Author Topic: AESOp ( MOC 081)  (Read 493316 times)

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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1075 on: December 03, 2018, 19:42:51 »
Revisiting OUTCAN would just be a start.  Can we spare NCOs and WOs right now to CFLRS?  CFEWC?  Leitrim?  Etc?  IF we can't put qualified operators on every crew the RCAF requires a sensor op...why do we have all these other billets manned and not flying ones? 

Years ago...I called this;  I said there would be AES ops manning sensors on the FWSAR at the end of the day.  Where these 33 people will come from...I have no idea.  MH needs bodies to stay alive, LRP needs bodies to stay alive...the people who are the tape holding it together at the Sqns now and the last few years are pretty effin tired of 'being the tape'.

Plot twist.  The Government of Canada announces the retirement of the Aurora fleet in the next budget.   

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1076 on: December 03, 2018, 20:07:30 »
He's at the schoolhouse - I'll be looking for a Sgt (not a WO) to be AESOP lead for the operational SAR sqn out here.

When it comes to staffing these positions - it's easy, SAR Sqns are Priority A IAW direction from HHQ, therefore MH and LRP just do without.  :-)

I suspect that is exactly what will happen.  I know APS 19 Posting Plot v1 happened not long ago and I heard there are 'some changes to it'...but I've been away for a while so I don't know what those changes are.  Hoping to find out, I'm back in Sqn spaces this week.

You're SAR Lead AES Op, if I had to guess, will cross the ramp from where he/she works now to your location.   ;D
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 20:21:41 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1077 on: December 03, 2018, 20:08:15 »
Plot twist.  The Government of Canada announces the retirement of the Aurora fleet in the next budget.

But...but...Block 4!!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 20:23:02 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline kev994

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1078 on: December 03, 2018, 22:07:00 »
But...but...Block 4!!
Yeah, we've never renovated an asset and then got rid of it.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1079 on: December 03, 2018, 22:32:43 »
Plot twist.  The Government of Canada announces the retirement of the Aurora fleet in the next budget.

I'm conflicted as to whether I'd be happy or sad if that happened.   :dunno:
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1080 on: December 04, 2018, 20:29:14 »
I'm sure there will be folks who'll want to jump to a new airframe with newer gizmo's than the SGOD has...I have a briefing later this week with the "fleet' Horseman;  I expect one of the topics will be how this officially "new" tasking for FWSAR might unfold.  From my view of the trade overall right now, I see the customer wants a 10-apple pie, but there's only 6 apples to make it.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1081 on: December 04, 2018, 20:51:37 »
Yeah, we've never renovated an asset and then got rid of it.

Not to the degree the Brits did...Nimrod was particularly stunning in its short-sightedness.

Regards

G2G

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1082 on: December 04, 2018, 21:10:55 »
I'm conflicted as to whether I'd be happy or sad if that happened.   :dunno:

 ;D
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Offline Ditch

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1083 on: December 04, 2018, 21:59:16 »
Do AES Ops need to man the acoustic seats?  Why not just have Navy pers who do it on a ship get posted to a flying billet?  (Only partially tongue in cheek)

Maybe we need to put ACSO back into acoustics?  That will save 2 AES Ops per crew.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1084 on: December 04, 2018, 22:05:21 »
I'm sure there will be folks who'll want to jump to a new airframe with newer gizmo's than the SGOD has...I have a briefing later this week with the "fleet' Horseman;  I expect one of the topics will be how this officially "new" tasking for FWSAR might unfold.  From my view of the trade overall right now, I see the customer wants a 10-apple pie, but there's only 6 apples to make it.

It might go smoothly, if you add a few apples to the pie every year, then eventually you’ll have a pie.  All positions won’t need to be filled all at once so technically it may not be as painful as we think.

Back to my comment about outcan, those positions could easily be chopped.  Yes I know AES Ops want payload operator experience.   But you know what?  So do the ACSOs, but I don’t see the ACSO trade plugging up OUTCAN RPA positions (although some lucky ****** did get to go work with the RAAF a few years ago).   By the time we buy RPAs third hand from Uruguay the AES Ops with RPA experience will be long gone.

I would love it if the ACSOs took the Acoustic seat back!   


Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1085 on: December 04, 2018, 23:11:29 »
My understanding is AES Op will start filling the FWSAR Sqns in batches of 8 per courses or so. Hence why we’re going with courses of 18 students.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1086 on: December 04, 2018, 23:19:24 »
  So do the ACSOs, but I don’t see the ACSO trade plugging up OUTCAN RPA positions (although some lucky ****** ****ers did get to go work with the RAAF a few years ago).   

FTFY. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Ditch

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1087 on: December 05, 2018, 01:57:11 »
<snip> So do the ACSOs, but I don’t see the ACSO trade plugging up OUTCAN RPA positions
Slight thread derail - the NATO RPA OUTCAN in Italy was just filled this Last APS with a ....... PILOT!  How did the ACSO mafia let that happen?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1088 on: December 05, 2018, 08:44:18 »
There was a pilot there in Sig from the get go (he was a MH guy with CHUD time).  The RPAs that NATO unit has are pretty impressive!!   8)

Sig isn't the only location AES Ops are doing OUTCAN RPA.  There is at least one other location right now (single billet).

ASOs...part of the problem is, IMO, not having a targeted OT process.  Rather than putting RCN operators...offer them an OT with the agreement they get out of sailing, and WILL be ASOs.  Much like FEs has selected feeder trades...why does the RCAF not tap into the best 'non-RCAF' talent pool?

Make ASO an ACSO seat again?  I think that is fixing the wrong problem, personally.  // RANT ON // I've said it before...if the RCAF was REALLY serious about this issue...AES Op training would be removed from 402 Sqn/Wpg completely.  Introduce a Selection process, similar to SAR Tech but obviously different focus areas.  Offer AES Op - Jnr positions to the best DE and OT personnel.  Based on selection results, posting preferences, interests, whatever...train them for the platform they are going on.  There is no more BAQC...it becomes Phase 1 of OTU/MOAT/"whatever the SAR course will be called".  OFP is completion of Phase 1 (QL3 qual - Ground Phase) and Phase 2 (QL5 qual - Flight Phase) of their OTU.  OTU graduation, everyone is Winged, DEs become insta-Cpls (evens the playing field for pay).  Design CT (conversion course) training for people moving between fleets.  Much of the theory could be done the way the LRP fleet did CT between Block 2 and 3; you'd be dealing with experienced operators who don't need hand-holding to study systems, AC gen, safety and emerg, etc.

Voila.  No more time wasted on all this common to all, OTUs aren't waiting for bodies from a TE with its own issues....and the initial training establishment isn't sucking people away from operational communities.  the MH, LRP and FWSAR OTU instructors would remain category-current on their platforms...you'd have a 'reserve' for operations right there.  // RANT OFF //

What is it...4 flights now in Winnipeg?  If its all sim based...guess what locations have really good sims?  12 and 14 Wing and I suspect 19 Wing will have a nice one for SAR as well.

There are some COAs being proposed right now I won't elaborate on, but changes are coming to the way the trades trains people.  I, personally, think it should be extended to how we SELECT and train people.  The 1/2 day *ACS* that was trialed was ineffective and we need to select people based on tangible results from a organized selection process.  1 week long, standardized events...results speak for themselves.  Offers go to the best applicants, but not based on a random PSO interview.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 08:48:24 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline psflameangel

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1089 on: March 28, 2019, 17:47:28 »
Hey all! Happy spring! The season of warm(er) weather, muck and career changes.

I'm an NCI Op with 6 years in the navy and I just found out today that my VOT to AES Op has come in. I won't see it until tomorrow but needless to say I'm excited... especially since I received a denial back in August... But also a little anxious. Because change. So I had a couple of questions about the state of the trade.

I'm aware the training is now 6 months in Winnipeg, but are the courses backed up at all? What are the chances that I'll end up on PAT for months? I was due to deploy in July and if I'm sitting around waiting to get on course it will kill me to think that I could be overseas doing the job and getting tax free. Some background to my concern: an operator I worked with about 2 years ago was accepted to AES Op and was told he would have to wait over 2 years to go on course. Mind you he didn't ask any questions about OJT in the meantime, and this was around the time the training process was getting switched around, but he did put in his VR.

I saw earlier in this thread that the priority was to fill those SAR positions, but I'm hoping for MH because it's familiar to me. There are a lot of things I enjoy about sailing and the things that I don't aren't anything that the aircrew has to deal with... Except for a little seasickness, but that's what Gravol is for. I'd also like to stay in the Halifax/Dartmouth area if at all possible. So the question is what are the odds of me getting my wish to stay east coast? Keep in mind I'm very well aware nothing can be said for certain. I try to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

I hope you guys know how helpful you've been. I've been creeping this thread for years and you're all a wealth of information. Thank you for that.


Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1090 on: March 28, 2019, 18:51:24 »
Congrats. 

You will not be waiting for 2 years to get on course.  I can’t say when you’ll walk through the doors of B84 here in Winnipeg, but I can say it won’t be two years.

After you toss your anchor aside you will most likely be sent to 423 or 443 for OJT.  Make the most of your OJT and try to get on a few famil flights.  I’d also recommend you get in touch with someone at either 407 or 405 and arrange an Aurora flight as well. 

It’s a fantastic trade.





Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1091 on: March 28, 2019, 19:45:00 »
As mentioned you won’t wait two years. While in Halifax you’ll belong to BTL however since 2 CAD manage our new AESOPs, we’ll send you to 406 for OJT. I’ll be in touch with you to course load you on all pre-req training. Getting MH depends on many factors, for example, fleet intake capacity and your overall aptitude on BAQC. Do well on BAQC, study hard and have a positive attitude.
Welcome to the trade!
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1092 on: March 28, 2019, 21:37:53 »
I'm aware the training is now 6 months in Winnipeg, but are the courses backed up at all? What are the chances that I'll end up on PAT for months? I was due to deploy in July and if I'm sitting around waiting to get on course it will kill me to think that I could be overseas doing the job and getting tax free.

Everyone who remusters could be in the position;  you'll get an offer and can accept it...or decline it.  *IF* there is a big wait, maybe the trade BTL Manager and your current CM could strike a deal;  I've seen it happen once for an operational deployment (AES Op who was going UTPNCM).  Just a thought.

Quote
I saw earlier in this thread that the priority was to fill those SAR positions

SAR is a few years away yet, I wouldn't worry about going SAR if you are remustering this APS;  it will be a phased in roll-out from West to East coasts.  I don't think the new bldg is even complete yet out in Comox (it wasn't when I was there in Jan).  Newly-winged grads may end up on SAR in the future, but I'd bet a box of donut holes the initial cadre will come from current operators who have flying experience;  there is a requirement for LRP and MH types, always....

Quote
, but I'm hoping for MH because it's familiar to me. There are a lot of things I enjoy about sailing and the things that I don't aren't anything that the aircrew has to deal with... Except for a little seasickness, but that's what Gravol is for. I'd also like to stay in the Halifax/Dartmouth area if at all possible. So the question is what are the odds of me getting my wish to stay east coast? Keep in mind I'm very well aware nothing can be said for certain. I try to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

You might find you like LRP too if you got selected for Aurora's;  I've been...a lot of places I'd never of gone if I wasn't an LRP type.   :2c:  Your preference is taken into consideration.  MH is opening up a little more now, and will continue to as you progress thru the training system.  Not sure if it still is the case, but top students used to get their posting preference (if there was an open position, of course) coming out of Winnipeg (was in the old School Orders).

I did my BTL time at 406;  there are lots of worse places to be, and the Snr AES Op (MWO) there is a good guy;  new hanger spaces, gym in the bldg...think of the break while waiting for courses as a time to sit back a bit and enjoy life before you get stuck in the training system and then onto an operational squadron.  Sqn life can be VERY busy...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 21:49:00 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1093 on: March 28, 2019, 21:40:42 »
After you toss your anchor aside you will most likely be sent to 423 or 443 for OJT.  Make the most of your OJT and try to get on a few famil flights.  I’d also recommend you get in touch with someone at either 407 or 405 and arrange an Aurora flight as well. 


Definitely...I know there's already talk about this type of stuff, and not just with the BTLs. 
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Offline flames9

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1094 on: March 29, 2019, 00:34:10 »
Congrats!!  I was an NCIop on the West Coast then Went Aesop..was on the first BAC course in Winnipeg..what was that 2002 or 03?  Only in for a few yrs then moved to the USA..damn women,lol   I wanted nothing to do with Helos......quite glad I ended u going Auroras!  Congrats..its the best trade in the Forces...

Offline DetectiveMcNulty

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1095 on: March 29, 2019, 00:37:32 »
In my limited time with AES Ops, they treated me way better than my own trade ever did! From the outside looking in, I'd say you are probably in good hands. Congrats and good luck!

Offline psflameangel

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1096 on: April 03, 2019, 17:34:32 »
Thank you all for the feedback! It's enough to have settled the smidge of anxiety that I had about switching trades. Change can be difficult initially, but I live for it.
My acceptance had been sent and, as corny as it sounds, I couldn't be more excited. 😁

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1097 on: April 12, 2019, 19:30:14 »
A recent article on a MH AES Op.

Article Link

Master Corporal Emil Edwards: A love of music contributes to success as sensor operator

“I believe that interest in music helped [me] develop an intuition for listening to underwater acoustics,” says Master Corporal Emil Edwards. “Being able to listen for subtle changes as well as pick up quickly on rhythmic patterns.”

Master Corporal Edwards is an airborne electronic sensor operator (AES Op) serving with 406 Maritime Operational Training Squadron at 12 Wing Shearwater, Nova Scotia. In March 2019 he graduated from the first Sensor Operator Conversion Training course (SENSO CT 1) at the squadron. The course is designed to enable sensor operators to move from the CH-124 Sea King helicopter to the new CH-148 Cyclone.

He was born in Prince George, British Columbia, into a family that loves music. His father enjoyed playing folk songs on his guitar while his mother preferred opera and theatre. He says his lifelong interest in music contributes to his success as an AES Op today.

“We [AES Ops] maximize the effectiveness of our underwater sensors,” he says. “Seeing and hearing with eyes and ears whose senses go beyond human limitations is remarkable—but the real selling point for me begins with just being on the [Cyclone] helicopter.”

Master Corporal Edwards enrolled in the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) in 2001 as a naval combat information operator (NCI Op) in the Reserve Force. Over the following 12 years, he served with the port security section in Esquimalt, British Columbia, and Her Majesty’s Canadian Ships Brandon and Whitehorse. His naval career took him as far north as Skagway, Alaska, and south to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. He fondly recalls taking part in Operation Podium, the CAF’s support to the 2010 Vancouver Olympics; he worked on security with HMCS Brandon, whose task was surveillance of the Strait of Georgia. There were some similarities between the work of NCI Ops and AES Ops that help him to this day.

“The NCI Op trade also uses voice reporting of contacts and requires a similar level of understanding of radio frequency,” he explains. “It has kept me digging in to publications after I made the occupation transfer.”

Master Corporal Edwards was trade trained as an AES Op in 2013. He enjoys going to places that fixed wing aircraft cannot, conducting shipborne operations and operating a hoist to lower or raise personnel from the helicopter—something he says many people would pay money to experience.

As an AES Op, Master Corporal Edwards has served on both CH-124 Sea King and CH-148 Cyclone helicopters. In 2016, he deployed on NATO Operation Active Endeavour with HMCS Fredericton.

“When flying became unrestricted, it was our air detachment that began collecting imagery for the Navy,” he said.

“Overall, the deployment enabled me to see much of Europe, struggle to learn a few phrases in one language before having to learn them in another, and being able to experience life on the ship with so many great people.”

With 631 flying hours on the Sea King and 35 hours on the Cyclone, Master Corporal Edwards says the transition from the CH-124 Sea King to the CH-148 Cyclone was, in many ways, like taking a big step into the future. Working on a Cyclone is about integration with a digital environment, providing a new challenge for even the most technically proficient AES Ops.

Looking to the future, he plans to further his education and take advantage of the various career opportunities the CAF provides—always with a focus on what is best for himself and his wife and daughter.

Outside of the military, Master Corporal Edwards takes great pride in his skills as a photographer and graphic designer; he created the 423 Maritime Helicopter Squadron’s 75th anniversary display at the Shearwater Aviation Museum.

“In the immediate future,” he says. “I’m looking forward to upcoming flight instructor cadre training to then contribute to the successful training of our future CH-148 Cyclone sensor operators.”

About AES Ops

AES Ops are responsible for detecting and tracking submarines, providing support for search and rescue operations/medical evacuations, and assisting other government departments and agencies in the collection of evidence and counter-narcotics patrols.

Their primary technical functions are to:
•Operate radar, electro-optic/Infrared systems, magnetic anomaly detection, and electronic warfare equipment
•Take airborne photography
•Load and arm airborne weapons, and search stores systems
•Operate the helicopter-mounted machine gun system
•Operate unmanned aerial vehicle electronic sensor systems
•Communicate with internal and external agencies; both civilian and Allied forces
•Collect evidence
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1098 on: April 13, 2019, 00:54:06 »
I sailed with Emil back on the MCDVs.  He was an amazingly switched-on guy.  Glad he's doing well.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #1099 on: April 13, 2019, 08:52:31 »
Speaking of recruitment, the AES Op trade will be part of a recruitment road show starting in May. We’re going to visit almost all bases and Wings across Canada. Look for the posters and announcements on your Base for more details.
Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other.

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