Topic: AESOp ( MOC 081)

[xoulliam]

Thanks! My offer didn't include a course loading message. I doubt I'm on the July serial though. With 2 courses a year and 12 students on each, I'll be lucky if I make the next one that usually runs in January.

Since BAQC is now an amalgamated ql3/5, I'm certain that I will need to do AMT, Basic Lands Op Survival Course/Basic SERE crse, and the Sea Survival crse before I'm even considered. I'm just itching to get my feet wet.

See you at 402? You already there?

They're all fun courses! I think you need your AMT and sea survival at minimum for the BAQC if I'm not mistaken. I'm not at 402 yet, I'm on an OJT in Valcartier but  I was told to expect to be at 402 in July

[Eagle Eye View]

At a minimum, you will need AMT and BEW to be eligible for BAQC.

[xoulliam]

At a minimum, you will need AMT and BEW to be eligible for BAQC.

Thanks for the correction

[Eye In The Sky]

It's easy. Do you want to be gone from home months or weeks?

LRP and MH do *both* of those, in reality.  I was gone A LOT in 2016; complete months I was gone - Jan/Feb/Mar/Oct/Nov/Dec.  Partial months I was gone - May/Jun/Jul/Sep. 

You mean UAV replacement?

Replacement would suggest we have a UAV (in the RCAF) now...JUSTAS is moving ahead like cold molasses going uphill backwards in a Manitoba January morning.   

[Eye In The Sky]

Sea survival and Air Ops Land Survival or whatever it is called now (BSERE back when I did it) are as fun as you let yourself make them.  I enjoyed all of it.  Winnipeg and MOAT are hard, lots of studying if you aren't the "do the minimum to get by" type and if you are...that will catch up to you at some point.   

For those who don't like the RCAF...http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/air-force/jobs/air-warfare-specialist  and http://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/reenlist-overseas/overseas-applicants

 

[Sapper989]

Hello everyone, this topic has a welt of information!

The only question i am left with is regarding family. I have a spouse and 2 young kid and i am currently posted in wainwright, AB... she isnt really trilled at the idea of being left alone for 2 years with kids when all her family is in QC...

Will i get to go back to PAT in wainwright between courses or once i finish winnipeg i am of to the east coast? At that point can my family be posted has well?

Thank you for the information, i went through the 40 page and did not quite find that answer.

[Eagle Eye View]

Ok here is an update for everyone wrt the BAQC here in Winnipeg. The IAQC no longer exist, the new course will still be called BAQC (QL3), but will have a flying phase and new Procedural Crew Trainer phase as well. The new course is roughly 5 1/2 to 6 months long. If you pass, you'll get your Wing and receive a posting message before heading out to MOAT or OTU. The first course is set to begin July 10 with 12 students. The next one will start Jan 2018.

[Dolphin_Hunter]

Ok here is an update for everyone wrt the BAQC here in Winnipeg. The IAQC no longer exist, the new course will still be called BAQC (QL3), but will have a flying phase and new Procedural Crew Trainer phase as well.

They should take the flying phase out back and put a bullet in it.  So what is considered the QL5 now?

[Eagle Eye View]

MOAT and OTU is the QL5. As for the flying phase, I disagree with you. I've seen the big difference between classroom, trainers and flying. There a significant difference and in every courses I see students struggle with that. Even though the tasks are simple, they struggle completing it. We're also in the process of purchasing an EOIR on the CT-142.

[Dolphin_Hunter]

I only ask because on their MPRR the QL5 qualification usually gets entered after Winnipeg.  I didn't think we could award a QL5 for an OTU as the OTU is not the same for every AES Op.  We have 3 streams, MH, ASO and NASO..

I only mention killing the flying portion because it doesn't reinforce what they learn in the PCT.  It just seems like a waste of resources. 

It's ok everyone disagrees with me!

[Dimsum]

We're also in the process of purchasing an EOIR on the CT-142.

So...when do the OP NANOOKs start?   

[Eye In The Sky]

So how many actual flights are they getting on QL3 and what are the tasks they are actually doing?

Sitting the QSWB for the NASO A and B Cat quals this week, one thing I really wish I'd of had time to do was check out the new QS/TP you guys are working off of.  I like the PCT idea, but does it lead into the actual flying or not so much?

Just hope this new QL3 leads in nicely to what the folks at 404 and 406 have to do, and that whole process produces someone we can use on the line sqn...quick look at the last 2 MOATs, decent Baby Bs coming out the pipe.

[Eye In The Sky]

So...when do the OP NANOOKs start?   

And R-12 !

[Eagle Eye View]

New BAQC is broken into 4 phases. Phase 1 is academics of about 4 weeks. Phase 2 is MVASP for about for 4 weeks also, phase 3 is PCT for 5 weeks with 8 actual assessed missions, and lastly phase 4 is the flying phase that has 4 flights plus the trainers. Each phases requires a checkride to pass and move on. The phases don't really build on each other and by what I mean for this is we can teach phase 3 before phase 2, etc, it'll be much easier for scheduling purpose. Although the course is 12 students, we will break the course into 2 groups of 6 students during phase 3 and 4. 6 students will be doing PCT while the remaining do their flying phase. Once done, we switch them. That's the only way I could make this course under 6 months while teaching everything the QS requires us to teach. Ultimately the goal is to surge the output to 30 students per year, so 3 courses a year with some overlapping. That's the best I can explain it in a nutshell. Trust me, the instructor cadre has a lot of operational experience and we've put a lot of work into developing this course with emphasis on practical applications versus death by ppt.

[Dolphin_Hunter]

I hope someone pulls their head out of their *** before they surge.

We have 3 (should be 7) ASOs at 404 (1 Standards and 2 in the pit).  The most we can handle on MOAT is 4 students at a time.  So before they surge or before they pull another ASO into the centre of excellence at 402, they really need to wake the frig up. 

4 weeks of MVASP though?  We only teach 2 of MVASP weeks on MOAT.  4 weeks seems long.  Or is that the entire ASW portion?

...quick look at the last 2 MOATs, decent Baby Bs coming out the pipe.

You're welcome!

[Eagle Eye View]

It's the entire ASW portion for 12 students. That's the difference.

[Eye In The Sky]

And here we see one of the reasons we take so long to get flyers on Sqn...too much *common to all* training.  MVASP on the QL3 for all is an example;  zero relevance to someone who will end up LRP NASO.  RADAR and ESM PCTs...zero relevance to someone going LRP ASO.  MH...I don't know about that side, and what will / will not be relevant to those folks with the Cyclone.

Honestly, the BEST solution we as a trade could do it:

- shut down AES OP training in Wpg.

- move the MH background folks to 406, move the LRP background types to 404.

- let each community run their own QL3 with basic *common to all training* (that way you can post them and not have everyone stuck in Wpg and then USQ training away from family for so long), then MOAT/OTU for QL5 (Wings after graduation with a platform Cat).  After everyone has Wings, the Horsemen can post people to the west coast as needed.  voila.  The line Sqns still FG for the TEs, same as now, and outlying units. 

I know you guys at 402 have to *please all customers* kind of thing, but teaching MVASP to someone destined for LRP NASO is 4 wasted weeks of effort, time, salaries.  Same for ESM/RADAR etc for anyone going dry.  Waste of time and resources.  There's way too much *common to all* because the trade doesn't flush people out into the *sub-occ* before starting training.  Change that, save money, save effort and save TIME. 

Too really do what we need to do, we need to identify who is going to what I will refer to incorrectly as sub-occ (NASO/ASO/MH) and give them the training they need.  NASOs don't need to know MVASP...ASOs don't need to know RADAR/ESM...and MH won't use the same RADAR/ESM or even use it the same, as LRP types.

We can't treat everything like an apple and peal it the way we peel apples.  We have applies, oranges and bananas to deal with and train.   

[Eye In The Sky]

You're welcome!

Thanks, I'd like to repeat and double the last order please, and pay extra for rush delivery.   

[Eagle Eye View]

MH folks wants us to teach MVASP. That's why it on the QS. We teach all basic functions for PCT & MVASP, the gain will be that MOAT or OTU won't have to teach it anymore. They'll focus on the advance functions and tactics.

[Dolphin_Hunter]

ETIS.  Nail on head.

Just imagine, our manning issues would almost cease.

[jfc]

Hi to all,
I need to find information on these 3 badges.
What does MOAT stands for?
What does HMVP stands for?
Where was the course given at?

Thanks

JF Chalifoux

[mariomike]

What does MOAT stands for?

Maritime Operational Aircrew Training (MOAT)
https://www.google.ca/search?rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&dcr=0&q=site%3Aarmy.ca++%22Maritime+Operational+Aircrew+Training%22&oq=site%3Aarmy.ca++%22Maritime+Operational+Aircrew+Training%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...4879.7409.0.7963.2.2.0.0.0.0.115.210.1j1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.4c3bNvval3I

[Dimsum]

Hi to all,
I need to find information on these 3 badges.
What does MOAT stands for?
What does HMVP stands for?
Where was the course given at?

Thanks

JF Chalifoux

I'll guess that HMVP is Her Majesty's VP (Maritime Patrol Squadron), since those seem to be Observer course patches.  The current MOAT course is for the CP-140 Aurora and given in Greenwood NS, but it could have been in other places in the past.

[Eye In The Sky]

MOAT was called OTU back in the late 60s when my dad went thru and it was in Greenwood then.  AES Ops were formally called Observers.  I’d have to do some digging to remember when Observers were renamed to AES Op but the number 081 is our old MOC number that is on one of the patches. 

My WAG for location though would be at the School in Greenwood.  I think ABATS came later than those patches in now closed CFB Summerside and then moved to Comox before ending up in Winnipeg again. 

Cool patches. We have a closed FB group I will post the patches in there and see if anyone can add some info. 

[Dimsum]

MOAT was called OTU back in the late 60s when my dad went thru

So, to complete the "what is old is new again" cycle, MOAT will have to be renamed "Aurora OTU" to a) be true to history and heritage, and b) be the same (again) as all the other airframe type courses.   

Sounds like a Briefing Note to me!