Author Topic: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training  (Read 20666 times)

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Offline geo

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2007, 07:55:16 »
The CF does have and offers some family service resources BUT, this will depend on the area of the country where you are based.

Both in the Regs:
Depending on the trades you and your husband have, things can sometimes be dicey - instances where he will be posted to one base while you are posted to another..... not too bad when the two locations are within a day's drive of each other but, when you are at either end of the country.... not good.
One Reg, one Res:
A lot depends on the Reserve units that exist near where your husband gets posted... but you will have a bit more control on where you go and what you do & when you are available for work.
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Offline exgunnertdo

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2007, 07:56:00 »
My husband and I both transferred from the Reserves to Reg a couple of years ago.  We have two kids who (at the time) were 2 and 4.  Some factors that made it easy/easier for us:

-we were granted BOTP/IAP bypass due to time and trg in the PRes
-we both changed classifications, but to jobs that are primarily OT, so our training courses were filled with people with time in, spouses (civi and mil), and children (there were only 2 people on my course without kids, and the rest of us had kids ranging from 2 weeks to 16 years old).  The climate was more "family friendly" than a course filled with 20 ish single guys
-with a combined experience of nearly 35 years in the PRes, we knew our way around the regulations and administration, making it significantly easier to navigate the CFRC processes, then the training system after that.

If your husband is combat arms, he will get (according to current policy, anyway) a direct transfer to the RegF, in the rank that he wore in Afghanistan.  If there are complications and he has to do some training (SQ, trades training etc) then you joining the RegF (or even the Res) will be that much more difficult.  Basic level stuff like SQ and basic combat arms trades courses are not family friendly, you would be expected to sort out your child care arrangements so that he could do his training.  If you are on a course at the same time, like BMQ, then you will need a very reliable grandparent or something to help.  If he gets to go straight to the Regt or Battalion, it will be easier.

The system tends to be fairly supportive of service couples, but does not bend over backwards to make your life easy.  You are still expected to be a responsible soldier, sailor or airperson and manage your personal life.  You are responsible for day-to-day child care, including weekends if you have to work.  But, if you're both RegF, there is a provision that if you are both sent away at the same time (to the field on ex, on a course, on TD or on deployment), they will pay the extra child care, over and above your regular child care.  You still have to make the arrangements, they won't deliver a bonded, insured, reference-checked babysitter to your door.  There is a program with the MFRC that will find you emergency child care, for the first few days, if, say hubby is away and you are called away on short notice.  With this program, you still have to pay for it, and you have to get your "emergency family care plan" going (fly a grandparent in or whatever) cause their support is only for a couple of days.

Most career managers are pretty good about keeping couples together, since keeping them apart is expensive.  But you have to be flexible.  For example, if your hubby is combat arms, and you insist to your career manager that you don't want to go to Shilo, Pet, Gagetown, etc.  You're asking for trouble.

Bottom line, if you are willing to work with the system, and not fight it every step of the way, it's a great life.  There are complications, but there are complications with every family choice you make.  Expect the first couple of years to be tough, while you get trained.  

Feel free to PM me if you want to ask more specifics, or just to chat about experiences.
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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2007, 09:38:57 »
Thank you for your input.

It's a hard decision to make. We have a large family and all my relatives live over 2000km away on the east coast. Finding committed babysitters is difficult and I never want to get into a situation where I'm unreliable due to child care issues. That's why I'm trying to get input from couples/moms that are currently in this situation before I make any decisions.

I'm currently going through the recruitment process to join the reserves, but may want to join the Regs in the future, if it's suitable.

Could you elaborate on this "emergency family care plan"? What is this exactly?


Offline exgunnertdo

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2007, 11:03:27 »
I think its official title is "Family Care Plan" or FCP.  It's a one page form on your file.  Everyone in the CF is supposed to fill it out.  I even did one as a Class A reservist.  You are to state that either you have nobody that you are responisble to care for (children or elderly parents, whatever) or you have people you care for and then you either state that you have arrangements but choose not to disclose the arrangements, or you state who your emergency caregivers are, where they live etc.  This form is then filed on your pers file.  It serves two purposes - it "forces" the member to think about the situation, by suggesting they put it in writing, and in the worst case scenario, the CoC can look at your FCP and call your emergency caregiver (whether it's a friend, neighbour, grandparent, other relative, etc) to look after your kids, if you can't.

In our case, our FCP has both of our mothers on it, and they would both drop everything and fly out to help if they were needed.  Committed extended family is essential, along with managing the risk.  I'm in a trade that doesn't deploy much (we do a bit, but we rely on volunteers, and there are enough people to volunteer), and hubby is in a trade that does deploy a fair bit, but unlikely to deploy on a moments notice.  He travels a fair bit with his current posting, I don't.  That could change next posting, who knows.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2007, 11:49:22 »
Thanks so much, I do have 1 other question. The cost of flying a relative out to care for children, is it covered by the parents (me)? I'm positive it is, but have to clarify.

thanks

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2007, 12:03:54 »
Thanks so much, I do have 1 other question. The cost of flying a relative out to care for children, is it covered by the parents (me)? I'm positive it is, but have to clarify.

thanks

Yes, this is the members own financial responsibility.

NOTE TO MARRIED SERVICE COUPLES:

It is extremely unadviseable to list your "service spouse" as the emergency familycare provider on your own FCP ... and have the other "service spouse" listing you as the emergency familycare provider on their FCP.

It's happened ... and that couple is dealing with those consequences now. As far as I'm concerned, that should have been picked up by the OR and the form bounced back as unacceptable when it was submitted for inclusion onto their files.

The intent is to list an emergency familycare provider who would be available on "XX" number of hours notice should you be required to RFD or deploy in an emergency situation, if this situation should be a war etc ... why the frig would you ever list your service spouse (who is also subject to, and may be) deployed on that emergency as well? (Their trade doesn't usually deploy?? That was the reason given for the listing of their svc spouse as the emergency provider in the above sit -- think again -- think Ice Storm etc).

Use these forms properly!! They are EMERGENCY familycare plans. When you are slated to deploy on an Op ... and your spouse on a course which occurs during your deployment, both of which you are advised about months in advance ... does not constitue an emergency.
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If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline Inf613

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2019, 11:23:37 »
I am currently finishing my ql3 and will be posted out in April. My wife is on her last year of police foundations and will be soon ready to apply for a career in policing. The ql3 fpr MP is 6 months long. My question is has anyone heard of a way for her to have her family with her while she is on training across the country? We have two young daughters 1 and 3 years old. Military Police and RCMP unforunetly take 6 months to train. Here are some things I have thought of:
Will I be able to get on a CFTPO in Borden while shes on course?
Can I take a Leave of absense?
Would my unit let me save two years of leave and use it while shes on course?

Can anyone help think of any ideas or share any experiences they may have heard of?

Offline garb811

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2019, 16:57:30 »
I am currently finishing my ql3 and will be posted out in April. My wife is on her last year of police foundations and will be soon ready to apply for a career in policing. The ql3 fpr MP is 6 months long. My question is has anyone heard of a way for her to have her family with her while she is on training across the country? We have two young daughters 1 and 3 years old. Military Police and RCMP unforunetly take 6 months to train. Here are some things I have thought of:
Will I be able to get on a CFTPO in Borden while shes on course?
Can I take a Leave of absense?
Would my unit let me save two years of leave and use it while shes on course?

Can anyone help think of any ideas or share any experiences they may have heard of?
Anything is possible but...

You are unlikely to get an Attach Posting to Borden for the sole reason of being there when she is on her QL3. Even if this was the case, where would you live? She will be in quarters and you won't be entitled to move your HG&E for an Attach Posting.
You are unlikely to get LWOP for this purpose.
Your unit will not let you accumulate a year's worth of leave as that is not how the policy works.

Best bet, if you absolutely must be co-located while she is on her QL3, is for you to ask to be posted to Borden on completion of your QL3. Otherwise, being separated from your spouse and family while on course is an unfortunate aspect of military life. You and she need to sit down and have a hard talk about options outside of military accommodation on how you can make this work. Once you are both through QL3 it will become a bit easier but there are always going to be times when one of you ends up being a single parent for extended periods and you need to have a plan in place.

Offline Chanada

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2019, 17:38:40 »
Inf613...As I read your post you are presently on QL3 Inf in Meaford and your wife is taking Police Foundations but has not yet applied either to a Police Force or to join the CAF as an MP.  If her plan is to apply to a civ Police service then chances of success and timing will depend on where you go.  If her intent is to join the CAF as an MP that is a bit different and to be honest your chances may be better as two halves of a service couple with her staring here recruit/MP training once you are posted to whichever base/bn this year.  Either way on graduating DP1 (assuming you are not PPCLI) then you are headed for Petawawa or Gagetown with a battalion of your regiment - and whichever it ends up being then you are going to be there for a while. With very few exceptions that is where cpl/pte infantryman spend the first 4-7 years of their career.  If your wife joins as an MP then there is a chance that she could be posted and collocated when she completes her DP1.  The good news for you is that generally when service couples are posted together the Career Manager of the senior member picks up the cost move.  In terms of your wife's options whether civil or military police I think the career timelines you are working on for her may be a bit optimistic.  Police foundations graduates are a bit of a buyers market these days so it really depends on which forces are hiring and in both those locations (Petawawa and NB) they are smaller forces/detachments).  Using either scenario she may not receive an offer until (best case) several months after she graduates from her present programme and she might consider starting the CAF application process now to see what happens.  Good luck to you.

Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2019, 18:36:45 »


Inf613...As I read your post you are presently on QL3 Inf in Meaford...

I'm not sure what makes you believe he is infantry? His profile lists his current unit as CFLTC and his MOSID as 00117... His post history states he CT'd from reserve infantry to Reg F MSE Op. His posting options are nearly limitless.

Best bet, if you absolutely must be co-located while she is on her QL3, is for you to ask to be posted to Borden on completion of your QL3. Otherwise, being separated from your spouse and family while on course is an unfortunate aspect of military life.... Once you are both through QL3 it will become a bit easier but there are always going to be times when one of you ends up being a single parent for extended periods and you need to have a plan in place.

I'd like to emphasize the point in yellow. Before I was posted to Esquimalt, I didn't even know it existed and had no idea where it was. It certainly wasn't one of my options out the gate, but we made the best of it. Sometimes making the best of it is all you can do. Getting through to your occupationally functional point is the hardest part on couples in my opinion, which is multiplied if both are going through training at near the same time. There can be lots of "moves" from one school to the next, the member is separated from their family while Att Posted and trying to focus on their course while their family might be 10000000 billion miles away.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 18:42:29 by JesseWZ »
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Offline reverse_eng

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2019, 21:05:53 »
If you want your marriage to work, I'd avoid the military.

Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2019, 21:19:06 »
If you want your marriage to work, I'd avoid the military.

What a load of malarkey.

I've been in for 12 years, married for nearly 8. I know a lot of service couples who have been married for nearly as long as I have, and have held it down through deployments, taskings, children and all manner of stressors. I know a ton of folks where one spouse is in the military and they've been together as long as me or longer in some cases.

In fact, I think more of my civilian friends then my military friends have divorced.

Yes, deployments and courses and TD and such cause tension, but a marriage works or fails based on the individuals in the marriage - not because of the military. The military may exacerbate existing stressors, but it doesn't cause the end of marriages.

You're giving rather poor advice to someone whose already married and in the military. He's asking for help on making his family situation better. Did you even read the preceding posts? How does your one dismissive line help the OP or further the thread in any way?

« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 21:53:06 by JesseWZ »
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Offline Inf613

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2019, 13:02:22 »
Jesse, Do you know what the requirements for LWOP are? If I wanted to use a month of leave plus lets say 2 months of LWOP to try and stay in the area for half the course?

Offline Inf613

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Offline dangerboy

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2019, 13:17:37 »
This link has the is regulations on Leave Without Pay as per the CAF Leave Policy Manual: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page#chap8
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Offline Inf613

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Offline Inf613

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2019, 13:21:54 »
So does that mean Im good to take a couple months off?

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2019, 14:12:03 »
LWOP must be in the interest of the CAF. If your wife gets an embassy posting later in her career (where there's no CAF job for you), thats usually what I've seen it used for. They're not going to let you take LWOP so you can spend a couple hours a night with your wife. She's also going to be ordered into shacks. Are you going to get a hotel or rent an apartment?

You're both choosing a military career. There will be separations. The CAF will work to get you posted to the same bases. If you cannot handle a 6 month course, how are you going to handle BMQ? 6/9 month deployment? Multiple month exercises apart? The CAF is better at the family stuff now, but you need to have realistic expectations and maybe a serious talk about whether you can handle being a Married Service Couple.

Offline mariomike

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2019, 14:50:43 »
My wife is on her last year of police foundations and will be soon ready to apply for a career in policing.

If your wife is considering applying to the CAF, Recruiting would be her most trusted source of official up to date information.

Can anyone help think of any ideas or share any experiences they may have heard of?

Some discussions that may be of interest to potential Service Couples,

CAF Service Couple Information 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=113148.0

Not deploying service couples together 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=97185.0

Service Couples - Posting 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=30625.0

Service Couples
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=47261.0

Service Couple and Deployment??? 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=67671.0
2 pages.

Married couples and children 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=33024.0
2 pages

PLEASE HELP WITH POSTING! 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=53061.0
OP: "Does anyone have any tricks or a good way to get posted (service couple)?"

etc...


Offline kratz

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2019, 15:18:19 »
If your wife is considering applying to the CAF, Recruiting would be her most trusted source of official up to date information.
This is a training concern for her unit or school, not a CFRC. Reciting only gets people in the door to BMQ.

Some discussions that may be of interest to potential Service Couples  **snip**

The advice posted in 2007 and this week are valid. Both members will need to communicate, make some choices and decide.

MM's links are useful and restate similar advice.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2019, 15:33:46 »
MM's links are useful and restate similar advice.

From Forces.ca

Service Couples
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2014-directive-amend-ch10.page

SEPARATION OF MARRIED SERVICE COUPLES: PROBLEM OR PART OF MILITARY LIFE
https://www.cfc.forces.gc.ca/259/290/402/305/gagne.pdf

Relocation benefits applicable to meet the requirements of Service Couples (SCs).
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/2011-2012-directive-ch10.page

A Family Guide to the MILITARY EXPERIENCE
https://www.cafconnection.ca/getmedia/5d55e9e8-5e4c-45fe-a9cc-5b80dde75357/MFS-A-Family-Guide-to-the-Military-Experience-ENG.aspx
"Family Care Assistance is designed to help military members who are single parents or dual-service couples with children."

If you want your marriage to work, I'd avoid the military.

My sister was a dual-service couple, both in the Regular Force.

Maybe she was an exception. But, she was a wife and mother and still managed to enjoy a long and satisfying career.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 15:44:46 by mariomike »

Offline Inf613

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2019, 15:44:24 »
LWOP must be in the interest of the CAF. If your wife gets an embassy posting later in her career (where there's no CAF job for you), thats usually what I've seen it used for. They're not going to let you take LWOP so you can spend a couple hours a night with your wife. She's also going to be ordered into shacks. Are you going to get a hotel or rent an apartment?

You're both choosing a military career. There will be separations. The CAF will work to get you posted to the same bases. If you cannot handle a 6 month course, how are you going to handle BMQ? 6/9 month deployment? Multiple month exercises apart? The CAF is better at the family stuff now, but you need to have realistic expectations and maybe a serious talk about whether you can handle being a Married Service Couple.
We have family in the area where I can stay. I just think its a bit ridiculous to seperate a mother from her young children for 6 months to take a career course. She is willing to do deployments and exercises in the future but not when our daughter is 1 year old. So there is no way for this to happen? Its either leave your kids for 6 month or dont join?

Offline Brihard

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2019, 16:16:03 »
We have family in the area where I can stay. I just think its a bit ridiculous to seperate a mother from her young children for 6 months to take a career course. She is willing to do deployments and exercises in the future but not when our daughter is 1 year old. So there is no way for this to happen? Its either leave your kids for 6 month or dont join?

Essentially, yes. The security and certainty that comes with a full time career in the military does entail having to bite the bullet on some decisions like that from time to time.

That said if she’s still in school for PF, she’s a long ways let from getting hired by the MPs or any other police service. Your circumstances may change somewhat between now and when she has to face that decision.
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Offline garb811

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2019, 17:43:23 »
We have family in the area where I can stay. I just think its a bit ridiculous to seperate a mother from her young children for 6 months to take a career course. She is willing to do deployments and exercises in the future but not when our daughter is 1 year old. So there is no way for this to happen? Its either leave your kids for 6 month or dont join?
Like Brihard said, if you have been reading any of the MP recruiting threads, you should realize by now that she isn't miraculously going to graduate and then get sent to CFMPA then next day.  Chances are she is looking at a year, year and half post graduation from her program before she even gets to the point of doing the Background Integrity Interview (if "new MPAC" hasn't been implemented by that point), which I'm guessing isn't going to be until at least end-April. So, ballpark figure is she won't even be enrolled until summer 2021 at the earliest, at which point your child will be much older than a year...

You keep going on about "six months" for her QL3. The QL3 hasn't been six months in a couple of years now, it is now 18 weeks long and runs twice a year. One serial starts in January and ends in May, the other starts in August and ends in December. You haven't been talking about BMQ, so does that mean she's a reservist and going to bypass? If so, does she also have BMQ-L? Because that is a requirement for MP as well. If she has to take either or both of these courses, that is going to make time away even longer.

What happens when she is working shift and can't be home for their birthday party, parent teacher interview, when they graduate kindergarten, have a doctor or dental appointment, wake up sick and can't go to school, have to stay late to finish up processing an impaired driver, when it is a school holiday, who is going to babysit when you are away and she has to work a night shift...? For what it is worth, over the course of my career I have seen a ton of great female MP either quit or OT after they had kids and realized that working a 12 hour shift on a 28 day cycle was not conducive to how they wanted to be as a parent. Edit to add: But I have also seen a ton of people make it work because they had realistic expectations and a plan in place.

I really think you guys haven't had a realistic discussion on what the demands of a career in the CAF or any police service makes upon a family and what you are going to have to sacrifice to make either work. The only one responsible for coming up with a  plan to make your family life work with the career are you and your wife. Although accommodations can be made at times, they have to be reasonable and what you are asking for right now isn't reasonable by any stretch of the imagination.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 18:03:37 by garb811 »

Offline Inf613

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Re: Married Service Couples (MSC) - Family during Training
« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2019, 20:27:37 »
Thank you very much for all the quick responses everyone. Lots of great info aswell. We figured the course is 6 months bexause they are still advertising on the forces jobs site that it is a 6 month course.