Author Topic: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016  (Read 224679 times)

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Offline MARS

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #225 on: May 30, 2014, 11:00:08 »
Cant the CDS or the GG grant permission to serve past CRA??


That would directly contradict the literal definition of the word "compulsory".  If they, or anyone could waive it, it would simply be known as the "Retirement Age"
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Offline upandatom

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #226 on: June 18, 2014, 09:51:03 »
Once again, emphasis on the "??"

I did not say it was a fact by any means, and it was a simple question.

"I was fairly certain" does not indicate fact, I thought I might have read/heard about it or something along those lines.

Thank you for the clarification.

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Offline Vell

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #227 on: July 12, 2014, 03:41:10 »
Once again, emphasis on the "??"

I did not say it was a fact by any means, and it was a simple question.

"I was fairly certain" does not indicate fact, I thought I might have read/heard about it or something along those lines.

Thank you for the clarification.

I too am just an applicant, but I think I remember reading something about how while most NCM and Officers can only go until 60, CIC can remain until they are 65. I don't have any idea if that is true or not though or if it is, can you use it as a clever way to extend your service so that you can qualify for pension if you join post age 35 (I kind of hope that is not possible though as I would rather all CIC members are doing it for the young adults, not the pension).

Offline x-grunt

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #228 on: November 01, 2014, 21:56:21 »
Yep, 55.
Officially I know someone can enroll, but realistically does anyone get accepted into reserves at around this age, and if they do are they successful?

This isn't about me, I served a long time ago and unsuccessfully tried to reenlist some years back at the peak of our mission in Afghanistan. It's about a friend who is my age, 55, who had no idea until recently he could enlist at his age. It's been something he always regretted not doing. He's very excited about the possibility of reserve service. He is clear that combat arms is more a young person's game, but maybe Log O or MSE Op or similar he could do well. I advised him to go talk to a few people at some units and the local CFRC. He's afraid he'll get laughed out of the recruiting office but he's determined to try.

That said, I'm curious about his chances too. He is 55 in better shape them most our age.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #229 on: November 01, 2014, 22:07:31 »
Yep, 55.
Officially I know someone can enroll, but realistically does anyone get accepted into reserves at around this age, and if they do are they successful?

This isn't about me, I served a long time ago and unsuccessfully tried to reenlist some years back at the peak of our mission in Afghanistan. It's about a friend who is my age, 55, who had no idea until recently he could enlist at his age. It's been something he always regretted not doing. He's very excited about the possibility of reserve service. He is clear that combat arms is more a young person's game, but maybe Log O or MSE Op or similar he could do well. I advised him to go talk to a few people at some units and the local CFRC. He's afraid he'll get laughed out of the recruiting office but he's determined to try.

That said, I'm curious about his chances too. He is 55 in better shape them most our age.


We have a whole topic dedicated to just this question: "Am I too old to join?"

55 is basically the cut off for joining the Reserves.  CRA is 60 and it doesn't matter how fit or good your health is, you are done.

Criteria that affect one joining at a late age are:

1.  Are there any positions open in a Reserve unit;

2.  Can the member complete all of Basic within a one to two year timeframe; and

3.  Can the member then complete Trades trg within a year.

Joining as an officer would mean that their combined Basic and Trades trg will take a much longer time, and be dependent in some cases on whether or not crses are being run.  Joining as a NCM would meet the above criteria, and give the member approx two years service as a trained Reservist.  For the most part, Reserve units are Cbt Arms, which would also allow the member to meet the criteria.  If the member wants to get into a Specialized Trade, the trg may take longer, more than five years, and likely be cause to reject their application.  Officer positions are more rare than NCM positions.  Many Reserve units have waiting lists, due to Recruiting policies, and can not recruit over their allotted positions.
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Offline x-grunt

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #230 on: November 01, 2014, 22:23:09 »

We have a whole topic dedicated to just this question: "Am I too old to join?"

55 is basically the cut off for joining the Reserves.  CRA is 60 and it doesn't matter how fit or good your health is, you are done.

Criteria that affect one joining at a late age are:

1.  Are there any positions open in a Reserve unit;

2.  Can the member complete all of Basic within a one to two year timeframe; and

3.  Can the member then complete Trades trg within a year.

Joining as an officer would mean that their combined Basic and Trades trg will take a much longer time, and be dependent in some cases on whether or not crses are being run.  Joining as a NCM would meet the above criteria, and give the member approx two years service as a trained Reservist.  For the most part, Reserve units are Cbt Arms, which would also allow the member to meet the criteria.  If the member wants to get into a Specialized Trade, the trg may take longer, more than five years, and likely be cause to reject their application.  Officer positions are more rare than NCM positions.  Many Reserve units have waiting lists, due to Recruiting policies, and can not recruit over their allotted positions.

Thanks for the quick and thorough response, and for merging the thread. The good points you make are the reason I'm curious if anyone actually does get accepted or, more importantly perhaps, actually add value with his or her service at this age. I wish him well with his  attempt.

Offline Comedian

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #231 on: February 09, 2015, 11:57:24 »
Hi beautiful people,

I just wanted to say right off the bat that, in my silent stalking, this awesome site has indirectly answered lot of my questions. I was thinking of joining the army full time and have now set a date in the not so distant future to enroll. I want to be in good shape first as to not waste anyone's time and also to hit the ground running.

After talking it over with wifey, and by talking I mean begging, and addressing her concerns since I am at the ripe old age of 33, I realized I also have some questions and I am hoping that you fine people could help me. Actually I guess, it's one question really...and the answer will not change my dedication towards my goal but it's always good to check if an umbrella is needed or not, right?

Are there any glass ceilings or is the sky the limit in terms of choosing this vocation? :salute:

I know that I can continue my studies if I want and I also have a vague idea about specializations but generally is there potential for growth or will I be stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers?

I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.   

This being my first post and all, I do apologize in advance if I posted this in the wrong spot.

Offline DAA

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #232 on: February 09, 2015, 12:11:59 »
I just wanted to say right off the bat that, in my silent stalking, this awesome site has indirectly answered lot of my questions. I was thinking of joining the army full time and have now set a date in the not so distant future to enroll. I want to be in good shape first as to not waste anyone's time and also to hit the ground running.

After talking it over with wifey, and by talking I mean begging, and addressing her concerns since I am at the ripe old age of 33, I realized I also have some questions and I am hoping that you fine people could help me. Actually I guess, it's one question really...and the answer will not change my dedication towards my goal but it's always good to check if an umbrella is needed or not, right?

Are there any glass ceilings or is the sky the limit in terms of choosing this vocation? :salute:

I know that I can continue my studies if I want and I also have a vague idea about specializations but generally is there potential for growth or will I be stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers?

I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.   

This being my first post and all, I do apologize in advance if I posted this in the wrong spot.

There are no glass ceilings and the sky is the limit.

Mature applicants, in some instances, will advance quicker because they have more life experience than the younger generation and understand what is expected of them.  They don't just go and do their assigned job and leave it at that, they go and do it really well and thus, reap the rewards.

Go ahead and apply........
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Offline runormal

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #233 on: February 09, 2015, 12:56:24 »
I had a guy in his 40's on my basic, he didn't have a problem.
I had a girl in her 40's on my SQ she didn't have a problem.
I had a guy in his 50's on my Dp 1 he didn't have a problem.
I had guys in their late 40's on my Driver Wheel they didn't have a problem.

Infact all of these candidates could do the PT better than people my age own age or younger. 

Defintely apply!


Offline FJAG

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #234 on: February 09, 2015, 13:17:50 »
Let me throw some cold water on your ambitions.

Firstly DAA is absolutely right in that there are no glass ceilings, per se, and that mature applicants do bring more to the table.

That said, you don't give us much information on what type of a career you are looking for or what you are bringing in the way of job experience; there's a big difference in joining the infantry or a support trade.

I see trouble on your horizon. The fact that you have to "beg" with "wifey" doesn't bode well. Do you have children? Does she have a job? Do you currently have a job and what is your present joint income? Why is she so opposed to this? Coming in at 33 is difficult enough without dragging a reluctant spouse (and perhaps children) with you. From the way you are speaking I'm left with the impression (whether right or wrong) that you are somewhat selfishly dismissing her objections in order to meet some personal goals rather than family ones.

While there is no "glass ceiling" there is the reality that you are entering the profession some fifteen years behind your peers. Think about the fact that in the CF one can qualify for a pension at twenty years. Time has no pity. You will always be older than your peers and, for much (if not all) of your career, will be led by individuals who are significantly younger than you. I ordinarily wouldn't mention that but you have indicated that you do not do well "sucking up", have never "moved up" within your current career, and do you want to be "stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers".

In my humble opinion, you need to do a rethink about just what it is that motivates your desire to join the army over your wife's objections. On top of that, if you are still serious and want some more educated answers to your basic question then tell us a bit more about what background education and work experience you have and what particular branch or component of the army it is that you wish to join.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 17:01:18 by FJAG »
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Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #235 on: February 09, 2015, 15:24:10 »
When it comes to advancement...you'll rise to the level of your own competence (or some may say incompetence).  You'll get out of your career what you put into it.

Offline Ayrsayle

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #236 on: February 09, 2015, 15:47:04 »
To elaborate a bit on what FJAG was hitting at (and it will be slightly different depending on what trade, etc):

In general there are no glass ceilings - what is a limit however is a requirement for you to demonstrate skills in a particular rank/position before you progress to the next.  Someone who enrols at age 20 will have more opportunities (by virtue of having more time to demonstrate them, learn skills, etc) to move higher up the ranks then someone who enrols at 35.  However, if the 35 year old is more competent and demonstrates the required skills better then his peers he will be selected over them for promotion/higher position.

I describe it like a checklist - once you accomplish what is required at a particular level you get compared to your peers who have done the same - and the best are chosen to progress.  Having less time means exactly that - you'll have to be better, in a shorter period of time, then your peers to be in the same spot when you both retire.  If your ambition is to be the CDS or Chief of the Army, your age likely will factor into being unable to complete the required checklist in time (even if you are truly exceptional) - but you won't be pinned into a rank/position simply because you happen to be older then your peers.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 17:14:29 by Ayrsayle »
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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #237 on: February 09, 2015, 17:00:12 »
 :goodpost:

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 17:03:56 by FJAG »
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Offline kratz

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #238 on: February 09, 2015, 17:12:30 »
Let me throw some cold water on your ambitions.

Firstly DAA is absolutely right in that there are no glass ceilings, per se, and that mature applicants do bring more to the table.

That said, you don't give us much information on what type of a career you are looking for or what you are bringing in the way of job experience; there's a big difference in joining the infantry or a support trade.

I see trouble on your horizon. The fact that you have to "beg" with "wifey" doesn't bode well. Do you have children? Does she have a job? Do you currently have a job and what is your present joint income? Why is she so opposed to this? Coming in at 33 is difficult enough without dragging a reluctant spouse (and perhaps children) with you. From the way you are speaking I'm left with the impression (whether right or wrong) that you are somewhat selfishly dismissing her objections in order to meet some personal goals rather than family ones.

While there is no "glass ceiling" there is the reality that you are entering the profession some fifteen years behind your peers. Think about the fact that in the CF one can qualify for a pension at twenty-five
 years (or CRA, effective 2007). Time has no pity. You will always be older than your peers and, for much (if not all) of your career, will be led by individuals who are significantly younger than you. I ordinarily wouldn't mention that but you have indicated that you do not do well "sucking up", have never "moved up" within your current career, and do you want to be "stuck with people complaining about advancing only so far in their careers".

In my humble opinion, you need to do a rethink about just what it is that motivates your desire to join the army over your wife's objections. On top of that, if you are still serious and want some more educated answers to your basic question then tell us a bit more about what background education and work experience you have and what particular branch or component of the army it is that you wish to join.

 :cheers:

Great post, FTFY on one point.
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Offline Comedian

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #239 on: February 09, 2015, 18:01:46 »
Wow, thank you all for the input and a special props to FJAG for the cold water.

Ha ha, I will be the first to admit that my spouse can be a handful but she is definitely an alpha in terms of managing the house. She works as a nurse and is the fearless bossy independent type. Now I am not saying I am a push over but there is no wrong in acknowledging a powerful woman, it's rather good on my health actually.

She is mainly reluctant because she thinks I should dedicate my life to being a lawyer, politician, writer, or some other white collar job. We have 3 children, a 16 year old boy and 2 little girls but honestly sometimes I feel like I have 3 daughters :P.

As a 1st generation Canadian, I have always felt the need to show my love and dedication for my country but life always seemed to get in the way. I want to represent my country. :cdn:

I must admit that this is a personal goal I have had for years and though I have been able to repress it for a while, that all changed last year when my son, now 16, decided that he wants to enlist after high school. Wifey was not thrilled but I had nothing to do with the boy's ambition. So in somewhat of an ironic twist, I guess my personal goal has family interest splinters.

My "expertises", I would say is mainly the ability to communicate, learn fast, and teach others.

Obviously all of this is work related experiences from various call centers dealing with hostile clients, language barriers, turning no into yes, and of course selling.

I was also in the high school swim team and I love it to this day.

And in closing...I am also a Sagittarius. :snowman:

In all seriousness though, thank you all for your valuable input.

Offline DAA

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #240 on: February 09, 2015, 21:00:03 »
To elaborate a bit on what FJAG was hitting at (and it will be slightly different depending on what trade, etc):

In general there are no glass ceilings - what is a limit however is a requirement for you to demonstrate skills in a particular rank/position before you progress to the next.  Someone who enrols at age 20 will have more opportunities (by virtue of having more time to demonstrate them, learn skills, etc) to move higher up the ranks then someone who enrols at 35.  However, if the 35 year old is more competent and demonstrates the required skills better then his peers he will be selected over them for promotion/higher position.

I describe it like a checklist - once you accomplish what is required at a particular level you get compared to your peers who have done the same - and the best are chosen to progress.  Having less time means exactly that - you'll have to be better, in a shorter period of time, then your peers to be in the same spot when you both retire.  If your ambition is to be the CDS or Chief of the Army, your age likely will factor into being unable to complete the required checklist in time (even if you are truly exceptional) - but you won't be pinned into a rank/position simply because you happen to be older then your peers.

Hope I don't offend, but I'm having flash backs here.  This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.
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Offline cryco

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #241 on: February 09, 2015, 21:08:46 »
I don't want to go too far off topic, but seriously? they wanted to dissuade over 25 from joining? Were there too many applicants at the time?

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #242 on: February 09, 2015, 21:12:30 »
I don't want to go too far off topic, but seriously? they wanted to dissuade over 25 from joining? Were there too many applicants at the time?

I think it was more the case of, all their applicants were older and therefore were more familiar with armed conflicts and wars that Canada participated in and wanted to do their part but also a time where youth had little to no desire to join as it was seen as a "disgraceful, last resort" career for the convicts and the dropouts.

Just a wild guess.
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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #243 on: February 09, 2015, 21:41:20 »
Great post, FTFY on one point.

Thanks Kratz - guess I'm showing my own old age  ;D

Just as an aside. I'm not adverse to changing careers late in life. I joined the regular army OCTP right out of high school and at age 32 decided to pack it in to go to law school and a civilian/reserve career. Even when everyone's on board there's a great shock for the whole family when you do that from leaving friends and family behind, finance and housing issues, a new career to learn and establish. I could go on but you get the idea.

Anyway. Best of luck in whatever decision you make.

:cheers:
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #244 on: February 09, 2015, 21:52:51 »
This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.

That seems to have been the case when I joined the militia. It was also customary in at least some of the Emergency Services:

"Prior to the early 1980s, the RCMP recruited new members aged from 19 to about 25. The practice was relatively customary of those days, and based on three precise beliefs from the RCMP. First, policing could not be the second career of an individual. Second, young men were more moldable than older individuals to the police subculture. Third, criminal activity was linked to adulthood; by hiring young adults, the RCMP secured a greater chance that those individuals would have a crime-free background."
http://www.shaba.co/wa?s=RCMP_recruitment#Age

( I don't vouch for the source. Take it for what it is worth.  :2c: )

I believe Human Rights legislation put an end to Age Discrimination around that time.



 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 22:00:16 by mariomike »

Offline Ayrsayle

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #245 on: February 09, 2015, 22:34:43 »
Hope I don't offend, but I'm having flash backs here.  This is the "exact" training that was provided to Recruiters back in 1989 and used as a counselling/turn-off method, to disuade those over the age of 25 from pursueing a career in the CF.

Long before my time - but this was the explanation given to most my peers and I when we were introduced to the Regimental succession planning process.  Seeing as how I enrolled over the age of 25, I appreciated the honest assessment/commentary - along with the emphatic "Be so damn good they can't help but promote you" mentality that creates success as opposed to thinking a career was over before it started.

I'll let you know in 20 years how well it worked out (laughs).
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Offline DAA

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #246 on: February 09, 2015, 23:19:50 »
Long before my time - but this was the explanation given to most my peers and I when we were introduced to the Regimental succession planning process.  Seeing as how I enrolled over the age of 25, I appreciated the honest assessment/commentary - along with the emphatic "Be so damn good they can't help but promote you" mentality that creates success as opposed to thinking a career was over before it started.

I'll let you know in 20 years how well it worked out (laughs).

At one time, age at the time of enrolment was considered as a barrier to not just advancement but most of the future employment scenarios which you mentioned (ie; older than your peers, working for someone younger, etc, etc).  Then when that didn't work and the intake age increased, came the "enforce the limited pension aspect" thing (ie; your 36 and can't do 20 years for an immediate pension, etc) and when that didn't work came the "your career will be limited" thing (ie; never get past Cpl or Capt).

All of the above have credence to some extent.  The landscape has definitely changed and continues to do so.

Hell, in the early 80's I remember one day asking my Capt "Sir, why aren't you a Major yet?"  His response, "I'm 31, my career is done and I'll be lucky if I see Maj."

My how things have changed.........
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #247 on: February 10, 2015, 06:04:03 »

I am asking this only because I have worked in office environments for basically my whole life yet I have never moved up but I am quite a good sociable worker but I suck at sucking up and I intend to keep it that way till the day I meet my maker.   


What do you mean by sucking up?  The CF is an heirarchical organization that specializes in the management of violence; therefore, in short order within the outfit, you will receive orders that:

1)  you don't like;
2)  you think are foolish;
3)  don't make sense;
4)  may place your life in danger;
5)  will cause you personal anguish;
6)  will be personally inconvenient;
7)  will come from people who are younger than you; and/or
8 )  will come from people who are not as smart as you.

BUT you will still have to follow them, with the added benefit of being in an organization that has the legal authority to imprison you, should you not follow those orders.  If you last long enough, however, you may reach a point where YOU are giving orders that:

1)  you don't like;
2)  you think are foolish;
3)  don't make sense;
4)  may place your or your subordinates' lives in danger;
5)  will cause you personal anguish;
6)  will be personally inconvenient;
7)  are a result of those that come from people who are younger than you; and/or
8 )  are a result of those that come from people who are not as smart as you.

The saving grace is the hope that everyone has received sufficient training to make the right decisions at the right time and that only those with good judgement are placed in positions of responsibility.  For the most part, this is largely true, but there are exceptions...

Your ability to question decisions is dictated by the circumstances and the level of trust you have earned from your superiors.  The bottom line though is that warfare is chaotic and our heirarchy attempts to maintain some semblance of order, so there is often no time to question a leader's decision, even if you think it is wrong. 




« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 06:21:22 by milnews.ca »
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline Comedian

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #248 on: February 10, 2015, 19:58:22 »
Thanks for the insight Pusser.

What you highlighted reminds me of my marriage.

Jokes aside, I appreciate the insight and do not see myself having an issue with anything you mentioned.

What I meant by sucking up is for instance complimenting the boss' shoes everyday and stuff like that just to move up the corporate ladder.

Hard work, I am not afraid of. ;D

Offline DAA

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Re: Am I too old, fat, or fit in? 2001 to 2016
« Reply #249 on: February 10, 2015, 20:08:51 »
What I meant by sucking up is for instance complimenting the boss' shoes everyday and stuff like that just to move up the corporate ladder.

Hard work, I am not afraid of. ;D

Oh, you definitely won't have to compliment the boss' shoes, as it shall be the boss, commenting on yours.........lol
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