Author Topic: Construction Engineers (Formerly Airfield Engineers)  (Read 36506 times)

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Yard Ape

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Construction Engineers (Formerly Airfield Engineers)
« on: March 20, 2001, 13:30:00 »
Who are the Air Force Engineers that I keep seeing around the larger bases?

  :cool: Yard Ape

Offline Soldier of Fortune

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2001, 18:05:00 »
If you go to www.recruiting.dnd.ca  then hit english,then air force symbol, then click air field engineers it will tell you all about all of them.
hope it helps.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2001, 23:03:00 »
The trades for engineers within the airforce are as follows:
Airfield Engineering Officer
Firefighter
Refrigeration & Mechanical Technician
Electrical Distribution Technician
Electrical Generation System Technician
Plumbing & Heating Technician
Water, Fuels & Environmental Technician
Construction technician
 
At a quick glance one can see that for the most part these are "purple" trades and the only airforce only trades are the Airfield engineer and the firefighter.  Here is the CFRC pitch for Airfield Engineers:

 
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 Airfield Engineer (46)

If you are an Airfield Engineering Officer... Keeping the runways open is what it‘s all about...
 
The Airfield Engineering Officer‘s job is to operate in support of an air base to assist the air force to live, fly and fight.

You will be trained in the skills necessary to keep our airfields functional. You will plan, develop and implement airfield engineering field training, which involves military engineering tasks and projects, including preparation or approval of drawings, specifications, standards and estimates of cost in manpower, money and materials for both static and deployed operations. You will provide advice, maintain liaison on military engineering matters, and exercise leadership and technical control over all organisations involved in engineering services, including the administration and control of manpower, funds and material. This is no picnic. It is not an easy task, but you will be trained to do the job. You will also be trained as a leader, to co-ordinate the activities of the engineers under your command.

You will be trained to lead the engineers under your command. You will practice your new set of skills with real equipment. You will learn the capabilities of engineering equipment. You will go anywhere?anytime. You will learn to work in mountains, jungles and deserts with the same skill as you would in your own backyard. Sun, rain, snow, day or night...it does not matter to you...the Airfield Engineering Officer.

You are trained in basic and advanced construction engineering skills. Building runways and helipads will become commonplace. You will be versed in the employment of heavy construction equipment as well as rifles and machine guns.

Airfield Engineering squadrons may be deployed on United Nations or NATO missions. These are not always in the best places... no vacation spot. Sometimes you will be asked to repair a school or hospital. It is all part of the job.

From your first day of training you will be expected to be a leader and make decisions. To put your engineers first and yourself last.

If you like to work out-of-doors in a unique and challenging job, a career as an Airfield Engineering Officer might be for you.
 

As far as Airfield Engineer squadrons, the only ones I know of are reserve.  Airfield Engineers do find employment withing 1 CEU (Construction Engineering Unit) along side their army counterparts.  persons of this trade will likely find themselves employed in a base CE position.

On an historical note the Airfield Engineer is the revival of the RCAF construction Engineering Branch which disapeared after unification.  It probably would have been more efficient to introduce a new "purple" engineer trade which would have adopted the historical roles of the RCAF Construction Engineering Branch, the RCN Civil Engineers, and the RCE Works Branch.  This would have left Army Engineers solely with the historical role of the RCE Feild Branch.  But . . . if in practice the AF Engineer works the same way as my "purple" suggestion it doesn‘t realy matter.

Here is an official description of the histroical roles filled by different engineers prior to unification:
 
Quote
 The Canadian Forces Reoganization Act in 1968 brought the military engineers of the three environmental elements (Royal Canadian Navy - RCN, Canadian Army and Royal Canadian Air Force - RCAF) together to form the "Canadian Military Engineer Branch (CME)" in 1971. The RCN Civil Engineers began at the start of WW II and its chief works were the construction of bases, buildings and augmenting existing dock facilities. The Army element consisted of the RCE field units supporting the field force and the RCE Works Companies providing construction support to Army bases. The RCAF Construction Engineering Branch began in 1939 due to the magnitude of the Commonwealth Air Training Plan and its mandate consisted of providing fire fighting services as well as construction of immense numbers of hangars, buildings, power plants radar sites and runways.

For the more details take a look at the History of the Canadian Military Engineers

Yard Ape

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2001, 11:53:00 »
Are the army engineers the only ones considered combat arms?

Offline Soldier of Fortune

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2001, 19:23:00 »
What is "Combat Arms," does it mean that they are trained for combat?
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ender

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2001, 21:29:00 »
SOF,

Combat arms means we are the ones at the sharp end of the stick.  Not logistics or support or whatnot.
Supposodly everyone in the CF should be able to fight if pressed, but it the combat arms job to fight.

Combat Engineers (or Feild Engineers) build bridges and clear minefields and obstilces, under fire if nessesary.  We are right up there with the infantry, often ahead of them. (they can‘t cross the river without us)  Our secondary role is to fight as infantry.  So that‘s why we are combat arms.

Yard Ape,
I think so, but I‘m not sure.  The CE people have the same cap badge as ours I think, and they also have CHIMO.  They arn‘t really combat arms in the same way as we (041) are anyway.

Yard Ape

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2001, 10:08:00 »
Confirm that by "Purple trade" you mean an MOC which is not exclusive to one element.  Like MP, Log, etc.

  :cool: Yard Ape

Offline MCG

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Re: Air Force Engineers?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2001, 00:56:00 »
Yes.  A purple trade is not exclusivly army, navy or air.  It exists in two or all three of the elements.

Spr Earl

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Air Field Engineers
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2001, 02:17:00 »
A.E.F.‘s also contain E.O.D. who are 041‘s who do this job as it‘s still an Army tasking.

Offline rifleman

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Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2008, 20:19:16 »
Airfield Engineers are now known as Construction Engineers

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2008, 20:33:48 »
Any sources for this?
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline MCG

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2008, 20:36:58 »
Quote
NAME CHANGE OF AIRFIELD ENGINEERING (AF ENGR)
TO CONSTRUCTION ENGINEERING (CONST ENGR)

Refs: A. 4500-3 (D Air PPD 2) 24 January 2007
B. UNCLASS DGPR 026/07 121519Z December 2007

1. The CF recruiting establishment continues to face challenges in attracting candidates for the Airfield Engineering occupation (AF ENGR - MOSID 00189). Clearly, the current name is not reflective of the jobs performed by members of this occupation, is not aligned with the NCM Construction Engineering occupations, and is not conducive to recruiting.

2. Following considerable analysis and discussions at many different forums, CAS/DG Air Pers submitted a formal request (ref A) to rename MOSID 00189 from the current Airfield Engineering to Construction Engineering (CONST ENGR) and the request was recently approved by CMP/DGMP (ref B) to be effective on 01 January 2008. The new name more appropriately describes the jobs performed by its officers, is better aligned with its NCM Construction Engineering occupations, and will help in the recruitment of quality applicants.

3. In November 2007, renaming MOSID 00189 AF ENGR to CONST ENGR was endorsed by the CME Branch Council and it advised that this name change does not imply a name change for MOSID 00181 ENGR.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2008, 20:39:37 »
Thank you...so the Airfield Engineering Flights that are around, will they be renamed?
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline MCG

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 20:41:59 »
Yes
Quote
4. There will be no structural change to the newly named Construction Engineering occupation and career management remains the same as for the Airfield Engineering occupation. In addition, there will be no conversion training required and the training documents will be updated to reflect the new name. Construction Engineers will remain part of the Canadian Military Engineering branch with CAS as the career field/occupation manager and the DEU for all new officers will remain air environmental.

5. In addition to the name change from the current Airfield Engineering to Construction Engineering, several other title and designation changes will be required, mainly within 1 Canadian Air Division HQ but also at the wing/unit level.  As a general rule, the word “Airfield” will be simply replaced by “Construction”.

This is the last text of any value.  There are some charts included in the doc, but I'm not cutting those over.

Offline rifleman

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 20:49:40 »
Thanks for the references, I didn't have access to it here.
 My understanding is any units named Airfield under the CFOOs will have to go through an official change.

Offline BernDawg

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2008, 20:55:44 »
Roger that!  As of Jan 1 we (in Comox) are 191 CEF vice 191 AEF.
"We can't all be heroes... because someone has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by."  Will Rogers
Someone has to be last.  At least if it's me I know where all the assholes are.

aesop081

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2008, 20:56:54 »
Last year's news.........

Offline JustAnotherZoomie

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2008, 21:21:23 »
Last year's news.........

You are the master of the unnecessary statement, aren't you?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2008, 21:49:17 »
Roger that!  As of Jan 1 we (in Comox) are 191 CEF vice 191 AEF.

Officially, nothing changes until the minister signs a new Ministerial Organizational Order; once that's done the Canadian Forces Organizational Order will follow.

Units and HQs do have a tendency to get ahead of the official processes, though...
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Re: Airfield Engineers - no more
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2008, 21:52:27 »
Are sub-units named in a CFOO?

Offline WaitingTime

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number of AF ENG positions
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2008, 06:23:06 »
I was just wondering how many AF ENG positions are currenty available.  Is AF ENG a popular choice for officer applications?  How competitive is it?  I read somewhere that one of the reasons for the recent name change from airfield engineer to construction engineer is because airfield engineer does not describe the actual job very well.  Consequently, they changed to name to attract more recruits to the trade.  If that is the case, then I would imagine that positions probably aren't filling up for AF ENG? 

Offline rifleman

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Re: number of AF ENG positions
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 06:44:09 »
The Constr Engrs (formerly known as AF Engr) is always looking for more. The change was also driven by the fact they can be involved in Ops across all elements, land, air and sea, not just on an airfield.

Offline WaitingTime

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Re: number of AF ENG positions
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 06:48:10 »
Thank you for the quick reply.  I have done my medical and interview a couple of weeks ago so I suppose I'll just have to sit tight and wait for my call. 

Offline WaitingTime

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AF ENG location
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2008, 18:24:21 »
where do AF ENG get posted after occupational training?  I did the search and came up with Cold lake, AB and Trenton, ON.  Are those the only two bases we are stationed in or do we get to stay on the reserve base too?

Offline MCG

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Re: AF ENG location
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2008, 18:28:40 »
AF Engr no longer exist.  They are now Construction Engineers.  You will find them in any of the old airfield engineer flights & squadrons, in 1 Engineer Support Unit (Moncton NB), and potentially any base CE organization (though the Army types often have those jobs on Army oriented bases).