Author Topic: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )  (Read 551361 times)

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Offline amgreen87

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1050 on: May 23, 2017, 11:33:40 »
Mine came in late last week just doing up the acceptance now.

Offline Sabaton

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1051 on: May 26, 2017, 06:12:40 »
going MSE Op so happy my past trade only let 5 VOT out a year.

Offline dakotachristensen

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1052 on: June 26, 2017, 11:40:13 »
Hi there,

A little about me: I'm a highschool graduate, with my heart set upon a career with the Canadian Forces. I'm extremely physically fit, bright, ambitious and dedicated. I'm a fast learner, with a good level head on my shoulders and a love for a good physical and mental challenge.

I'm currently applying to the ROTP and hoping to attend at RMC next Fall. I've been pre-selected, written and aced the CFAT, and am now waiting to hear back from the recruiting centre about dates for next steps. After boundless hours of research and deliberation, I'm still having trouble deciding upon my chosen career path, with my final deliberation being between pilot (specifically rotary) and infantry officer. I also have a definite interest/ambition of working towards joining CANSOFCOM (CSOR, JTF2, etc.)

Is there anyone out there who might be able to offer me a little guidance, and shed some additional light on the key distinctions between these two career paths, their inherent lifestyles, pros/cons of each, etc. and help me better make the decision between the two?

Much thanks.

P.S. The other post here on army.ca with the same topic headline of "Pilot vs. Infantry Officer" doesn't quite have the same answers/information that I'm looking for
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 15:31:25 by dakotachristensen »

Offline mariomike

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1053 on: June 26, 2017, 12:00:06 »
Is there anyone out there who might be able to offer me a little guidance, and shed some additional light on the key distinctions between these two career paths, their inherent lifestyles, pros/cons of each, etc. and help me better make the decision between the two?

The "So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=12744.0
55 pages.

Infantry Officer
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mi9RWZCcENGR8QfMn6rYAg&gws_rd=ssl#spf=1498492827469

I also have a definite interest/ambition of working towards joining CANSOFCOM (CSOR, JTF2, etc.)

CANSOFCOM
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mi9RWZCcENGR8QfMn6rYAg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+cansofcom&spf=1498492827472

CSOR
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mi9RWZCcENGR8QfMn6rYAg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+csor&spf=1498492827474

JTF2
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+%22infantry+officer%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=mi9RWZCcENGR8QfMn6rYAg&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+jtf2&spf=1498492827476
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 12:10:15 by mariomike »

Offline Loachman

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1054 on: June 26, 2017, 12:27:10 »
One flies a bunch, and sometimes carries the other in the back of his machine.

One walks and runs a bunch, and sometimes rides in the back of the other's machine.

But seriously, please take the time and explore this Site and read the pertinent older threads herein - there's a ton of valuable information available to you already.

There is no need to re-state what has been written before; it only wastes others' valuable time, adds clutter which makes it more challenging for people to search through, and deprives you of the opportunity to learn as you go.

Apply for both. Undergo the selection processes - you may or may not qualify for both. Should you pass Aircrew Selection and proceed onto flying training, you will experience, among other things, a phenomenal amount of homework. You may as well start to get used to that early.

Along the way, you will stumble across answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1055 on: June 28, 2017, 10:23:05 »
Hi there,

A little about me: I'm a highschool graduate, with my heart set upon a career with the Canadian Forces. I'm extremely physically fit, bright, ambitious and dedicated. I'm a fast learner, with a good level head on my shoulders and a love for a good physical and mental challenge.

I'm currently applying to the ROTP and hoping to attend at RMC next Fall. I've been pre-selected, written and aced the CFAT, and am now waiting to hear back from the recruiting centre about dates for next steps. After boundless hours of research and deliberation, I'm still having trouble deciding upon my chosen career path, with my final deliberation being between pilot (specifically rotary) and infantry officer. I also have a definite interest/ambition of working towards joining CANSOFCOM (CSOR, JTF2, etc.)

Is there anyone out there who might be able to offer me a little guidance, and shed some additional light on the key distinctions between these two career paths, their inherent lifestyles, pros/cons of each, etc. and help me better make the decision between the two?

Much thanks.

P.S. The other post here on army.ca with the same topic headline of "Pilot vs. Infantry Officer" doesn't quite have the same answers/information that I'm looking for

You could always just do what lots of others have in the past: try for pilot then, when you fail out, go Infantry and make a real difference (cringing now, waiting for incoming :))
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Terminal

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1056 on: June 28, 2017, 11:29:32 »
One flies a bunch, and sometimes carries the other in the back of his machine.

One walks and runs a bunch, and sometimes rides in the back of the other's machine.

But seriously, please take the time and explore this Site and read the pertinent older threads herein - there's a ton of valuable information available to you already.

There is no need to re-state what has been written before; it only wastes others' valuable time, adds clutter which makes it more challenging for people to search through, and deprives you of the opportunity to learn as you go.

Apply for both. Undergo the selection processes - you may or may not qualify for both. Should you pass Aircrew Selection and proceed onto flying training, you will experience, among other things, a phenomenal amount of homework. You may as well start to get used to that early.

Along the way, you will stumble across answers to questions that have not even occurred to you yet.

I'd go with this.

Put Pilot down as #1, Inf O as #2. You'll have to go to the Aircrew Selection during the application process (aptitude and the most in-depth assessment medical you'll ever get), and the pass rate is about 30%, so if you don't make the cut you can go Infantry Officer where after university you'll do your Infantry Officer courses and also face a low pass rate (believe it or not, Infantry Officer is not an easy job and the training is quite demanding both mentally and physically)

Offline Loachman

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1057 on: June 28, 2017, 12:13:48 »
We were told, during my early flying training, that one out of every eight hundred applicants receives his (and now her, too) Wings.

That number has not likely changed.

It is more than worth pursuing, and more than worth the effort.

Offline Ayrsayle

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1058 on: June 28, 2017, 14:40:39 »
I'd go with this.

Put Pilot down as #1, Inf O as #2. You'll have to go to the Aircrew Selection during the application process (aptitude and the most in-depth assessment medical you'll ever get), and the pass rate is about 30%, so if you don't make the cut you can go Infantry Officer where after university you'll do your Infantry Officer courses and also face a low pass rate (believe it or not, Infantry Officer is not an easy job and the training is quite demanding both mentally and physically)

For clarity, the pass rate for DP 1.1 (Commonly known as Phase 3, or Dismounted Platoon Commander Course) usually hovers around a 50% failure rate, though I've been told it has gotten a little better since I attended.  It remains a very demanding course.  Failure rates for the other courses required to become qualified are not as high, but none of the courses are "easy".

Best guess (and I don't have the hard numbers for it) - I'd say about 1:3 to 1:4 make it through all aspects of training to become fully qualified (from Enrollment to qualified that is).

As far as your interest in CANSOFCOM, it entirely depends on what kind of role you want to do with that Organization (IE, Pilot?  Assaulter? other?).  CANSOFCOM encompasses a number of organizations and each of them have their own requirements for manning.  I'd focus more on completing the initial training process and getting qualified for the CAF however. 

Good luck!
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Offline ballz

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1059 on: June 28, 2017, 17:58:02 »
Best guess (and I don't have the hard numbers for it) - I'd say about 1:3 to 1:4 make it through all aspects of training to become fully qualified (from Enrollment to qualified that is).

I've heard 1 out of 13 which I thought was pretty realistic. This brings up a good sidebar though... do our HR people track this stuff? I'd love to see the numbers. You'd think they would have to have a pretty good idea.... or maybe they don't and that's why we always seem to be massively under or massively over PMLs.
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Offline BushyCentaur

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1060 on: June 29, 2017, 01:05:26 »
Hey guys, I'm currently in Esquimalt on the new Mar Tech course. I originally joined as an Etech and was not made aware of the trade amalgamation until I arrived here on PAT. I'm only a few weeks in to my course right now and I'm considering attempting a VOT - is this still possible or is it to late?

I've received a lot of comforting information about the course but the amalgamation (as well as changes in my life since originally submitting my paperwork) have just changed a lot of things for me. I'm wanting to try for vehicle tech.

Any thoughts?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1061 on: June 29, 2017, 07:10:25 »
VOT (Occupation Transfer) isn't what you'd be looking for, you are looking for a VOR or Occupation Reassignment (Transfer is for folks who've served in a trade before, qualified and have usually 48 months of service.

I am not sure if the Basic Training Admin Guide is still in play or if it has changed much since the last version I have (I am not at work right now so can't verify if it's still in use).  However...from the BTAG:

Occupation Reassignment

214. Overview Occupation reassignment is roughly equivalent to occupation transfer (OT), except that it applies to personnel on the SUTL or BTL who are not yet occupation qualified in their current occupation. This includes personnel who were previously qualified in another occupation (eg OTs, CFRs, component transfers, etc). While the basic process is very similar to that for OT, there are some specific policies affecting reassignment which are quite different.  Reassignment, like OT, is an integral part of CF retention initiatives and seeks to balance the career choices and aspirations of individual CF personnel with the legitimate needs of the service.

216. Eligibility – Voluntary Reassignment

Personnel on the BTL/SUTL may request voluntary reassignment as indicated below:

a. BTL NCMs – after BMQ. May apply at any time after completion of BMQ and before completion of occupation training. May only request from voluntary list and may be limited out of under-strength occupations;

e. The trainee shall submit a written request through his chain of command clearly indicating the new MOSID(s) to which he/she is requesting VOR or, if the trainee has no new MOSID in mind and wishes to investigate what other MOSIDs for which he/she may be qualified. In the written request the trainee will clearly indicate what his/her career intentions (release or remain in current MOSID) should the trainee be deemed not suitable for VOR or the trainees decide that the MOSIDs offered are not personally acceptable. Personnel requesting a VOR will not normally be permitted to cease training. However, the Basic Training Manager, in consultation with the Training Establishment, may decide that the trainee will be removed from training if capacity issues and/or administrative or disciplinary problems prove that the trainee is a disruptive influence or otherwise unacceptable presence on the a course.

If this policy isn't in place anymore, there should be one similar to replace it.  Best place for that info (IMO) is the Base Personnel Selection Office.  They usually have a page on the Base IntraNet site and usually have links to the various programs and policies.  If you go onto the DWAN as well and look in the CFAOs, find CFAO 11-12 and see what it says about  MOC Reassignment.  AFAIK, the CFAO has still not been superseded by a DAOD so is still applic policy.

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Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1062 on: June 29, 2017, 10:37:27 »
Pilot down as #1
Inf O as #2

Please note that contrary to popular belief this does not mean that Pilot is your #1 pick and InfO is your #2 pick (i.e. you want to be processed for Pilot BEFORE InfO). 

If the CAF needs InfO and you have put InfO down, you will be processed for InfO.  There are cases where the occupations that people list as #2 or #3 are what they receive offers for.  If you want to be processed for Pilot and REALLY only want pilot, leave Pilot as your only selection.  If you then fail the selection process, there is a reorientation process that occurs and that is when you would state that you're interested in InfO.

Offline Terminal

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1063 on: June 29, 2017, 10:59:18 »
Please note that contrary to popular belief this does not mean that Pilot is your #1 pick and InfO is your #2 pick (i.e. you want to be processed for Pilot BEFORE InfO). 

If the CAF needs InfO and you have put InfO down, you will be processed for InfO.  There are cases where the occupations that people list as #2 or #3 are what they receive offers for.  If you want to be processed for Pilot and REALLY only want pilot, leave Pilot as your only selection.  If you then fail the selection process, there is a reorientation process that occurs and that is when you would state that you're interested in InfO.

Based on my experience going through this process, and having worked in recuriting, this is bad advice.

Typically you apply under different entry plans. The occupations within the plan generally all report the same time, so if you are accepted for your #1 choice, it will be given to you first in most cases. Either way, offers are usually open for 21 days, so it's unlikely that you'll be in a position where you have to accept the #2 choice with the #1 not having already ruled you out.

Secondly, if you go through the pilot recruitng i means you have to go through the Air Crew Medical (toronto) and Air Crew Selection courses (trenton) prior to offers being issued. I can guarentee you, if you make it through selection course and the medical, and the pilot selection board chooses you, there's no chance that someone in recuiting goes "no, we're going to make him Infantry Officer".

Finally if you didn't get selected for Pilot but didn't put Inf Officer as a preference, don't expect to be given another trade. Expect that no to your only choice means try again next year.

Offline Buck_HRA

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1064 on: June 29, 2017, 11:49:18 »
Just a follow up, the timing it takes for someone to make it through Air Crew Medical/Selection, an offer for Infantry Officer could already be made.

While the system is set up as "choice #1", "choice #2", "choice #3"; the realistic way to look at it is "choice #1", "choice #1", "choice #1".  I've seen plenty of times where people have picked either Pilot, Military Police, or Military Police Officer - all of which require extra testing - as their #1 pick; and another occupation as their #2 pick be given their #2 pick as an offer. 

Finally if you didn't get selected for Pilot but didn't put Inf Officer as a preference, don't expect to be given another trade. Expect that no to your only choice means try again next year.
Please do not give this advise out.  As someone currently working in the Recruiting system I can tell you that the current process when someone does not qualify for their selected occupation is reorientation and the choice to select a new occupation.  In no way do we force people to wait until the new Fiscal Year to select a new occupation.

Offline Terminal

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1065 on: June 29, 2017, 20:48:33 »
ISS and VOTs are rolling in!

I'm lucky to get out of the reddest NCM trade in the Forces :)

Now I just got to change my name....

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1066 on: June 30, 2017, 10:04:00 »
Congrats...what are you switching to?
Everything happens for a reason.

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Offline Terminal

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1067 on: June 30, 2017, 14:56:11 »
Congrats...what are you switching to?

00183 Plt

Offline comfortablynumb

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1068 on: June 30, 2017, 15:13:06 »
Congrats!

Offline EADAM(I like this site: five star)

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1069 on: June 30, 2017, 16:36:41 »
I have a question for you : Why do you want to change Your trade from Etech to VOT because I m red seal electrician and I like Etech  . Currently you are starting your course at esquimalt bc. Did you find something different from what you have expected? Please explain more in order to help you thanks . :cdn:

Offline Sabaton

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1070 on: June 30, 2017, 16:44:56 »
I was offer a position this year has MSEOP.I will soon be submitting a PLAR in order to have my QL3 wave .I am crossing my finger .

Offline BushyCentaur

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1071 on: June 30, 2017, 16:53:58 »
I have a question for you : Why do you want to change Your trade from Etech to VOT because I m red seal electrician and I like Etech  . Currently you are starting your course at esquimalt bc. Did you find something different from what you have expected? Please explain more in order to help you thanks . :cdn:

Well because I joined as an Etech, showed up here in Esquimalt and was told I'm not longer an Etech and am now a Mar Tech and my new course is a year long. That, and they have no idea about any other courses right now outside of QL3 which is quite annoying for somebody trying to plan his career. I get they have a general idea of the where the trade is going and whatnot but I can't get a single answer about the time for anything after ql3 and though I know this isn't uncommon in the military, it's discouraging. Just overall the lack of answers of any sort of what happens after QL3.

Hell, outside of that, I can't even get a straight answer on how much I'll be sailing. Don't get me wrong, I joined the Navy expecting to sail and I understand it totally depends on what ship you're on. But it would be nice to recieve a straight answer on what the average year of sailing is like. IE: non operation, average length of time gone on each sail and average amount of sails a year and whatnot.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1072 on: June 30, 2017, 17:28:03 »
00183 Plt

Are you a Sig O now?  If you're ACISS like I think, did you go via UTPNCM?

And..congrats!  The blue side is pretty awesome IMO and flying for a living is a good go.
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.

Offline Terminal

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1073 on: July 02, 2017, 00:26:43 »
Are you a Sig O now?  If you're ACISS like I think, did you go via UTPNCM?

And..congrats!  The blue side is pretty awesome IMO and flying for a living is a good go.

Did a Business degree a few years back. First applied special commissioning plan as Log O couple of years ago but got rejected  ::) I either got better at writing applications or Log O is more selective than anyone could ever predict.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )
« Reply #1074 on: July 02, 2017, 08:13:30 »
Copy...well good luck and welcome to the blue side!
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.