Author Topic: AESOp ( MOC 081)  (Read 481768 times)

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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1075 on: December 03, 2018, 19:42:51 »
Revisiting OUTCAN would just be a start.  Can we spare NCOs and WOs right now to CFLRS?  CFEWC?  Leitrim?  Etc?  IF we can't put qualified operators on every crew the RCAF requires a sensor op...why do we have all these other billets manned and not flying ones? 

Years ago...I called this;  I said there would be AES ops manning sensors on the FWSAR at the end of the day.  Where these 33 people will come from...I have no idea.  MH needs bodies to stay alive, LRP needs bodies to stay alive...the people who are the tape holding it together at the Sqns now and the last few years are pretty effin tired of 'being the tape'.

Plot twist.  The Government of Canada announces the retirement of the Aurora fleet in the next budget.   

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1076 on: December 03, 2018, 20:07:30 »
He's at the schoolhouse - I'll be looking for a Sgt (not a WO) to be AESOP lead for the operational SAR sqn out here.

When it comes to staffing these positions - it's easy, SAR Sqns are Priority A IAW direction from HHQ, therefore MH and LRP just do without.  :-)

I suspect that is exactly what will happen.  I know APS 19 Posting Plot v1 happened not long ago and I heard there are 'some changes to it'...but I've been away for a while so I don't know what those changes are.  Hoping to find out, I'm back in Sqn spaces this week.

You're SAR Lead AES Op, if I had to guess, will cross the ramp from where he/she works now to your location.   ;D
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 20:21:41 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1077 on: December 03, 2018, 20:08:15 »
Plot twist.  The Government of Canada announces the retirement of the Aurora fleet in the next budget.

But...but...Block 4!!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 20:23:02 by Eye In The Sky »
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Online kev994

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1078 on: December 03, 2018, 22:07:00 »
But...but...Block 4!!
Yeah, we've never renovated an asset and then got rid of it.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1079 on: December 03, 2018, 22:32:43 »
Plot twist.  The Government of Canada announces the retirement of the Aurora fleet in the next budget.

I'm conflicted as to whether I'd be happy or sad if that happened.   :dunno:
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1080 on: December 04, 2018, 20:29:14 »
I'm sure there will be folks who'll want to jump to a new airframe with newer gizmo's than the SGOD has...I have a briefing later this week with the "fleet' Horseman;  I expect one of the topics will be how this officially "new" tasking for FWSAR might unfold.  From my view of the trade overall right now, I see the customer wants a 10-apple pie, but there's only 6 apples to make it.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1081 on: December 04, 2018, 20:51:37 »
Yeah, we've never renovated an asset and then got rid of it.

Not to the degree the Brits did...Nimrod was particularly stunning in its short-sightedness.

Regards

G2G

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1082 on: December 04, 2018, 21:10:55 »
I'm conflicted as to whether I'd be happy or sad if that happened.   :dunno:

 ;D
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Offline Ditch

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1083 on: December 04, 2018, 21:59:16 »
Do AES Ops need to man the acoustic seats?  Why not just have Navy pers who do it on a ship get posted to a flying billet?  (Only partially tongue in cheek)

Maybe we need to put ACSO back into acoustics?  That will save 2 AES Ops per crew.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1084 on: December 04, 2018, 22:05:21 »
I'm sure there will be folks who'll want to jump to a new airframe with newer gizmo's than the SGOD has...I have a briefing later this week with the "fleet' Horseman;  I expect one of the topics will be how this officially "new" tasking for FWSAR might unfold.  From my view of the trade overall right now, I see the customer wants a 10-apple pie, but there's only 6 apples to make it.

It might go smoothly, if you add a few apples to the pie every year, then eventually you’ll have a pie.  All positions won’t need to be filled all at once so technically it may not be as painful as we think.

Back to my comment about outcan, those positions could easily be chopped.  Yes I know AES Ops want payload operator experience.   But you know what?  So do the ACSOs, but I don’t see the ACSO trade plugging up OUTCAN RPA positions (although some lucky ****** did get to go work with the RAAF a few years ago).   By the time we buy RPAs third hand from Uruguay the AES Ops with RPA experience will be long gone.

I would love it if the ACSOs took the Acoustic seat back!   


Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1085 on: December 04, 2018, 23:11:29 »
My understanding is AES Op will start filling the FWSAR Sqns in batches of 8 per courses or so. Hence why we’re going with courses of 18 students.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1086 on: December 04, 2018, 23:19:24 »
  So do the ACSOs, but I don’t see the ACSO trade plugging up OUTCAN RPA positions (although some lucky ****** ****ers did get to go work with the RAAF a few years ago).   

FTFY. 
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Reply:  "If."

Offline Ditch

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1087 on: December 05, 2018, 01:57:11 »
<snip> So do the ACSOs, but I don’t see the ACSO trade plugging up OUTCAN RPA positions
Slight thread derail - the NATO RPA OUTCAN in Italy was just filled this Last APS with a ....... PILOT!  How did the ACSO mafia let that happen?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1088 on: December 05, 2018, 08:44:18 »
There was a pilot there in Sig from the get go (he was a MH guy with CHUD time).  The RPAs that NATO unit has are pretty impressive!!   8)

Sig isn't the only location AES Ops are doing OUTCAN RPA.  There is at least one other location right now (single billet).

ASOs...part of the problem is, IMO, not having a targeted OT process.  Rather than putting RCN operators...offer them an OT with the agreement they get out of sailing, and WILL be ASOs.  Much like FEs has selected feeder trades...why does the RCAF not tap into the best 'non-RCAF' talent pool?

Make ASO an ACSO seat again?  I think that is fixing the wrong problem, personally.  // RANT ON // I've said it before...if the RCAF was REALLY serious about this issue...AES Op training would be removed from 402 Sqn/Wpg completely.  Introduce a Selection process, similar to SAR Tech but obviously different focus areas.  Offer AES Op - Jnr positions to the best DE and OT personnel.  Based on selection results, posting preferences, interests, whatever...train them for the platform they are going on.  There is no more BAQC...it becomes Phase 1 of OTU/MOAT/"whatever the SAR course will be called".  OFP is completion of Phase 1 (QL3 qual - Ground Phase) and Phase 2 (QL5 qual - Flight Phase) of their OTU.  OTU graduation, everyone is Winged, DEs become insta-Cpls (evens the playing field for pay).  Design CT (conversion course) training for people moving between fleets.  Much of the theory could be done the way the LRP fleet did CT between Block 2 and 3; you'd be dealing with experienced operators who don't need hand-holding to study systems, AC gen, safety and emerg, etc.

Voila.  No more time wasted on all this common to all, OTUs aren't waiting for bodies from a TE with its own issues....and the initial training establishment isn't sucking people away from operational communities.  the MH, LRP and FWSAR OTU instructors would remain category-current on their platforms...you'd have a 'reserve' for operations right there.  // RANT OFF //

What is it...4 flights now in Winnipeg?  If its all sim based...guess what locations have really good sims?  12 and 14 Wing and I suspect 19 Wing will have a nice one for SAR as well.

There are some COAs being proposed right now I won't elaborate on, but changes are coming to the way the trades trains people.  I, personally, think it should be extended to how we SELECT and train people.  The 1/2 day *ACS* that was trialed was ineffective and we need to select people based on tangible results from a organized selection process.  1 week long, standardized events...results speak for themselves.  Offers go to the best applicants, but not based on a random PSO interview.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 08:48:24 by Eye In The Sky »
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