Author Topic: DUI - Effects on Joining?  (Read 91010 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2011, 08:16:50 »
Also, if university education is what you want, you need to work on your spelling ie "elgible" and "persue."  From personal experience I can tell you that there is no mercy for an officer or officer wannabe with poor English skills.

 ;D

That should include "double negatives".  I found this amusing:

Well I definately won't be doing that, nor do I have nothing to hide.

Thank you.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2011, 21:12:56 »
I'll be perfectly blunt, and this isn't to 'bash' you, this is to situate you properly. The CF is not a dumping ground for those lacking the judgment to make it in other careers.

As a matter of policy, all legal obligations must be discharged before your application will go anywhere. This will likely include sentencing conditions such as any period of probation. If you 'beat' the charge as you put it, the CF cannot discriminate against you in terms of employment, though it's possible that it may still affect your application for MP. The MPs are, after all, a police force. You must prove yourself to be possessed of the maturity and judgement to be entrusted with the role they fill even here at home.

If you are convicted, then you are a convicted criminal and will have a substantially harder time getting into the C.F. MP is out, as is undoubtedly medical officer. The recruiting for Med O is a different thing altogether anyway, but I cannot conceive of the C.F. taking someone who's just gotten a DUI and paying their way through med school. Firefighter is also very hard to get into directly, most (if not all) people getting in are transfers form other trades. I do not imagine you would be competitive with no military experience and a recent criminal conviction.

Past whatever mandated waiting period there is post conviction you will still, with a criminal record, be competing for any job with those without one. The C.F. attracts a lot of recruits, and the doors aren't exactly open these days.  Put it this way: if a civilian police force, firefighting organization, or medical school wouldn't take you under these conditions, why should the military?

That's not to say you will not be successful in getting into the CF at all, but you've named three trades that range from somewhat to extremely ambitious. Check with the recruiters, but also realize that your judgment will be distrusted for quite some time to come. I would hope, frankly, that with our recruiting intake being as limited as it is that you would not be considered competitive for several years at least. Play it straight and prove to the military that you deserve a spot. If convicted, you'll be starting with a hell of a disadvantage.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline pontcanna

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2011, 17:47:47 »
If convicted, my best guess would be that the sentence would have to be satisfied and a pardon granted. How long that takes depends on whether Crown proceeds with the charge as a summary or indictable offence (impaired/.08 is a hybrid offence, I believe). Pardon can be granted after 5 years for an indictable conviction and 3 years for summary conviction.

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2011, 23:34:04 »
Good luck and I sincerely hope you walk away with a conditional or suspended sentence.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 11:03:23 by jcan »

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2011, 23:37:46 »
a large donation to a charity in the judges name. It happens all the time!!

That sounds awfully close to the line of what a bribe is... that judge will get tax credit for the donation, effectively giving him/her money.

aesop081

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2011, 23:40:12 »
Ahh....legal advice from random anonymous strangers on the internet.

Always reliable of course.........

 ::)

Offline Container

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2011, 00:00:00 »
nevermind. What an officer you'll make- suggesting people misrepresent themselves to the court and drag their feet and burden the system.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 00:10:50 by Container »
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2011, 10:02:08 »
nevermind. What an officer you'll make- suggesting people misrepresent themselves to the court and drag their feet and burden the system.
Well, to be fair to the officers, although Jaycan's profile claims he's a Naval Cadet, his posts say he hasn't even done his CFAT yet. There's a history of misrepresentation.

Of course, he did show up with a masters degree, stating that the Recruiter's "eyes light up when she saw that. I felt from that moment on she was catering to me" -- I've no doubt that Recruiters have multiple orgasms when such unabashed awesomeness walks in; probably no misrepresentation there.   ;)

Offline martr

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2011, 10:47:55 »
That sounds awfully close to the line of what a bribe is... that judge will get tax credit for the donation, effectively giving him/her money.

I was thinking the same thing; isn't that a bribe?

A large donation under your own name, sure.. but under the name of the person deciding your fate in an effort to get a better (for you) decision?

For fun, I looked into the definition of bribery:
Bribery, a form of corruption, is an act implying money or gift given that alters the behavior of the recipient.

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2011, 11:17:44 »
Tax receipts are not issued if through a court. And you write it in the judges name for administrative purposes to keep track of who rendered the sentence and that it is indeed from a court. The judge receives no tax credit, nor do you. Under charity law, to qualify as a gift a payment must be voluntary. A payment that results from a court order, even if the taxpayer was given a choice between making a payment and some other penalty, cannot be said to be voluntary. Therefore, if a company or individual is ordered by a court to give money to charity, the charity cannot issue an official donation receipt for the amount it receives. If needed, the charity can issue an ordinary receipt to acknowledge such a payment.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 11:27:50 by jcan »

Offline martr

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2011, 11:25:26 »
Thank you!! I will fall asleep less stupid today!  :)

aesop081

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2011, 11:27:24 »
Tax receipts are not issued if through a court. And you write it in the judges name for administrative purposes to keep track of who rendered the sentence. Under charity law, to qualify as a gift a payment must be voluntary. A payment that results from a court order, even if the taxpayer was given a choice between making a payment and some other penalty, cannot be said to be voluntary. Therefore, if a company or individual is ordered by a court to give money to charity, the charity cannot issue an official donation receipt for the amount it receives. If needed, the charity can issue an ordinary receipt to acknowledge such a payment.

Lovely........more anonymous legal advice...........

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2011, 11:34:55 »
yup and thanks for reading
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 11:49:41 by jcan »

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2011, 11:36:02 »
Deleting the offending thread is good.

However, upon changing your name from jaycan to the much more creative jcan, you may wish to read this from the DS:
Quote
Changing Your User Name
.....seeing a new name online, can really annoy the Staff. We do respect your right for privacy so it is requested should you wish to change your name, let the Staff know so at least we can keep track of our members here.


Just doing my bit to make the stay of those members who find reading the guidelines too onerous, a little less miserable.   :)

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2011, 11:40:35 »
I would first start by saying my comment was not in any way "offending." No race, group, individual, plant or planet was made a target or criticized in any form.

And secondly, thanks for the info.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2011, 11:49:09 »
I would first start by saying my comment was not in any way "offending."
Then why did you choose to delete it?

aesop081

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2011, 11:50:45 »
Perhaps the "integrity" you've said I lack can start with you.

I never said you lacked integrity.....I implied you lacked credibility.

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2011, 11:52:20 »
Because I believed we lost touch with what the actual question was all about, and if by deleting my 4 advice points would steer us back on course, than it was worth discarding. I just would like to underline that in no way or form was I ever offensive to anyone, and unless you can show otherwise, then I would retract the use of that word.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 11:58:01 by jcan »

Offline Container

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2011, 11:55:55 »
It was I who said you lack integrity. Assisting people in avoiding taking responsibility through misrepresentation is not demonstrating integrity- certainly not a quality of someone that I would like to have as a leader.
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2011, 12:00:17 »
It was I who said you lack integrity. Assisting people in avoiding taking responsibility through misrepresentation is not demonstrating integrity- certainly not a quality of someone that I would like to have as a leader.

I'll second that.

If, as an aspirant officer, your advice to an individual is to dissimulate, delay, and challenge the system rather than take accountability for his own actions, then I sincerely hope that you are unsuccessful in your application until such time as you've given your head a shake and adjusted your value set. Joining the military isn't 'winning the game', it's proving that you are the sort of person that I as a junior leader either want working for me or want to work for, and that I as a taxpayer and citizen would want representing our collective values in the service of our country. I think both you and the original poster have some significant adjustments to make before you're fit for the job.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2011, 12:03:58 »


Again, if that is what you read then Iam truly sorry. However, what I did write and what I meant is that it would be a good idea for him to take responsibility first  by enrolling into a AA counseling group and 2) to go back to school to show that he is committed to his future and that a criminal record would impede his success. To undertake this after a charge is not misrepresentation, but rather reflection on the seriousness of his actions and the road blocks that a record creates to a life of productivity and success. That is what I wrote and if you feel that is misrepresenting oneself, than to each is own, no? Bottom line is...take responsibility and demonstrate it to the court by doing the above and much more.


delay, and challenge the system?   Damn right u challenge the system and delay to get your life back on track before you face a judge. I am not going to speculate, but if you were ever in a position that your entire life would change for the negative, you would do everything in your power to challenge things. I am damn proud to say that I live in a country where I can challenge evidence and I can delay  so I can get back on track. You can have your opinion on me and how some navigate our legal system, but I would not condone a person for challenging evidence or allegations made against them or for delaying things so he can deliver a good defense. We tend to discredit other countries that immediately impose sentence on an individual without the chance for the accuse to challenge evidence or mount a good defense, and correct me if I am wrong, but I am certain we have lost hundreds of good men/women in bringing those liberties to others, and yet you imply you are less of a Canadian/soldier/person if you do exercise those rights?  You are no less of a person if you do mount a strong challenge and a strong tactic in clearing your name.   And to think that my stance on this would make me a bad officer is just petty.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:25:04 by jcan »

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2011, 12:04:19 »
Because I believed we lost touch with what the actual question was all about, and if by deleting my 4 advice points would steer us back on course, than it was worth discarding. I just would like to underline that in no way or form was I ever offensive to anyone.

jcan/jaycan

It now appears that you really are not an honest participant in these threads.  You have completely removed a post that has been replied to several times, and now this whole thread is disjointed and convoluted due to your actions.  Your credibility has suffered much by your actions.  If we have to rely on quoting you with every reply we make, so as to maintain the flow of the discussion for future readers, we may have to consider you a TROLL.  I hope that this has been a single incident and not to become a common practice of yours.

DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2011, 12:16:40 »
I just would like to underline that in no way or form was I ever offensive to anyone, and unless you can show otherwise, then I would retract the use of that word.
Allow me to explain the meaning of "offensive":
Quote
of·fen·sive   
–adjective
1. causing resentful displeasure; highly irritating, angering, or annoying: offensive television commercials.
2. unpleasant or disagreeable to the sense: an offensive odor.
3. repugnant to the moral sense, good taste, or the like; insulting: an offensive remark; an offensive joke.

Based on the responses your post received, I'd suggest your explanation was perceived as displeasing, irritating and repugnant to the moral sense.

Now perhaps that's because we are from different communities; those who posted their annoyance and questioned your credibility and integrity are actually serving CF members -- personal integrity is valued.

You however, are a civie whose profile misrepresents you as a Naval Cadet and you posted information on how to utilize legal technicalities and foot-dragging techniques to "beat the system" -- no integrity has been demonstrated, and your post has been deemed to be offensive to this community's standards.


Ergo, no retraction of the word "offensive" is required.


Edit: typo, not to change what I've said so as to change the meaning of my posts once called on it.
 ;)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 12:20:59 by Journeyman »

Offline jcan

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2011, 12:50:10 »
I don't necessarily agree with your use of offensive in relation to what I have posted, but if you feel that it is used appropriately then I will respect your opinion and hope you can respect my disagreement. I do hope we can find comon ground on an issue soon enough.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Joining Canadian Forces with Pending DUI
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2011, 12:55:40 »
.....I would not condone a person for challenging evidence.....
Even with continually changing your posts you can't get it right: "condemn"

Quote
And to think that my stance on this would make me a bad officer is just petty.
Again, the people making said judgement are serving CF members, whose experience qualifies them to hold such opinions. It's not your lack of military experience, however, that has a growing number of forum members calling your judgement into question.

As for finding "common ground," it's appearing that all but one have found common ground; yet that one expects the others to "respect" him being the only one in step. I guess that's just another "military thing" -- that respect is earned.


So for me, I'm done here.     :brickwall:  gets tiresome.