Author Topic: Sigs are not Army?  (Read 23029 times)

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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Sigs are not Army?
« on: October 31, 2004, 20:40:14 »
Time for another poll folks.  What is your military or non military status?

Hey.... signals isn't on the list...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 12:49:37 by McG »

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2004, 21:40:10 »
Signals is a trade...the purpose of the poll was not to determine what a respondents trade was, otherwise I would have added infanteer, pilots etc in there.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2004, 22:04:32 »
Isn't a branch? Since when?

Communications and electronics branch, primarily made up of Lineman 052, Signals Operators 215, Aerospace and Telecommunications Information Systems Technician 227, Communicatior Research 291, Communications and Electronics Engineer Officer 83 and Signals Officers 84. These trades along with the requisite "purple" support trades make up the comunications and electronics branch. (My appologies to anyone I missed).

I don't know if the reg force communications unit use the same command badge, but I do know that the commres has it's own command badge, it's looks like a red globe, with a sword and two lightning bolts (Couldn't find a picture of it, but bottom left hand corner of this page http://www.img.forces.gc.ca/commRes/units/units_e.htm is the crest. Just remove the crown, gold rope, and gold leaves, and you've got the command badge)

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2004, 05:28:16 »
Just a Sig Op...what if you looked at the choices carefully you would understand the flavour of the poll.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2004, 08:09:23 »
Just a Sig Op...what if you looked at the choices carefully you would understand the flavour of the poll.

The flavour of the poll? Seems to list all the branches of potential service, military or para-military. So I reiterate, just for the purpose of future clarification, signals is not part of the army, though yes, the bulk of the work we do is army work. It's like going to the United States, and telling a marine that they're just in the army because they have to walk a lot, or they're just in the navy, because they have boats.

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2004, 16:57:07 »
When a person goes into Recruiting they are not given the options of Army, Navy, Air Froce or Signals. They are given Army, Navy and Air Force. Everyone else seem to get the meaning.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline Ditch

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2004, 17:35:03 »


<snip>   signals is not part of the army, though yes, the bulk of the work we do is army work...

You could say the same for cooks, veh techs, RMS clerks etc etc.   Signals are a purple trade group that have their own autonomy when it comes to their Unit operations.   For the purposes of this poll look down at your CADPAT nametag and click off the following:  
(1) if you see an ANCHOR - click NAVY
(2) if you see CROSSED SWORDS - click ARMY
(3) if you see an ALBATROSS/PIGEON/EAGLE/Whatever - click AIRFORCE

Only in the Reserves do you find a fourth element of the CF.   (ie Communication Reserves)

(cut and paste from DND.ca website)

History
The Communication Reserve history goes back to the beginning of the Century.   Some units trace their formation back to the Original Signals units created in 1903.   These units were the first dedicated Army Communication (Signals) units to be formed in Canada. In 1974, after a reorganization, the Communication Reserve adopted its current structure.


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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2004, 17:39:30 »


You could say the same for cooks, veh techs, RMS clerks etc etc.   Signals are a purple trade group that have their own autonomy when it comes to their Unit operations.   For the purposes of this poll look down at your CADPAT nametag and click off the following:  
(1) if you see an ANCHOR - click NAVY
(2) if you see CROSSED SWORDS - click ARMY
(3) if you see an ALBATROSS/PIGEON/EAGLE/Whatever - click AIRFORCE

Only in the Reserves do you find a fourth element of the CF.   (ie Communication Reserves)

(cut and paste from DND.ca website)

History
The Communication Reserve history goes back to the beginning of the Century.   Some units trace their formation back to the Original Signals units created in 1903.   These units were the first dedicated Army Communication (Signals) units to be formed in Canada. In 1974, after a reorganization, the Communication Reserve adopted its current structure.



Honestly, the poll doesn't really matter. I'm just making my point, and I shall continue to make my point.

You couldn't say the same thing about the purple trades, as the members of these trades still belong to an element. If you have a naval RMS clerk attached to an army unit, that doesn't mean they're suddenly in the army.

The comm res is a seperate branch.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 17:43:07 by Just a Sig Op »

Offline Mike Bobbitt

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2004, 18:18:19 »
Let's swap in 'component' for 'branch' in the previous discussion to make it clear...

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2004, 18:41:01 »
Come to think of it...i'm surprised that Mr "just a sig op" didnt point out that, in Canada, there is no air force, army, or navy !!  Officialy there are only the air, land force and maritime commands of the Canadian armed forces.

How's that for anal retentiveness ??

Shame on you "just a sig op"

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2004, 18:55:21 »
I really didn't care about the poll to begin with, it makes no great difference in my life. My initial post was really intended in more of a tongue in cheek manner in pointing out that I'm in the signals branch.

That being said, now I'm really just arguing for the sake of arguing, nothing more, mostly because, as I said... I'm not army... and I don't like being marginalized as such. Not because there's anything wrong with the army, but for the same reasons a PO1 would eat you for calling them a Warrant.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2004, 18:56:29 »
You guys are getting as bad as some of the Cadets. Agree to disagree and drop it.
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2004, 19:07:50 »
Sorry recceguy....Just if you did not like the poll no one forced you to take it. There was nothing stated you had to participate. As for your PO1 example that is totally out to lunch as its a naval rank. Naval personnel on predominate army and air force bases are used to being called as is army/air force on naval bases. You politely correct the mistake and move on. The only time I ever saw a PO lose it for being called the wrong rank was during BASIC.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline Ditch

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2004, 19:29:35 »
I love a good (if not inane) fight.

Again I will direct your eyes to your Nametape on your CADPAT uniform - if it has a bunch of crossed swords on it, you are a member of the Land Forces element of the CF.  (ie ARMY!) Until they put a bouncing Jimmy on your chest you will have to deal with that fact.  I'm not trying to marginalize you or your Corps, just trying to make reason.  If you drive ARMY vehicles, wear ARMY DEU, adopt ARMY tactics and go on ARMY courses - aren't you ARMY??  :warstory: (p.s. if u wear a bucket on ur head - that too is a good clue)  - Welcome to the ARMY!
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2004, 19:34:02 »
Quote
I'm not army

What are you then?

Quote
and I don't like being marginalized as such

Poor baby....
« Last Edit: November 02, 2004, 17:21:21 by Infanteer »
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Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2004, 19:46:34 »
I love a good (if not inane) fight.

Again I will direct your eyes to your Nametape on your CADPAT uniform - if it has a bunch of crossed swords on it, you are a member of the Land Forces element of the CF.   (ie ARMY!) Until they put a bouncing Jimmy on your chest you will have to deal with that fact.   I'm not trying to marginalize you or your Corps, just trying to make reason.   If you drive ARMY vehicles, wear ARMY DEU, adopt ARMY tactics and go on ARMY courses - aren't you ARMY??   :warstory: (p.s. if u wear a bucket on ur head - that too is a good clue)   - Welcome to the ARMY!

I to love a good inane fight, well, argument anyway, always hate resorting to violence... perfectly good beer always gets spilled... always a waste. Comes from a heritage in debating, while in highschool and in uniiversity. So rather then call this an argument, we shall call this a debate (And an unfortunate hijacking of poor Ex-Dragoon's thread, which is why I'm not going to bother to continue this, asI freely admit the arguing is a bit pointless, as functionally, yes, I could be considered army, though I am not actually army.)

After looking over my DEUs, I failed to note any insignia placing me in the army. After staring at them long and hard, I started to go cross eyed, and the one sword on my command badge started to become two... but suddenly there were also two maple leafs, which was equally confusing. Closing my eyes for a few seconds, my head cleared, and the sword returned to it's normal single state.

Regarding driving army vehicles and adoting army tactics, I've currently got my name in the hat for a deployment with the navy. If I manage to get it, I assume you'll conceed the fact that I'm not in the army, and must clearly be in the navy.

Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2004, 19:58:04 »
Quote
PO1 would eat you for calling them a Warrant.

Only while on a Naval vessel or a Naval base.

But even on a base or vessel, you couldn't get angry at the poor Army schmuck, because he wouldn't know the difference >:D.

(I was kidding, I don't want a problem on my hands)

Ok, back on topic.
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Offline Inch

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2004, 20:24:44 »
After looking over my DEUs, I failed to note any insignia placing me in the army. After staring at them long and hard, I started to go cross eyed, and the one sword on my command badge started to become two... but suddenly there were also two maple leafs, which was equally confusing. Closing my eyes for a few seconds, my head cleared, and the sword returned to it's normal single state.

Nothing on your DEU to signify that you're army eh? Are they green? Did you have collar dogs? Do you wear your rank on the collar of your short sleeve green shirt? Do you have a wedge or a Forge cap? If you answered, yes, yes, yes, no, then you're army, sorry you disagree, but I'll bet that if you look at your MPRR it says your element is land and not sigs.
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Offline axeman

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2004, 20:39:11 »


Only while on a Naval vessel or a Naval base.

But even on a base or vessel, you couldn't get angry at the poor Army schmuck, because he wouldn't know the difference >:D.

(I was kidding, I don't want a problem on my hands)

Ok, back on topic.

eh what ever ive called em warrant and they were happy that they were recognized . as opposed to hey you, which i have done and when ever they TRY to read my the riot act.  i just recall hey ive been jacked up by wayyyy  better .. ive been jacked up after ive returned fire  and this guys jacking my up for what?..
I'm not saying to kill all the stupid people . .. Just remove the warning labels and let nature run it's course

Offline Proud Forester

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2004, 23:04:17 »


Nothing on your DEU to signify that you're army eh? Are they green? Did you have collar dogs? Do you wear your rank on the collar of your short sleeve green shirt? Do you have a wedge or a Forge cap? If you answered, yes, yes, yes, no, then you're army, sorry you disagree, but I'll bet that if you look at your MPRR it says your element is land and not sigs.

bout to say almost the same thing, next tim eyou are in uniform, look at your self in a mirror, and tell us what colour your headdress is......im pretty sure there isnt a special colour for sigs.


oh and I am R031-reserve infantry. Though I am class B in Borden fixing computer for the Regional Cadet Headquaters.

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2004, 14:43:05 »
That being said, now I'm really just arguing for the sake of arguing, nothing more, mostly because, as I said... I'm not army... and I don't like being marginalized as such. Not because there's anything wrong with the army, but for the same reasons a PO1 would eat you for calling them a Warrant.

This happen all the time. They usually just correct you politely or make a joke about it. Just like when Im in OD and i get called private. I dont blow a gasket. I just tell 'em Im a squid.

I dont see how you consider being called "army" marginalizes you- you attitude does so to a much greater degree. You must be ever so popular with the "army" types you work with.

Offline Not a Sig Op

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2004, 23:13:01 »
*sigh* And I swore to myself that I wouldn't reply to this topic again. So much for self-discipline.

Being called "army" only marginalizes me in the sense that I'm not *technically* in the army. Yes, almost everything that I do is army work. Yes, we end up doing mostly army courses. Yes. I wear a green uniform. As I said, there's nothing wrong with the army. I'm just not technically *in* the army. The comm res is a seperate branch, as I've already pointed out.

Although since everyone wants to argue that I'm in the army anyway, I'd appreciate it if they'd bring the matter up with whoever is responsible for the honour gaurd for the governer general, as I was listening to an infanteer acquantince describe his time there with great interest, and it sounds like a particularly interesting call out, unfortunately, it's only open to members of the army. Members of the navy, air force, and yes, the comm res, are not eligible. So if you can convince them that I'm in the army, I'm all for it.

Offline axeman

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2004, 10:49:46 »
hey i just popped in here to see whats going on . hey got a question when did the tri service become a quad service? army airforce and navy . when did comm res. get added to its own branch . what colour is its berets and uniform ? i have a freiend in comms res and hes in the army .
I'm not saying to kill all the stupid people . .. Just remove the warning labels and let nature run it's course

Offline gryphon664

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Re: Sigs are not Army?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2004, 11:52:22 »
i'm pretty much in agreement with Just A Sig Op...

at least in the Comm res, we're taught that we are apart from the whole Army-Air Force-Navy cmd structures... we actually belong under the ADM IM (Assistant Deputy Minister of Infomation Management)

All of our commanders and units fall under that... we do not fall under any of the other Command Staffs. The reason for this is that as a sig op, i can do a tasking on time with a naval unit, and then the very next week i can be retasked to a land force unit.. and i've actually had that happen...

Yes, we may wear the cross-swords on our name tapes... i guess the CDS didn't want to have to distinguish with lightning bolts...

But as my fellow SigOp pointed out, on our DEUs, we don't wear the same command badge as anyone else
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Offline axeman

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Re: What is your military status?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2004, 12:52:11 »
no and as a Patricia we don't wear the same command badge as the van doos its a chain of command not a service arm entire . when you look up the  trade 291  while tasked with the army air force or navy somewhere on your mprr  it will state your uniform or  service uniform is. what does it say there i do know that there are cooks that wear the naval uniform that ain't served on a coast  and airforce ones that haven't served with the airforce etc   the comms research is a triservice  trade but somewhere or other it will state what service you belong to . i have a friend who is in under the army  uniform in the trade and another who is in wearing a airforce one . but thats the service arm they fall under  now they both wear combats but they each have their distinctive deu uniforms .
I'm not saying to kill all the stupid people . .. Just remove the warning labels and let nature run it's course