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Why do we keep electing these people?

Stupidity
21 (61.8%)
No guts
13 (38.2%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Author Topic: Adscam/ Gomery Inquiry/ et al  (Read 81254 times)

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Offline Rick_Donald

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Re: Billions misappropriated? (i.e. "Adscam" only tip of the iceberg ... ?)
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2005, 10:19:26 »
Why do the people of Canada continue to reward the present reigning party with election after election when all these cold hard facts about lying, scamming,fraud and waste keep slapping them in the face?
  Why do people keep saying that even if the Conservatives did win the election that they would be just as bad when you haven't even given the Conservatives a chance since the 80's?
  And before you start bashing Mulroney's conservatives remember that the economic winfall that the 90's Liberals enjoyed was a direct result of policies put in place by the Conservatives(NAFTA, GST) that the Liberals, I might add, promised to eliminate but didn't. Now Martin has the nerve to claim responsibility for the boom of the nineties. Give me a break. Let's not forget the White Paper on defence that was started but eventually abandoned due to political pressure from opposition. This was a very real thing that could have occurred if the Canadian public had have been more optimistic and supportive. But everyone wanted to hang Mulroney and his Conservatives over the GST and Nafta (which turned out to be a success.)
Furthermore the New Conservatives are not the Progressive Conservatives of the past but an entirely new party that has never been given a chance to prove itself. So save your prejudgments for the other two parties.
  That's it, I'm done now.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Billions misappropriated? (i.e. "Adscam" only tip of the iceberg ... ?)
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2005, 11:29:00 »
Fairly simple answer to your question Rick.  The people know what the people are told.....And guess who's doing the telling?

Solution to that problem?  I dunno.
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Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Re: Billions misappropriated? (i.e. "Adscam" only tip of the iceberg ... ?)
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2005, 14:00:58 »
That is enough to make me pull my hair out.



M.   >:(
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Offline George Wallace

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Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 09:11:28 »
Breaking news on the radio; 0900 EST Thursday 2005 03 03:  Chretian lawyers trying to close down Gomery Inquiry by dismisal of Judge Gomery.
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Offline Whiskey_Dan

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 10:19:16 »
Haven't heard anything of that out here in the PST.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2005, 10:21:30 »
Seems his lawyers are taking the matter to the Federal Courts in the hopes of getting Judge Gomery dismissed.



[EDIT: 1028 EST]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1109860877610_105270077


Court asked to consider removing Gomery: report
CTV.ca News Staff

A month after their arguments failed to budge John Gomery from the helm of the sponsorship inquiry, lawyers for former prime minister Jean Chretien are asking the courts to intervene.

Citing sources close to Chretien, reporter Mike Duffy says briefs were filed with the Federal Court of Canada on Thursday morning.

"They're asking not that the commission be shut down, but that Justice John Gomery be removed as the head of inquiry," Duffy told CTV Newsnet in an interview from Ottawa.

First spurred by a pair of newspaper interviews published last December, in which Gomery said the sponsorship program was run in a "catastrophically bad way,'' Chretien's lawyers have argued that he has repeatedly shown bias.

Chretien's legal team argued their case in front of the veteran justice last month. When it was all over, Gomery said he regretted the "distraction," but had decided to stay put.

They then had 30 days to take their case to court.

MORE TO COME...






« Last Edit: March 03, 2005, 10:30:03 by George Wallace »
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Offline Blue Max

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2005, 10:44:46 »
Chretiens team is hoping to trip up and unravel the enquiry befor it completes its work, thus saving themselves anymore embarrasing revelations and most importantly, Chretien would be able to finish his memoirs as a self proficised saint. Yeh right >:D

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Offline pbi

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2005, 11:26:14 »
Quote
First spurred by a pair of newspaper interviews published last December, in which Gomery said the sponsorship program was run in a "catastrophically bad way,'' Chretien's lawyers have argued that he has repeatedly shown bias.

Well, well, well. "Catastrophically bad" for them and their gang, maybe. I say let them twist slowly in the wind.

Cheers
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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2005, 13:00:03 »
Isn't this the second time that Cretien has shut down a public inquiry early? I wonder what he has to hide....

Thank God he's not the PM anymore.

Offline Blue Max

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2005, 16:38:53 »
Caesar, what does Chretien have to hide you ask?

Just about any half rumour that was heard about his time in office, of which he was able to squash, hide or defend quite well from, to this day.

Because parliament can not clear the air of Liberal political machinations to control power, Canadian political morality/ideals are steadily being lowered to the lowerst common denominator, until one day we will be a true banana republic.   :rage:

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Offline helene_alone

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the Gomery Commission... Is it all Quebec's fault?
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2005, 22:27:10 »
I do not know how to approach the matter without sparking a fire that will go nowhere. But I feel bad. I've heard people suggesting that if the scandal happened, not only it was because of the Quebec separatist's menace but also because of the way business is done here, in Quebec (which implies that it is careless, fraudulent or even machiavelious) and I just wonder...
Are we really to blame for all this? do the rest of the Canada really think that it is Qubec's fault? Or is the reaction about the same as here, being that our politicians are somewhat unashame of doing illegals things,  justifying it by lies and are that this might exist (or could have existed)  for other motives than this one?
I don't know... I think I need a reality check...
pas facile pour ceux qui restent!

Offline InterestedParty

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Re: the Gomery Commission... Is it all Quebec's fault?
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2005, 22:51:07 »
Helene_alone

I certainly don't blame Quebec - if anything the electorate of Quebec are as outraged by the scandal as anyone in English Canada - which is the reason why the Bloc has done so spectacularly well against the Martin Liberal Party.  

I do blame the Chretien machine which doled out gobs of cash in an attempt to increase the presence of the federal government in the province - primarily in the sustained panic that overtook the feds after almost losing the country in 1995 referendum.

For what it's worth I think there is good chance that Mr. Martin will continue to pay for the sins of his predecessor, and the BQ will remain the dominate federal force in Quebec.   In fact, there was recent speculation that the Bloc could topple the minority Liberals on a budget vote, go to the polls and increase their share of seats past the current 54.

The real mystery is why Ontario federal voters - normally a pretty fastidious bunch - continue to support a clapped out party that stands for nothing except perpetuating itself in power.

Cheers, mdh

Offline Thucydides

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Re: the Gomery Commission... Is it all Quebec's fault?
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2005, 10:19:00 »
Short answer; don't blame Quebec, blame Cretien.

Unfortunatly, it is hard to imagine anyone connected with this will either be punished or spill enough beans to fully expose the corruption to the light of day. Imagine if Mr Dithers; the president of the Quebec caucus and Finance minister during the period in question can be proved not to be as clueless as he claims...he could share a cell with Mr Creitien, rahter than both of them continuing to milk taxpayers for huge sums of money.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: the Gomery Commission... Is it all Quebec's fault?
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2005, 10:27:45 »
Ottawa Sun 2005 03 10 Editorial:



http://canoe.com/NewsStand/OttawaSun/Editorial/

Thu, March 10, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following the money
The stench around the federal sponsorship scandal continues to grow stronger with each passing day, as does the suspicion that it was set up and run by a government without moral principles.

Members of the Lafleur family are providing us with daily jaw-dropping details about the massive waste of taxpayers' money through a program that was supposed to make Quebeckers feel at home in Canada.

Ironically the sponsorship fiasco may end up doing exactly the opposite, stirring up separatist emotions in a population that feels embarrassed by a government that thought its patriotism could be so easily bought.

This week we have heard the first direct evidence that some of the sponsorship money paid out by the feds flowed right back into the coffers of the Liberal Party.

Here's how it worked: Lafleur Communication Marketing prevailed on its own staff members and others doing contract work for the company to make donations to the campaign of a local Grit candidate.

In most cases the donors were then reimbursed by Lafleur at the same time as the company was billing the government for millions of dollars in commissions.

Yesterday Eric Lafleur, son of the firm's founder, startled us yet again when he disclosed that the name of one of his own employees, Michel Octeau, was used to bill thousands of dollars from the federal government despite the fact Octeau never worked for his father's company. "There are places where Michel Octeau is billed a relatively significant number of hours and I don't remember seeing Michel Octeau work on those projects," said Eric Lafleur.

The younger Lafleur also said he met occasionally with Chuck Guite, the former bureaucrat who ran the sponsorship file for several years.

Small wonder that former prime minister Jean Chretien was in such a rush to get the Gomery commission shut down. The extent of the rot that had set in under his watch may give him something he had always craved while he was in office -- a legacy that will long be remembered.

And another thing ...

Nice work by local police forces who pooled their resources to raid a multi-million dollar marijuana production network yesterday.

About 100 cops from the Surete du Quebec, RCMP, Gatineau and Ottawa police took part in the operation that netted both drugs and weapons.

Hitting the kingpins in the drug industry with the full force of the law is the right way to curtail this illegal business.

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Offline Horse_Soldier

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Re: the Gomery Commission... Is it all Quebec's fault?
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2005, 10:38:17 »
The real mystery is why Ontario federal voters - normally a pretty fastidious bunch - continue to support a clapped out party that stands for nothing except perpetuating itself in power.

Because people prefer the status quo?  They don't want things to change and are afraid that if the Conservatives get to power, things will change.  The known devil is better than the unknown one, especially the devil with Reform flavours still swirling around party policy.  Or you can blame the Liberal vote-buying in the 416 and 905 ridings that have a large and growing immigrant community.  Or you can blame the effete intelligensia that gravitates around Toronto and would rather have corrupt but "caring" liberals than a right of centre party - no matter how much better government it could deliver.  There is no rhyme or reason to it.  The one conservative win in Ottawa itself displaced the one liberal politician and minister who actually displayed fortitude and principles and a clear understanding of the nasty world in which we live.
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Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: the Gomery Commission... Is it all Quebec's fault?
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2005, 13:15:38 »
Where to place the blame:

Quebec? No.

Ontario? Partially, for refusing to do anything about the problem.

Club Auberge Grand Mère? Definitely!
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Offline RECON-MAN

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2005, 01:05:47 »
It's a shame they didn't give the right to charge them. & look at Chretien notes when he was PM Now that be a political junkie dreams come through
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Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2005, 11:52:20 »
In the news this morning:

Quote
Gomery testimony spurs election buzz
 
Scott Stinson and Paul Vieira, with files from Ian Bailey
National Post, with files from CanWest News Service

Saturday, April 02, 2005

Federal political party leaders are said to be holding emergency consultations this weekend after allegedly shocking new testimony at the sponsorship inquiry raised the spectre of a non-confidence vote that could hasten the fall of the Liberal minority government.

Sources said the Conservatives will discuss strategy and the possibility of a vote after learning the Bloc Quebecois may table a non-confidence motion to capitalize on Gomery Commission testimony that is said to be damaging to the Liberals.

The new testimony before Justice John Gomery cannot be revealed due to a publication ban, but it is said to be so damning that the Bloc would consider toppling the government in hopes of sweeping Quebec, where the sponsorship inquiry is closely watched, in the resulting election.

Conservative and NDP officials would not say publicly yesterday whether they are preparing for an election, but both parties do not want to appear as though they are eager for a vote.

Geoff Norquay, a spokesman for Conservative leader Stephen Harper, said talk of an early election was "nonsense," though he did note that last week saw some "clearly interesting developments" at the sponsorship inquiry.

James Moore, a Conservative MP from British Columbia and the transport critic, said speculation about an election was "news to [him]."

"However, I have heard that things are getting worse and worse for the Grits on this front," Mr. Moore said.

"This is the stuff of which authors make a lot of money," said one senior Tory insider, commenting on the latest Gomery testimony.

An opposition MP, speaking on condition of anonymity, said, "I've heard some of the Gomery stuff and if it gets out ... it won't go well for [the Liberals]."

The Canadian Press reported yesterday that Liberal MPs with safe seats were asked to contact neighbouring ridings where the party needs help organizing local campaigns.

"Our election readiness went up 20% today," an unidentified Liberal MP told The Canadian Press.

One senior Tory, who asked not to be identified, said yesterday that much of what happens in the coming week will depend on some key court rulings.

Lawyers for former chief executive of Groupaction, Jean Brault, former advertising executive Paul Coffin and Charles Guite, the former senior civil servant in charge of the sponsorship program, will be in court to ask that their criminal trials on charges of fraud and conspiracy be put off until September.

Mr. Brault began testifying before Gomery on Wednesday, while Messrs. Coffin and Guite are scheduled to do so later this month. Justice Gomery has sealed their testimony so that it does not prejudice their criminal trials, but if those court proceedings are moved to the fall a media lawyer will ask the sponsorship judge to rescind his ban. Such a move could mean the allegedly damaging testimony could become public by Wednesday.

However, a senior Liberal organizer well acquainted with the party's election plans said a snap election isn't on its radar right now.

"It is not really in the interst of any of the parties to force an election right now."

The organizer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, was not aware of any potential impact the secret Gomery testimony may have on an election call.

A senior Conservative strategist also said the election machine has not been kicked into high gear: "There are lots of rumours, but my bat phone hasn't been ringing."

However, The Canadian Press quoted the Tory justice critic as suggesting changes could be afoot.

"All I can say is that given what was said [on Thursday before Judge Gomery], the political landscape may be changing quite rapidly," Vic Toews said.
© National Post 2005
http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=942bf60a-31c3-4583-9b37-99f08cffded8
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Gomery Inquiry
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2005, 12:04:28 »
I noticed PMPM is looking a little ashen the past few days.
Living the lean life.

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Suppressed Sponsership Scandal Testimony Leaked To American News!
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2005, 03:16:00 »
Check these sites out....

The news story on the broken publication ban is at:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/04/04/981625-sun.html


Quote
Sun Media lawyer Alan Shanoff said publishing the name of the blog or the Canadian news site that promoted it or providing the blog's Internet address could lead to a contempt charge.

[Edited to remove link to US website article that has violated publication ban.   We don't want to see Mike with a contempt charge]
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 03:45:52 by MCG »
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Re: Adscam/ Gomery Inquiry/ et al
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2005, 07:20:25 »
For clarity, here's some more detail on the publication ban:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1112566210480&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes

Bloggers point way to banned Brault evidence


MIRO CERNETIG
QUEBEC BUREAU CHIEF

MONTREALâ ”Bloggers are using the Internet to get around the publication ban put in place by Justice John Gomery, which prevents publication of politically explosive testimony heard in the sponsorship inquiry.

At least two Canadian Internet sites, one well known to many who follow Canadian politics, have posted links to a conservative U.S. Web page carrying a 900-word synopsis of what was said in the hearing last week.

Canadian news outlets have been temporarily ordered by Gomery not to publish, broadcast or post on the Internet any testimony from Jean Brault, former president of Groupaction, the Montreal ad agency which earned millions of dollars in federal contracts.

Asked about the controversial move to offer links to the U.S. site, one Canadian Web operator responded: "No comment."

Brault, former bureaucrat Chuck Guité and ad executive Paul Coffin are due to appear in court May 2 on fraud-related charges involving the $250-million sponsorship program. Gomery ruled March 29 that media reports of their evidence so close to trial could make it difficult to find unbiased jurors.

The restriction could be lifted as early as this week, however, because Brault and Guité have asked that their criminal trial be postponed until September, a delay that could decrease the effect of the media on jurors.

[and, some more info from McG]:

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/04/04/981625-sun.html

Quote
The American blog, being promoted by an all-news Canadian website, boasts "Canada's Corruption Scandal Breaks Wide Open" and promises more to come. The owner of the Canadian website refused to comment yesterday.

Inquiry official Francois Perreault voiced shock at the publication ban breach, and said the commission co-counsel Bernard Roy and Justice John Gomery will decide today whether to charge the Canadian website owner with contempt of court.


Quote
Sun Media lawyer Alan Shanoff said publishing the name of the blog or the Canadian news site that promoted it or providing the blog's Internet address could lead to a contempt charge.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 07:23:19 by bossi »
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Offline mo-litia

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Check these sites out....

The news story on the broken publication ban is at:
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/04/04/981625-sun.html


[Edited to remove link to US website article that has violated publication ban.   We don't want to see Mike with a contempt charge]

True, true! Of course, if you read the article there is a certain phrase in quotation marks that will lead you right to the suppressed testimony via Google.   If accurate, the stuff is pretty shocking.

  Why do people keep saying that even if the Conservatives did win the election that they would be just as bad when you haven't even given the Conservatives a chance since the 80's?....
   And before you start bashing Mulroney's conservatives remember that the economic winfall that the 90's Liberals enjoyed was a direct result of policies put in place by the Conservatives(NAFTA, GST) that the Liberals, I might add, promised to eliminate but didn't. Now Martin has the nerve to claim responsibility for the boom of the nineties. Give me a break. Let's not forget the White Paper on defence that was started but eventually abandoned due to political pressure from opposition. This was a very real thing that could have occurred if the Canadian public had have been more optimistic and supportive. But everyone wanted to hang Mulroney and his Conservatives over the GST and Nafta (which turned out to be a success.)
Furthermore the New Conservatives are not the Progressive Conservatives of the past but an entirely new party that has never been given a chance to prove itself. So save your prejudgments for the other two parties.
   That's it, I'm done now.

Don't stop, I think you're just geting warmed up!   The real question to be asked here is just how complacent the Ontario voters are the next time we get a chance to go yo the polls. (Soon...vote of non-confidence, anyone? ;D)   I know Ontario is generally happy to wallow at the Liberal trough, but even the most die hard Fiberal must feel some anger at the way our tax dollars have been stolen from us.

She also explained how the Montreal Impact soccer team received almost $150,000 in sponsorship funds during the 1998-99 indoor season.

A similar request by the Edmonton Drillers soccer team was rejected, with the government claiming no funds were available.

Hmmm......yet another reason for western aalienation   This scandal could be the catalyst that kicks separation back into high gear out West. (Not that I'm advocating that   ::) )   Or, if the new government that we will likely soon get is SERIOUS about national unity, we'll have some badly needed electoral and senate reforms that will keep the majority of disgruntled Westerners reasonably happy with Confederation.

I'm sure glad all those transfer payments from my land of plenty went to a good cause.   :-X



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Offline E.R. Campbell

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...

... The real question to be asked here is just how complacent the Ontario voters are the next time we get a chance to go yo the polls. (Soon...vote of non-confidence, anyone? ;D)   I know Ontario is generally happy to wallow at the Liberal trough, but even the most die hard Fiberal must feel some anger at the way our tax dollars have been stolen from us.

...

There was an interesting little bit in the Economist a week or two back about so called dog whistle issues: those messages which are aimed at a well defined group and reach them without offending or even being much noticed by others.

One huge dog whistle issue in Ontario has been, for over 100 years but especially for the past 40 (Laurendau/Dunton, in '65, etc), that only the Liberals can manage Québec[/b] (a.k.a. keep Québec in its place).  Ontarians, despite the best efforts of Premier Dim Dalton McGuinty, are probably the lest 'regional' Canadians: most see themselves as unhyphenated Canadians, first, and Ontarians third or fourth.  Notwithstanding the fact that Québec no longer has much impact on Ontario's prosperity (it was Ontario's biggest market until the end of the '60s when Ontario morphed into what Prof. Tom Courchene (Queens) - http://www.queensu.ca/sps/faculty_and_fellows/faculty.htm - calls a North American Regional State), Ontarians still, quietly, almost silently, worry that Québec must be kept 'happy' and 'in' Canada.  Ontarians are willing to forgive the Liberals almost anything so long as Québec is an issue.  The Liberals must, as Trudeau did, actively persuade Ontarians that they (the Liberals) are in need of a rest and have lost control of Québec before Ontarians will vote them out.

If Québecers can convince that English national media, including the Toronto Star, that the Liberals have lost control of Québec then Ontarians will return something like 65 Tories, 20+/- NDPers and a bare 20 Liberals.  With 65 seats in Ontario, 70 in the West and 10 in Atlantic Canada the Tories can form a minority government.

A Tory minority will have to court support from one of:

"¢   A breakaway faction of fiscally conservative Liberals - a highly unlikely circumstance; Liberal Party discipline will remain strong;

"¢   The BQ - which is a leftish, pro-Kyoto, anti-military group;

"¢   The NDP and Greens - if they can develop and implement a strong green agenda; or

"¢   A Liberal Party which is too frightened to face the electorate again, for a while.

In any event, I think a Conservative government would affirm and maybe even expand the Liberal's $12.5 Billion/5,000 + 3,000 promise but I would not look for anything like $25 Billion and 15,000 + 5,000 which would be more realistic.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)
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Offline Aden_Gatling

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Re: Adscam/ Gomery Inquiry/ et al
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2005, 12:21:00 »
I, for one, am glad for the publication ban.  We should all be grateful that our political and judicial elite recognize that unlike them, we ordinary Canadians lack the moral and intellectual clarity to give Mr. Brault a fair trial after hearing his Gomery testimony.

From Instapundit.com:

Quote
Funny how our neighbors to the north lose their expansive view of international law when confronted with things like this:

    Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

Unless, you know, it's embarrassing to people in power or something.
  Internal link is to UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
« Last Edit: April 04, 2005, 12:43:36 by I_am_John_Galt »
There's a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Adscam/ Gomery Inquiry/ et al
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2005, 14:26:13 »
Funny how the only way to get "real" news in Canada is to read expat canadians like Mark Styen or David Frum, or hope US blogs like Instapundit will carry something. At least this will start putting Darwinian pressure of Canadian MSM and journalists to actually start reporting, as opposed to mouthing Liberal propaganda.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.