that there are many places LogO's can be employed including Finance, HR, Supply, Air Movements, Food, Transport etc. Do new LogO's get to choose where they would like to focus their attention or is it just a general pool that you get placed in different positions throughout your career in different specialties?

Offline kratz

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #317 on: June 03, 2018, 05:17:00 »
You're right. If you follow the Air stream, as a LogO, you'll travel allot. Be ready to allow for tight quarters. If you're getting prepared for your course, brush up on your use of Chrome.  :rofl:
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Offline LogOLife

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #318 on: June 03, 2018, 05:20:53 »
Hey! So I recently got accepted into the Logistics Officer(Air) trade through the UTP-NCM program and I was wondering if anyone out there is familiar with how you choose a field/specialty to work in? I understand that there are many places LogO's can be employed including Finance, HR, Supply, Air Movements, Food, Transport etc. Do new LogO's get to choose where they would like to focus their attention or is it just a general pool that you get placed in different positions throughout your career in different specialties?

If I recall correctly, my army and air force colleagues selected their specialty course during Logistics Officer Course (Common) while in Borden. You will have your pick of Finance, HR, Supply (and maybe one more that I am forgetting before my first coffee). Movements and Foods are further sub-specialities that you can take after completing your initial specialty. I don't recall anything about Transport to be honest.

Offline H11F

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #319 on: August 10, 2018, 15:00:19 »
A question about LogO training, employability, promotions and EPZs.

As I had it explained, a LogO reaches OFP after their elemental LOC. So, for an Army officer, after LOC(L) they reach OFP. Is this correct? The conflict of information comes from this: Staff at CFLTC are saying that upon completing LOC(L), LogOs are employable, and promotable. The home unit is stating that promotion only occurs after the specialty course. Can anyone shed light on who is correct? No one has been provided information WRT specialty courses at this time though it seems not everyone will be loaded onto their specialty during this run of courses and will have to do it later.

No critique of the system either way, just trying to get some information with something backing it. It would seem to me that if someone reaches OFP they are then capable of being promoted (assuming they have entered their EPZ)

H11F

Edit: I'm not on DWAN at the moment... so DPGR is hard to reach
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 15:08:58 by H11F »

Offline Pusser

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #320 on: August 13, 2018, 17:03:38 »

Edit: I'm not on DWAN at the moment... so DPGR is hard to reach

Not sure that the Director Personnel Generation Requirements will be of much help to you. They have nothing to do with the questions you are asking
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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #321 on: August 13, 2018, 17:13:25 »
Not sure that the Director Personnel Generation Requirements will be of much help to you. They have nothing to do with the questions you are asking

DPGR holds the Occupational Specifications for all CAF occupations, and thus has the answer to the question being asked about OFP.
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Offline H11F

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #322 on: August 13, 2018, 19:29:09 »
DPGR holds the Occupational Specifications for all CAF occupations, and thus has the answer to the question being asked about OFP.

Ack. And I was actually able to get my hands on the document. I should have edited my post to say such.

H11F.

Offline Pusser

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #323 on: August 24, 2018, 12:01:02 »
DPGR holds the Occupational Specifications for all CAF occupations, and thus has the answer to the question being asked about OFP.

Not generally.  They only have the specs on the occupations they are currently studying and they get them from the occupation managers.  At least that was how we did it when I worked there.
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: Logistics Officer - Sea [Merged]
« Reply #324 on: May 02, 2019, 12:11:27 »
This could be very useful:

Quote
NAVORD 4500-1

Naval Orders (NAVORD) – Naval Logistics Officer Qualifications and Career Progression


1. Identification


Date of Issue: 10 October 2018

Date of Modification: Nil

Application: This order applies to members of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) of the Naval Logistics Officer (NLO 00328-04) occupation.

Supersession: This NAVORD supersedes MARCORD 9-07 Volume 1

Approval Authority: This Naval Order (NAVORD) is issued by the Commander Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) under the authority of QR&O 4.12.

Enquiries: Director Naval Logistics


2. Abbreviations

CTO: Course Training Officer
HOD: Head of Department
JBOS: Job Based Occupation Specification
NLO: Naval Logistics Officer
OFP: Operational Functional Point
OJT: On-the-Job Training


3. General

3.1 Naval Logistics Officer (NLO) JBOS


The Job Based Occupation Specification for Logistics Officers details the job requirements for the Logistics Officer Occupation in general. It also contains the specific shipboard requirements for a Head of Department (HOD) at sea and employment within the RCN. The document also defines competencies required by other environments and Joint and Corporate positions.

3.2 Amplification

This NAVORD delineates the ideal NLO development model along with the objectives and expectations of a NLO during their career. The order establishes the standards that will ensure that the occupation is both effective and credible. The RCN standard for Logisticians is the HOD qualification (Occupation Specialty Qualification – ALGA).


4. Responsibilities

4.1 Authorities / OFP


The NLO HOD Training Authority (TA) is Military Personnel Generation (MPG) and the Managing Authority (MA) is Military Personnel Generation Training Group (MPGTG). D Nav Log maintains the standard for NLOs and the HOD qualification training. D Nav Log is also the granting authority for the HOD qualification, which is delegated to coastal N4s or other suitable Cdrs as required.

The OFP for Reg F NLOs is the successful completion of the Naval Logistics Officer – Ashore (ALFZ) training along with two Primary Logistics Function courses; Supply Chain Management (AJSI) and Financial Services (ALGB).


5. Discussion

5.1 Effect at Sea


Achieving effect at sea forms the basis of the NLO development model. The demanding operational challenge of service at sea and supporting deployed force elements from ashore, represents a unique opportunity to form a solid baseline level of leadership, knowledge and skillset that will serve NLOs long into their career no matter where they are employed. For this reason, the selection of NLO’s most senior leaders will always be based on possessing this baseline knowledge and skillset.

The ability to be effective at the tactical level within the naval environment is paramount. A potential NLO must be:

- Capable of leading the execution of sustainment activities in operations;
- Accountable for the functions for which they are responsible; and
- Demonstrate the ability to lead sailors.

Owing to the requirement to perform in joint operations and external institutional leadership positions within other Commands, the input of an experienced, trained NLO is invaluable. NLOs add value in the joint environment because of sound naval experience. The baseline requirements for success as a NLO will be formed and moulded during a NLO’s training at sea and solidified through attaining the HOD qualification.

5.2 Initial Training and Employment

NLOs will receive their initial training at the Canadian Forces Leadership and Training Center (CFLTC). Upon completion of common core and environmental specific logistics training at CFLTC, NLOs will be posted to either coast and, under optimal circumstances, immediately begin their HOD qualification training.


6. Junior Officer Management

6.1 Training File Documentation

The Formation NLO Course Training Officer (CTO) within the N4 organization will initiate and routinely update a training file on each NLO. The training file must contain all relevant training information documentation and progress reports raised or written on the respective NLO.

This file will remain active until the NLO becomes HOD qualified or has ceased HOD training. Throughout this development phase, supervisors will have access to the training file. Once a NLO has completed HOD training, the completed file shall be sent to D Nav Log to be held with other training documentation for future reference in the selection process for HOD employment.

The file shall contain any and all documentation related to training and progression to include, but not be limited to:

a. Personnel Development Reviews (PDRs);
b. Course reports for all training undertaken including non-logistics training (Logistics Officer Common courses, CAFJODs, NWO II);
c. ALGA Candidate Training Plan (Appendix 1);
d. Completed OJPR Training Package (Appendix 2);
e. Assessment reports and letters (Appendix 3);
f. CO’s letter of recommendation (Appendix 4);
g. ALGA Pre-Board assessment and notes;
h. ALGA Qualification Board Course Report; and
i. Training Review Board (TRB) reports (if applicable).

6.2 HOD Training Candidate Selection

D Nav Log is the authority for HOD candidate employment and succession management. Coastal N4s are delegated responsibility for the management of HOD qualification candidate selection. At all times, HOD qualification training is to commence as soon as possible after obtaining OFP.

6.3 HOD Qualification

Specific administrative processes related to HOD training, from reporting and initial training plan, to quarterly training reports and the Commanding Officer’s letter of recommendation, are contained in Annex A – HOD Candidate Administration.

Candidates are to be prepared to challenge the HOD qualification board and be awarded the HOD qualification within 12 months of beginning their training. Any deviation from the training plan due to factors such as ship’s schedule, deployment and number of days at sea, may be granted with the consent of D Nav Log.

HOD training and subsequent HOD qualification is the baseline standard. The qualification ensures that a NLO possesses the necessary core competencies to perform and provide support in a deployed naval environment. Failure to obtain the HOD qualification will limit the NLO’s future employment.

6.4 Post HOD Qualification Employment

NLOs who have completed HOD qualification training and successfully challenged the HOD qualification board will be posted to a position in accordance with the exigencies of the service. NLOs should be prepared to be posted away from their respective coasts after completing their requisite training to increase their breadth of experience and apply their skillsets. They will then compete with all other HOD qualified junior NLOs for selection as a Ship’s Logistics Officer.


7. NLO Succession Management

7.1 Overview


The aim of NLO succession management is to ensure effective long term naval sustainment by maintaining adequate production of competent NLOs at each rank. This aim is accomplished by assessing the potential of NLOs for more senior appointments. The assessment will ensure that NLOs receive the appropriate developmental experiences and prepares them to perform in strategic, operational and tactical positions. It is a career management tool to administer NLO selection, progression and professional development.

7.2 HOD Selection

D Nav Log is the authority for HOD selection. D Nav Log will convene a selection board during the Autumn timeframe. This board comparatively assesses candidates based on performance and potential in accordance with an approved D Nav Log scoring criteria (SCRIT). Candidates are subsequently appointed to key leadership positions in support of naval operations based on the results.

7.3 Command / Key Positions

D Nav Log is the recommending authority for Command and key RCN NLO positions. In order to maximize flexibility in occupation management, D Nav Log will convene LCdr and Cdr succession boards, to determine and select those candidates who have best demonstrated the potential for future success in demanding leadership positions. D Nav Log is the approval authority for the SCRIT used to produce selection lists.

Succession management is a key process for the development of NLOs, and is a means of ensuring the needs of the RCN and CAF are met. Although an officer can request to be removed from the succession management process, they may still be posted into a HOD/Command position to meet the exigencies of the service if required.

7.4 Declining an Appointment

Declining a position without substantiation constitutes a rejection of leadership responsibilities and negatively impacts an individual’s potential in comparison with their peers who are willing to serve. Declining such an appointment must be made in writing through the member’s CoC to the Career Manager with D Nav Log as an info addressee. This action will result in the officer removing themselves from future succession planning and career courses until such time he/she formally requests, in writing, to be considered once again. Deferral or declining positions will be filed in PERMIS and will be made available to future succession and selection boards.

It is understood that during certain periods, an officer may be subject to temporary impediments in undertaking command or key appointments. In such instances, officers are encouraged to identify their restrictions through normal administrative procedures to the Career Manager prior to succession and selection boards.


8. References / Annexes

8.1 Source References


A-PD-055-002/PP-001 Canadian Forces Manual of Military Occupational Structure Volume 2, Part 1 Job Based Occupational Specification for Logistics
DAOD 5070-0 Military Employment Structure
DAOD 5031-2 Individual Training and Education Strategic Framework
NAVORD 5555-1 RCN Occupation Management
NAVORD 5000-0 RCN Personnel Management Governance

8.2 Annexes and Appendices

Annex A – HOD Candidate Administration
- Appendix 1 – Sample Training Plan and Schedule
- Appendix 2 – HOD Qualification OJT Requirements
- Appendix 3 – Sample Training Progression Report
- Appendix 4 – Sample HOD Qualification Board Letter of Recommendation
- Appendix 5 - Sample HOD Qualification Message
Recruiting Center: Montreal
Regular/Reserve: Regular Force
Officer/NCM: Officer (DEO)
Occupation choice: Logistics Officer
Current application: March 28, 2017
CFAT: Previously completed in November 2011
Interview: July 11, 2017
Medical: August 2017
Competition list: October/November 2017
Position Offered: May 25, 2018
Swearing In: August 21, 2018
BMOQ: August 25, 2018
BMOQ Graduation: November 16, 2018