Author Topic: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists  (Read 59881 times)

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Offline bilton090

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Re: Airborne Engineers
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2006, 08:24:06 »
I have also discovered that the Airborne had a full Engineer Squadron as part of its order of battle.  That was lost the same time the Artillery was removed, when the Regiment moved to Pet.

                The C.A.R moved from Ed. they had a Eng. Sqn. , After the move the Eng's re.-badged back to the Eng. cap badge. The Sqn. got bigger to over half of 2 C.E.R . When the coin was first givin out the first 100 went to the Eng's !!!  Chimo! Airborne
Chimo!  Airborne

Offline ChristopherRobin

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Re: Airborne Engineers
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2006, 02:20:11 »
Just bringing this thread up instead of starting a new one...

How rare or common is it to see a set of jump wings (red or white) on the uniform of an engineer?

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Re: Airborne Engineers
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2006, 03:20:42 »
Just bringing this thread up instead of starting a new one...

How rare or common is it to see a set of jump wings (red or white) on the uniform of an engineer?

Its quite common

Offline Sapper6

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Re: Airborne Engineers
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2006, 14:48:38 »
Just bringing this thread up instead of starting a new one...

How rare or common is it to see a set of jump wings (red or white) on the uniform of an engineer?

ChrisR,

I agree with cdnaviator, but the answer is relative.  In other words, we still try to maintain the "capability" of military parachuting but we no longer maintain a purely "airborne" role in the Army anymore.  For economy of effort, expertise is maintained through the designation of the three "light" companies of the 3rd BNs of each Inf Regt plus the Canadian Parachute Centre (or whatever it is called these days).

Combat Engineers get "some" of the basic parachuting positions on each serial... as do the Gunners, Armd Crewmen, Medics, Logisticians, etc.  However, the focus is on the infantry (quite rightly IMHO) with some slots for us.  That being said, it is "common" to see soldiers in the CERs/ESR sporting "red wings" eventhough there is not many of them.  As for "white wings",... those are more rare.  White wings are only found on Sappers that have served in designated "jump positions" and usually go back to the Airborne Regiment days.  Despite efforts from the senior leadership of the Engineers, there has been no joy in establishing hard, maroon beret, jump positions in the Regts.

So, what is "common" and "rare"?  Based on my experience (and this is not scientific), I would estimate that a CER would have 20-40 soldiers with red wings out of a total of 390.  Of course, this number fluctuates between Regts.  For example, 2 CER Petawawa has had a greater number of jumpers historically based on its former ties to the AB Regt.  Further, opportunities to go on jump courses fluctuates with the op tempo.

Anyway, my 2 cents.  Anyone who is currently in a Regt, please feel free to correct me if I got this wrong.

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Offline Sapper3123

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Airborne Engineers
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2007, 20:06:47 »
I am a new recruit with the 31 Combat Engineer Regiment.  And I was thinking if engineers could join one of the parachute companies.... Can we?

Offline MCG

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Re: Airborne Engineers
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2007, 20:23:13 »
Can we?
No.  You need to be regular force and infantry.

However, you can do a parachute course. 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,18392.0.html

Offline geo

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Re: Engineer Para-troops?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2007, 21:27:30 »
3123
Para companies are, at present, exclusively infantry BUT
you have units like the CSOR who are a mix of many trades, Engineer and Infantry included.  They will ride helicopters and parachutes into their area of operation...

Engineer squadrons are deploying with the battle groups in theatre.  Sappers are attached to the PRTs and the Rifle platoons who are closing with and dealing with the ennemy.
Chimo!

Offline MCG

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2013, 12:48:23 »
A modern Airborne Engineer operation:
Quote
On 28 and 29 Jan 2013, the 17ème régiment de génie parachutiste (Airborne Engineer Regiment) was committed at Tombouctou airport to recover the practicability of the transportation head, after being damaged by the terrorists. After reconnaissance and a planning process, one dump, one bulldozer and one backhoe loader coming from Abidjan were dropped by 4 transport aircraft. Within this main airborne operation and due to the effectiveness of the Para sappers, 2000 m of runway could be repaired in 24H, an important operational but also economical issue for the town.
This example brings out a critical element of Airborne Engineering that has been lacking from our jump sections and parachute troops of the last near two decades - the ability to do heavy engineering work (like reclaim a runway for follow-on forces).  If we ever become serious about Airborne Engineers, the French air-droppable hy eqpt are the type of asset that we will need to consider.

More here: http://www.networkvisio.com/n31-france/article-les-sapeurs-parachutistes-du-17e-rgp-prennent-part-%C3%A0.html?id=3379 (en français)

Offline Jungle

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2013, 17:27:29 »
Before 1992, we had an Airborne Battle Group, with a Cbt Eng Sqn. Between 1992 and 1995, the CAR had an integral Cbt Eng platoon, with heavy eqpt, and would have been able to carry out the kind of mission depicted above.

Now... we can't do it. Try moving a grader or a bulldozer 200km by helicopter... or inserting a Coy group rapidly 1000 km away.
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Offline cupper

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2013, 19:00:33 »
I suppose the term is relative to the tasking at hand, but the equipment in the photo doesn't look all that heavy.

I assume that the concept is to have equipment light enough to be air dropped, but capable of performing the necessary temporary repairs to allow larger equipment to be flown in and do larger longer term repairs.
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

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Offline MCG

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2013, 00:09:13 »
The light stuff shown can do most of what we would do with our heavier equipment, but it would take a lot longer to get the job done.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2013, 12:04:00 »
The runways in Haiti after the earthquake come to mind.
Wrote off a grader in Pet after one of the 100' parachutes failed to release;
We LAPEs a few machines in Baker Lake in 89 I believe but left the D3 there after it broke down. (the town managed to recover it before it melted through)
They weren't replaced.
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #62 on: May 06, 2013, 21:56:15 »
That was the same ex in which a grader(?) froze to the ramp and the herc had to return to trenton with it...
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Offline cupper

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2013, 00:58:56 »
That was the same ex in which a grader(?) froze to the ramp and the herc had to return to trenton with it...

That must have been an interesting flight back. Quite the pucker factor.
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

There is no God, and life is just a myth.

"He who drinks, sleeps. He who sleeps, does not sin. He who does not sin, is holy. Therefore he who drinks, is holy."

Let's Go CAPS!

Offline C_Rey88

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2016, 21:48:47 »
I apologize in advance for necroposting here, but I'm sure other prospective sappers have the same question. This thread is fairly dated and from what I've read online, there seems to be SOME (2 or 3) airborne troops in each CER *reg force*, is this correct? Also, assuming being posted to these troops is contingent upon completion of your basic para, what sort of role would a sapper play here? Would it be more construction based or demolitions? Feel free to offer up any insight, I've been curious about it as I've always loved the idea of being jump qualified.

edit: I've asked a similar question on a different thread and just wanted some more insight, figured a labeled thread about it would be more effective.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 22:05:37 by C_Rey88 »
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Offline Gunshark

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2016, 22:11:42 »
Also interested in this, but on PRes side.

Offline KerryBlue

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2016, 18:46:36 »
Also interested in this, but on PRes side.


From what I've heard unless your with the QoR the chances of a reservist getting airborne are slim to none.

Offline Pickle Rick

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2016, 18:50:00 »

From what I've heard unless your with the QoR the chances of a reservist getting airborne are slim to none.

Plenty of Reservists outside of the QOR have attended Basic Para.  The QOR is just the only Reserve unit with a parachute tasking.


Also interested in this, but on PRes side.

Some Reserve Engineers may get the opportunity to attend Basic Para, but there are no para positions within the Reserve CERs that I am aware of.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 18:56:37 by LightFighter »

Offline C_Rey88

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2016, 20:24:46 »
What about reg. force? Any info on that?

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Offline NFLD Sapper

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2016, 20:28:12 »
There are no PRes CER jump positions. I do believe that 2 and 5 CER have or are trying to get jump positions back...Not 100% sure about 1 CER though....
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Offline MCG

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2016, 01:07:31 »
What about reg. force? Any info on that?
Currently every brigade has at least a parachute section of engineers, with some brigades having a little more.  There has been talk of formalizing a parachute company group in every brigade.  This would see a field troop in every brigade become tasked as a jump troop.

I don't know if this will actually happen.  There is no good doctrinal argument for such a group of engineers to support a company of parachute infantry.  Light infantry need less close engineer support than do mechanized forces, and bigger resources are needed to open airfields or establish land lines of communication.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2016, 09:39:44 »
There is no good doctrinal argument for such a group ....
Doctrine, like strategic or operational necessity, seems to have little relevance to most decisions recently.  There appears to be a 'logical' linkage to the CANLANDGEN announcing Velcro'd jump wings, etc, being worn on CADPAT (to a maximum of two skill badges -- oh look, the Army CWO -- an Engineer -- has jump wings and a Cbt Dive badge).  The logic being "more badges" being a priority co-equal with "expand headquarters."

Coincidence, or just another example of current CAF 'leadership'?



/tangent.   Please return to the discussion of Pigs in Space Airborne Engineers.  [That was autocorrect, honest ;D ]

Offline captloadie

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2016, 11:04:57 »
I know this is a sacred cow sort of thing, and maybe should be in a separate thread, but is there still a requirement to have a paratroop capability at all.

Offline PanaEng

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2016, 11:14:19 »
Pigs in space is quite appropriate; All the airborne engineers referred to themselves as airborne thumperheads and had badges and shirts with this logo
http://dbembroiderysolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/11568-Airborne-Brotherhood-Thumperheah-Motorcycle-Not-available-to-the-general-public-e1409877505352.jpg


Dave Armit made a bunch of bunch of t-shirts recently.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:18:38 by PanaEng »
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline C_Rey88

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Re: Airborne Engineers & Combat Engineer Parachutists
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2016, 13:29:57 »
What sort of capabilities do they provide? Is it more or less a sort of Eng. recce or the ability to deploy equipment in matter of hours to repair/dismantle objectives? From the very limited information available it doesn't paint a clear picture of what exact sort of tasks a parachute troop would perform differently than a  standard field troop.
Recruiting Center: Moncton
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