Author Topic: War In Iraq Debate  (Read 24636 times)

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Offline madpat

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Re: War In Iraq Debate
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2004, 21:26:00 »
Quote
Originally posted by SFontaine:
[qb] The second article explains all the weapons givin to Iraq by other countries, and America is not there. They‘d mentioned weapon supplies if the US had.

And do you have any concrete evidence the United States gave Saddam any such weapons anyway? [/qb]
Ummmm, would you count the first article as concrete evidence? It clearly states that a number of american choppers were sent and used by the Iraqi military. Perhapse they didn‘t mention that because they were biased? As for chemical weapons, even the right wing flag flying Bush loving media groups have aknowledged that it gave the essential chemicals to Iraq.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Infanteer:
[qb]   http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/program.htm  

I see that Iraq produced its own stocks.  Originally it imported the chemicals, but big deal, I could go to Costco and get most of those things.  Unless your going to offer positive proof that a Western country trucked in mustard gas, I still say your out to lunch.
[/qb]
Hmmmm, try as I might but I couldn‘t find: methyl phosphonyl chloride, phosphorous pentasulphide, ethylene oxide and di-isopropylamine listed anywhere on the costco web site, are these items that you have to go to the costo and pick up your self?  :dontpanic:
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Offline bobthebui|der

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Re: War In Iraq Debate
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2004, 21:34:00 »
could anybody here provide a source listing the chemicals sold to Iraq and what date? i believe it was 1984, but im not sure. i‘ve searched everywhere and am unsuccessful.
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Re: War In Iraq Debate
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2004, 21:54:00 »
Check www.fas.org

Good site to start with for all matters military.
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Offline bobthebui|der

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Re: War In Iraq Debate
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2004, 21:57:00 »
thanx.
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Offline Pax

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I think so Hussien was  I the need of a good *** kicking and he killed to many women and children.Hussien is the devil and the Hittler of are time.

 :gunner:  DIE!                 :evil:

Offline Pea Brain-Warrior(Banned)

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100'000 and counting...
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2004, 13:11:21 »
About 100,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children - have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by US forces, according to the first reliable study of the death toll from Iraqi and US public health experts. At Saddams most ruthless time in power he was alleged to have gased over 10,000 kurds in the kurd attempt of a rebellion. Saddam is going on trial for his crimes but his crime is 1/10 of bush's in term of death toll. Should Bush be brought to account for his crimes against humanity?

When will the killing end?
IWIN AJAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sill ppl

mine inglieesh ess nooo goot. YAR YAR

Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2004, 13:12:27 »
HEY HEY, look who decided to show up...
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Offline bobthebui|der

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2004, 13:13:37 »
The killing will end when the insurgents decide so..
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Offline Bograt

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2004, 13:17:12 »
About 100,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children - have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by US forces, according to the first reliable study of the death toll from Iraqi and US public health experts. At Saddams most ruthless time in power he was alleged to have gased over 10,000 kurds in the kurd attempt of a rebellion. Saddam is going on trial for his crimes but his crime is 1/10 of bush's in term of death toll. Should Bush be brought to account for his crimes against humanity?

When will the killing end?
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Offline Whiskey_Dan

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2004, 13:17:40 »
Politics shouldn't get involved in war, thats a dangerous thing to do. You dont see senators with children on the ground in Iraq.
Let soldiers fight soldiers, they're just doing their job, what they were told to do. It is war, and civilians will die, they're trying to bring peace to the country.

Offline Dogboy

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2004, 13:18:03 »
or when the invaders leave

its a two sided coin remember.

would you just sit at home if a foreign power came in changed our government ruin our economy and put someone they like in power.
ya I'm sher you'd just lay down and say nothing.
not that all the insergens are good guys but you've got to admirer they guts tho
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Offline Big Foot

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2004, 15:00:20 »
No matter how you look at it, innocent civilians are being killed and theres almost nothing that can be done to prevent it. What a shame...
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Offline 48Highlander

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2004, 15:06:35 »
or when the invaders leave

its a two sided coin remember.

would you just sit at home if a foreign power came in changed our government ruin our economy and put someone they like in power.
ya I'm sher you'd just lay down and say nothing.
not that all the insergens are good guys but you've got to admirer they guts tho

If the Americans had invaded, captured Jean Chretien, disbanded parliament, implemented a proper democracy, and helped properly re-arm our military....I don't think you'd see too many of us complaining  ;D

Offline Northern Touch

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2004, 15:59:48 »
About 100,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children - have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by US forces, according to the first reliable study of the death toll from Iraqi and US public health experts. At Saddams most ruthless time in power he was alleged to have gased over 10,000 kurds in the kurd attempt of a rebellion. Saddam is going on trial for his crimes but his crime is 1/10 of bush's in term of death toll. Should Bush be brought to account for his crimes against humanity?

When will the killing end?

Where do you get this "reliable" study from?
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Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2004, 16:02:11 »
"If the Americans had invaded, captured Jean Chretien, disbanded parliament, implemented a proper democracy, and helped properly re-arm our military....I don't think you'd see too many of us complaining."

Well said ;D
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Offline Scotty

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2004, 16:05:47 »
100,000 is an estimate by scientists who admit that the data they used was of "limited precision".  NGO's estimate it to be between 10-30,000.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-10-28-casualties_x.htm

Offline 48Highlander

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2004, 16:25:09 »
100,000 is an estimate by scientists who admit that the data they used was of "limited precision".  NGO's estimate it to be between 10-30,000.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-10-28-casualties_x.htm


Yeah it's amazing how the "estimated" number is always 100,000.  During the first gulf war, it was "estimated" that the US forces "slaughtered" 100,000 Iraqis on the Highway of Death.  Turned out to be less than 50,000.  In Kosovo, it was "estimated" that the Serbs "slaughtered" 100,000 Kosovars.  Turned out to be roughly 3,000.  Most of the time when you hear someone quoting an "estimate" of 100,000, it turns out that their method of estimation was something along the line of "well, 100,000 seems like a good number, let's use that".

Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2004, 16:32:15 »
Quote
not that all the insergens are good guys but you've got to admirer they guts tho

So dogboy you admire people that cut the heads off of people and shoot women in cold blood. You must be a lot of fun at parties.  ::)
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Offline cheeky_monkey

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2004, 16:53:18 »
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You must be a lot of fun at parties.

My Mr Wolf, What a sense of humor you have...
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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2004, 19:57:53 »
If the Americans had invaded, captured Jean Chretien, disbanded parliament, implemented a proper democracy, and helped properly re-arm our military....I don't think you'd see too many of us complaining   ;D

I would be. It's not like this parliament was forced on us. We, the Canadian people, elected it of our own free will. With democracy people get what they ask for, even if it isn't what's best for them, but at least they get the choice.

It's also important to note that in the event of any successful invasion of Canada, a large number of the people who post here (the people that would benefit from better equipment) would not be around to see any of the results. There's that little issue of taking an oath...

Equating the invasion of Iraq to a hypothetical invasion of Canada is just stupid. One nation was forced to suffer under a tyrant that it didn't choose, so invading to give them a choice eventually gives them something better in the end. The other voted for it's tyrant and gets to pick a new one every few years anyway, so invading gets them... the exact same thing, but with lots of people dead and a few years of no choice at all.

Oh yes, and regarding "propper" democracy, I much prefer our system, warts and all, over that of the US. Ours may need a bit of overhauling, but switching to their system would definitely be a step in the wrong direction.

edit: spell check aparently causes more typos than it fixes
« Last Edit: November 26, 2004, 20:02:07 by Storm »

Offline IT_Dude_Joeschmo

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2004, 20:13:02 »
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"If the Americans had invaded, captured Jean Chretien, disbanded parliament, implemented a proper democracy, and helped properly re-arm our military....I don't think you'd see too many of us complaining."

Well said

BOTH of you who were involved in this post should grow up. You should be ashamed for saying such a thing if your a member of the CF and it's sad that your one of the soldiers that swore an oath to protect our people.

Go move to the USA and buy a shotgun and chew on some grass and hang out with Bush's pals if you want it so bad! No one is stopping you are they?

I find a statement like that absolutely ridiculous from someone in the military and on this website. It disgusts me and that's my opinion. You shouldn't even bother being in the CF if you honestly believe+think like that!

It truly makes me sad.
 :(

PS> Why? Why would you say such a horrible thing? PM me a response since I don't want to clutter this thread with a verbal backlash if that's what you feel must justify your words for an excuse.
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Offline muskrat89

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #46 on: November 26, 2004, 20:44:32 »
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Go move to the USA and buy a shotgun and chew on some grass and hang out with Bush's pals if you want it so bad! No one is stopping you are they?

There are Americans on this site. My wife and child are American. I served my country for over 13 years, cupcake. I was the founder of New Brunswick's ANAVETS Unit...I was and am a proud Canadian citizen that happens to live in the US.

Quite frankly, I am growing weary of the anti-American rhetoric, and as a Moderator, will start treating comments like this the same as I would treat a comment that was offensive to a religion, colour, gender, orientation, etc. We have rules of conduct here, and have rules regarding the substantiation of posts/opinions. Stick to facts.

There are many, experienced posters here that demonstrate and back-up their positions against US actions and policies without sounding like a 23 year old Michael Moore wannabee.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #47 on: November 26, 2004, 21:27:53 »
The oath is one of allegiance to the Queen; there's surprisingly little in it about defending the institutions, government, or people of Canada.  Call me a heretic, but it would not surprise me if there was very little enthusiasm among the combat-capable members of the CF to risk death facing down the US on behalf of a government and people that has treated its armed forces and responsibilities of security so lightly.  That is probably a test of loyalty we really don't want to test; there is an old axiom of leadership about never giving an order that can't or won't be obeyed.  However, come the day, I suppose lawful authority might give a lawful command to fight to the death.  And, come the day, one might see lawful and honourable surrenders arranged in the field under flags of truce.  Under traditional rules of jus ad bellum, a hopeless cause is an unjust cause for which to make war.  Of course, were the government of the day and the people who adore Canadian Values to flock to the budget estimates and the recruiting centres to fervently equip, man, and sustain armed forces capable of defending the nation against any reasonably foreseeable US incursion, the cause of defending Canadian Values would certainly not be hopeless.

I fear I do not place much hope in the strength of oaths; life and limb are rarely at risk in marriage yet those oaths are cast aside for much lesser conveniences than the imperative of survival.  Such are the wages of social progress and the dogged pursuit of the primacy of license and privilege.

However, since I suspect most Canadians would be inclined to vote Democrat, we need not fear invasion until Democrats control the US institutions with the lawful authority to make war.

I speak for no-one; it's just something for you (collectively) to mull over in your own minds.
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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2004, 21:50:27 »
Go move to the USA and buy a shotgun and chew on some grass and hang out with Bush's pals if you want it so bad!

I'd have to agree with Muskrat here. Try "Go move to the USA and buy a shotgun and chew on some grass and hang out with Bush's pals if you want it so bad" instead.

Crewing grass with a shotgun in hand can be done just fine in Alberta   :dontpanic:


The oath is one of allegiance to the Queen; there's surprisingly little in it about defending the institutions, government, or people of Canada...

The Queen is a figurehead representing the Canadian people. As such, I view my oath to the Queen as an oath to the Canadian people, implying an oath to serve the government chosen by the people to represent them.

I fear I do not place much hope in the strength of oaths; life and limb are rarely at risk in marriage yet those oaths are cast aside for much lesser conveniences than the imperative of survival. Such are the wages of social progress and the dogged pursuit of the primacy of license and privilege.

"The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature..." John Stuart Mill

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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: 100'000 and counting...
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2004, 01:14:59 »
>The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety

That's my point.  What would there be about exchanging masters in Ottawa for masters in Washington that would motivate you to die fighting?
That which does not kill me has made a grave tactical error.

"It is a damned heavy blow; but whining don't help."

Despair is a sin.