Author Topic: AESOp ( MOC 081)  (Read 493415 times)

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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #925 on: April 22, 2017, 06:39:17 »
Thanks for the quick responses Eye and Dolphin. Just realized with 20/40 vision I'm a no go for AES OP. When I was in before I had 20/20 but I guess my vision has degraded pretty quick since then. Seems like a really fun trade, jealous of all who get in!

It can be, but then again so can any other trade.  It's what you make of it.

I have noticed since we have started taking in DE I have found that some of the kids always seem to be looking for greener pastures, which is good.   However, when it was an OT trade, we were the greener pasture.  Rarely did someone OT in and then try to OT to another trade or release.




Offline EpicBeardedMan

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #926 on: April 22, 2017, 07:25:16 »
It can be, but then again so can any other trade.  It's what you make of it.

I have noticed since we have started taking in DE I have found that some of the kids always seem to be looking for greener pastures, which is good.   However, when it was an OT trade, we were the greener pasture.  Rarely did someone OT in and then try to OT to another trade or release.

Its easy to get into a negative mindset i think, and believe the grass is greener just like you say.  AES OP looks and sounds really great. The ones ive talked to on ship or on base have never said anything bad about it. Stoker on the other hand... :P
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #927 on: April 22, 2017, 09:32:26 »
IMO the aircrew trade in general are the greener pasture. The AES Op trade really works hard to keep the unnecessary BS to a minimum, and wants our junior guys to focus on flying and operating the sensors. Usually the ones leaving the trade chose to go Officer.   
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #928 on: April 22, 2017, 12:29:47 »
Some of it, a part at least in LRP, is the folks who wanted to 'dry' and were made to go 'wet', or vice versa.  Personally, I think a lot of the current issues with Jnr NCO/NCMs leaving or wanting to leave will be solved with the switch back to most intake going back to VOTs, who have some perspective of life in the CAF as a NCM outside the aircrew world.  I know most of the CTs that came to our Sqn are either out, or looking at getting out.  DEs bring their pro's, but also con's.  I think the trade is making the correct move by concentrating on VOTs again in the next few years.

Agreed on the Officer part, some of our guys are not signing their TOS offers, mostly because they want that UTPNCM thing and its not being supported the way they think it should be by the CofC.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #929 on: April 22, 2017, 13:05:05 »
There were a few releases a few years ago that raised some eyebrows.

As for the wet/dry bit.  People have to realize they can't be picky and that every AES Op now has to learn acoustics. 

Unnecessary BS, I would have to disagree, our trade is currently moving in all directions with no real vision.  Don't believe me?  Look at the wonderful job they've done with the ASO seat.  Even the changes in Winnipeg, which should be for the better, are not.  When you consider the software/sensors students are learning in the PCT are completely different than the suite on the CT-142.  The lack of communication between all the training units (402/404/406/ADAC) just blows my mind.

IMHO the AES Op trade is in a very fragile state and we need to get this ****** back on the rails.



« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 13:31:09 by Dolphin_Hunter »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #930 on: April 22, 2017, 13:30:25 »
There were a few releases a few years ago that raised some eyebrows.

Ya, the last few years have had those it seems.  You missed the townhall yesterday...so I'll pass the message along.  THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!!!!!   8)
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #931 on: April 22, 2017, 13:44:02 »
You have no idea how disappointed I am that I missed that.  I'm being serious.

Aviators to Ops jobs as a first posting?  Seriously?  CFEWC?  What's next? Posting Aviators to ADAC?

Let them build the experience and knowledge necessary then send them to a non-flying position.

 

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #932 on: April 22, 2017, 14:03:36 »
That might be changing.  OFP moved back to post-OTU/MOAT...now there is efforts to create a USQ for the W Ops/ESS types, etc or they won't be OFP.  No spec with Wings now.

Your boss was there, he likely sent out an email to the Herd as there was only 4ish folks there from your combined bullpins.
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #933 on: April 22, 2017, 14:16:53 »
OFP moved past UTO/MOAT is a good move IMO, it will reflect the true numbers of the trade.

Quote
The lack of communication between all the training units (402/404/406/ADAC) just blows my mind.

I can assure you 402 has good comms with 404. Even the ASO side, we now have an ex 404 member as our Acoustic SME. As for 406, we do have comms but it's true it is not enough. The reason is they have enough on their plate wrt 148 course development and as a community, they are still learning the new Helo. So yes 402 mostly communicate with the LRP because they have enough knowledge and exposure on PCT and what kind of attribute they want for their students, which in terms we produce for them. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #934 on: April 22, 2017, 15:05:37 »
As for the wet/dry bit.  People have to realize they can't be picky and that every AES Op now has to learn acoustics.

true, but the reality with this younger generation, who aren't locked down somewhat with a mortgage and kids, etc is they just end up not signing their next TOS.  They have options, and if their CAF career is XX more years of being an ASO/NASO and they don't like it, they are walking away and the trade has to recruit, train the new person from scratch again.  What is that, roughly, from arriving at 402 to being a brand new A cat...4 years?

That stuff is hurting us in the near, middle and long term.  I know the TOS sequence now starts with a 7 year VIE, but in some cases that's just when people are ready to be Leads and experienced instructors.

Lots of things to fix...where to start?  VOT heavy intake is one good step IMO and so is moving the OFP, IMO.  Maybe we should be like the FEs and not handing out wings until MOAT.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 15:12:41 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline DetectiveMcNulty

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #935 on: April 22, 2017, 20:22:28 »
One big military "WTF" moment I had was when I looked into your trade. I was told I didn't have the correct math credit from high school. Apparently I was suitable to apply for ACSO, but not AES Op. This was while serving in a trade that also required the same math (I was grandfathered) and I had BEW plus another related specialty course you guys can pick up in non-flying positions.

As someone that was already completing university on my own time, the high school math course wasn't exactly my top priority. Seemed like the system was a bit too rigid on this issue. Especially if it's the experienced OT types you want to grab.






Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #936 on: April 22, 2017, 20:36:36 »
Ya not sure what that is all about...math isn't my strong suit and I have no issues in my job.  They upped the educational stuff hoping it would result in a better DE type I think.  Now...results like you just posted above.
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Offline DetectiveMcNulty

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #937 on: April 22, 2017, 21:00:12 »
Don't get me wrong, any dedicated person can take night school or take leave and go to summer school. But the OT types have to face the reality of life at the same time. The look on the face of a spouse when explaining night high school, as opposed to being paid to finish university and then getting a promotion afterwards, for instance...   ;D

But I've been impressed by what I've seen from your trade up close, so I can definitely vouch to any other readers that AES Op (and aircrew in general) is a good go!




Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #938 on: April 22, 2017, 23:59:30 »
Well....FWIW...I have 3 years of college BUT my *high school* education was a GED in my mid-20s, and I seem to be doing pretty well (Advanced Category Non-Acoustics, and a Crew Lead).  Or...people just feel sorry for me.

I'm ok with either, really... ;D
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #939 on: April 23, 2017, 08:06:13 »
Well....FWIW...I have 3 years of college BUT my *high school* education was a GED in my mid-20s, and I seem to be doing pretty well (Advanced Category Non-Acoustics, and a Crew Lead).  Or...people just feel sorry for me.

I'm ok with either, really... ;D

Pretty good considering some a$$hole tried his hardest to punt you aside early on in your AES Op training.

Overall it's a good trade and motivated individuals will have no problems advancing.

Offline hogdogz

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #940 on: April 26, 2017, 14:45:14 »
Hey everyone I just wanted to reach out and see if there are any other CT candidates out there that may be able to give me any sort of insight into the timeline. I originally put my CT in back in 2013. Finally heard back in December of 2016. I completed my Aircrew Med and interview in January and was told I should hear one way or another by end of fiscal. I've reached out to my broker multiple times but nothing. Now I've been in the army long enough to know that these things take time but just figured I would ask. Would the next course dates play into it at all?

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #941 on: April 26, 2017, 20:57:36 »
It might play into it.  The initial occupation training in Wpg is undergoing some changes and may affect when selection and intake happens.  The word I got recently was this is temporary though.

Eagle Eye View is the guy in the know about all things Winnipeg related. 
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #942 on: April 26, 2017, 23:03:41 »
The next course is scheduled to start mid July timeframe. Then the one after that is Jan 2018. These are courses of 12 students and as mentioned by EITS, the BAQC is undergoing drastic changes. IAQC will no longer exist and is now under 1 course called BAQC. The length of the course will be about 5 1/2 months and will have a flying phase and multiple sims. You will also have to go through ACS before been accepted into the trade. If you have more  questions let me know and I'll be happy to answer them.
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Offline Medic88

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #943 on: April 27, 2017, 07:40:47 »
The next course is scheduled to start mid July timeframe. Then the one after that is Jan 2018. These are courses of 12 students and as mentioned by EITS, the BAQC is undergoing drastic changes. IAQC will no longer exist and is now under 1 course called BAQC. The length of the course will be about 5 1/2 months and will have a flying phase and multiple sims. You will also have to go through ACS before been accepted into the trade. If you have more  questions let me know and I'll be happy to answer them.
Thanks for passing on this info, Eagle Eye. I was told that I was selected for AESOP DE about over 3 weeks ago by my CFRC. I suspect that the new course may have played into the delay in receiving an offer as I was told that I need to be course loaded first. I am a recruit school by pass.

If you don't mind, I have a few questions to help myself and others put things into perspective.

Will the new BAQC be considered a blended QL3/QL5?
Will Wings still be awarded following this phase?
Will posting messages provided following the new BAQC?
Has the OFP officially changed to require OTU/MOAT? If so, will spec pay only be provided after specific aircraft training?

Following trade qualifications, if selected for NASO/ASO or MH, is there a possibility of changing your designation later in your career? Or are you a NASO for life if selected for NASO?
Are the Cyclones up and running yet? I have my eye set on this one. If not, what does an AESOP do at a MH posting if our Sea Kings are no longer in service?

Thanks for all your help. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #944 on: April 27, 2017, 08:16:47 »
The new BAQC is QL3 only, however Wings will still be awarded upon completion and you will be posted to a Sqn. OFP is now post MOAT/OTU which means you won't get spec pay until you've completed it.

Although rare, it is still possible to cross over MH. However I haven't yet seen someone going from NASO to ASO. To be honest once you qualify on a platform you'll most likely stay on that type of sensor until you reach WO level.

Now as for MH, the community is going through drastic changes. Having said that, it is still possible to go MH from Winnipeg. I had my last 2 students posted to Halifax for Cyclone training.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #945 on: April 27, 2017, 16:04:03 »
I never to ask about Spec pay at the townhall last Friday, never thought of it to be honest.  I knew the mentioned Wings still out of Winnipeg, and OFP being moved back to MOAT/OTU/the *supposed to be happening USQ for W Ops/ESS*.

I guess I just assumed spec pay would still be linked to QL5, and that the BAQC+ was still a 5's qual.   ???


 :facepalm: got it on the second read. Wpg = QL3 with Wings.  QL5/OFP moved to MOAT/OTU/ESS USQ.

I must have licked a glue stick or lead pipe or something before posting this in reply.   :D
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 14:57:53 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #946 on: April 27, 2017, 17:48:49 »
Because I'm a common sense kind of fella, it'd probably be wise for the MH fleet to acquire a MCpl ASO/NASO type to bring some experience to the Cyclone fleet.  It'd be ideal but we can't spare anyone as we have a severe shortage of ASOs.  (3 at 404... should be 7..  Tracking submarines passively is an art form and is never black and white.

We currently have an ex-NASO currently on our ASO MOAT.  I started as a NASO as well.

Finally.  I'll throw this out there.  We could potentially have Aviators (ASO A cats) sitting on the Aurora passing passive information to the Tac resulting in weapons leaving the bomb bay.  With no one backing them up.  It could be a team of Aviators working to classify the submarine as the ASOs are the only ones trained and qualified to analyze.

I may be a bit off in my thinking, but I doubt there's many Aviators/Ptes/OS in the CAF with that kind of responsibility.



« Last Edit: April 27, 2017, 20:01:59 by Dolphin_Hunter »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #947 on: April 27, 2017, 21:27:42 »
We currently have an ex-NASO currently on our ASO MOAT.  I started as a NASO as well.

left coast guy?

Quote
Finally.  I'll throw this out there.  We could potentially have Aviators (ASO A cats) sitting on the Aurora passing passive information to the Tac resulting in weapons leaving the bomb bay.  With no one backing them up.  It could be a team of Aviators working to classify the submarine as the ASOs are the only ones trained and qualified to analyze.

I may be a bit off in my thinking, but I doubt there's many Aviators/Ptes/OS in the CAF with that kind of responsibility.

Ya...I don't see use ever winning that fight for Spec w/out the Cpl deal (if that's where you were going).  Heck, they forced the *pyramid* rank structure and now look at the shitshow because of that and the downranking that should not have happened in some spots.

Personally, I think they should leave the Spec pay at QL5 and move the OFP as briefed and I am *hoping* that is what they did.  OFP and spec aren't rigidly tied to each other; my previous trade I was OFP at QL3 but, Spec was as per normal - Cpl with QL5.

The Horsemen are having a Change of Command parade in the near future so...who knows what changes will happen/not happen in the future!  Everything is bell bottoms...wait a few years, it will be back in style!

As for hurting for wet and dry guys...come across the parking lot to your old stomping grounds...as Pri 4, we are in THE HURT LOCKER.  Our Stds ASO...I wouldn't want to take his blood pressure at the end of each day!   ;D
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #948 on: April 28, 2017, 05:44:31 »
I was more or less thinking.  Advance promotions for those who upgrade and are still Aviators!

Manning!  But at least 402 is good to go.   Taking yet another solid ASO performer out of the community.  Asshats

« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 20:33:38 by Dolphin_Hunter »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: AESOp ( MOC 081)
« Reply #949 on: April 28, 2017, 15:01:40 »
THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!   just call over and ask G.Z. he'll tell you that.    :rofl:

 ;D

415 Pri 5, line Sqn Pri 4 but we have crew posn's not filled.   :dunno:

TGIFF!
Everything happens for a reason.

Sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions.