Author Topic: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?  (Read 9120 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,575
  • Crewman
Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« on: January 09, 2005, 19:47:03 »
I've heard a strong rumour that the Inf Bns and Armd Regts will be loosing their Cbt Sp and HQ Sqns in the coming year.  All the Mechs and Techs are to fall under the CS and GS Bn orgs and only the fighting echs will be left in the Bn and Regt'l orgs.  Just as Regt'l and Bn MPs are being called back to the MP Platoons.  The Medics have already been clawed back to the Fd Ambs.  Obviously the people making the decisions have never seen what they are making decisions on.

GW
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,744
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2005, 19:47:22 »
From my interpretation, 3VP will still have three rifle companies.   It is just that one of them will be unemployable.

GW,
Are you talking cbt sp or admin coys?

Offline Infanteer

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 167,930
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,145
  • Honey Badger FTW!
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2005, 19:49:00 »
I've heard a strong rumour that the Inf Bns and Armd Regts will be loosing their Cbt Sp and HQ Sqns in the coming year. All the Mechs and Techs are to fall under the CS and GS Bn orgs and only the fighting echs will be left in the Bn and Regt'l orgs. Just as Regt'l and Bn MPs are being called back to the MP Platoons. The Medics have already been clawed back to the Fd Ambs. Obviously the people making the decisions have never seen what they are making decisions on.

GW

Judging from the way George puts it, we're reverting to the 19th century....

From my interpretation, 3VP will still have three rifle companies.  It is just that one of them will be unemployable.

That's how I'm reading it as well....
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,575
  • Crewman
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2005, 19:54:37 »
MCG

That should be the Adm Coys.

GW
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,744
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2005, 19:59:47 »
The reason I ask, is that I have heard two COAs being passed about that, if mixed-up, could lead to what he describes.

One is that the Cbt Sp Coy will be disbaned in the infantry battalions.   This is because with pioneers, mortars, and TUA having been removed, the only thing left is Ops, Sigs, and Recce.   The theory is that Ops & Sigs can from an RHQ Tp (as the engineers do) or merge with admin coy to for RHQ Coy (as the armd do).   Recce would remain independant and report direct to zero.

The second thing is that maintenance platoons will be greatly reduced in all units.   This is because units will no longer have as many vehicles under whole fleet managment.   In the engineer world, we do not have MSE ops in our admin sqn, so I have not heard what plans may exist for them.   Admin Coys/sqns would continue to exist though.

Offline pbi

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 52,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,961
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2005, 03:45:32 »
I just took a look the latest SORD for 2005/6 (the Army's operating plan)-you can get it at the Army site or most LFAHQ sites. While the dissolution of the Cbt Sp Coy is not mentioned or even suggested, there is direction to examine further centralization of CSS in each LFA. There is also clear direction that in 2005 the M109 is to be taken out of service, the Cougar likewise, as well as the removal of Javelin, Skyguard and the Oerlikon 35mm. (Sucks to be a bird gunner). As well, the Close Support Service Battalion will be taken out of the CMBGs and merged back (once again...) with the GS Service Battalion, this time under LFA control. These are just a few of the changes....it's definitely worth a look.

Cheers.
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,744
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2005, 04:02:30 »
The Cbt Sp Coy thing is still just talk (but something I've heard from a few sources as a COA that is being passed about).

I think the big delay on actual details of Admin Coy/Admin Sqn/RHQ Sqn will be the ASR.  The support needs of every element of the Army is being re-evaluated.

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,744
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2005, 01:50:51 »
I'm now hearing that some assets will start to be pushed out into more units.  By the summer all of the units in 1 bde will have thier own MPs (currently only the manouevre units and 1 Svc Bn have this).

Offline Le Adder Noir

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 14,902
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 578
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2005, 02:04:28 »
If this is correct it would appear to be the final admission that we are no longer even pretending to field brigades....

Just "plug and play" sub units.............
Experience, whether personal or vicarious, is of value to leader and follower alike.  The hard part is using it well -- Adrian Goldsworthy

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,575
  • Crewman
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2005, 12:28:34 »
I'm now hearing that some assets will start to be pushed out into more units. By the summer all of the units in 1 bde will have thier own MPs (currently only the manouevre units and 1 Svc Bn have this).

In 2 CMBG the opposite is happening.  The Units are loosing their MPs to the MP Platoons and Base.  As I said earlier.  The same thing happened a few years back to our Medics, who now fall under 2 Fd Amb.  The majority of our Mechs will soon be under the Svc Bn (GS or CS or whatever they are reorging as).

GW
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,744
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2005, 14:45:44 »
Our Mechs & Medics are following the same trend as yours.

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2005, 14:55:39 »
If this is correct it would appear to be the final admission that we are no longer even pretending to field brigades....

Just "plug and play" sub units.............

I would even go as far as to say that we will no longer pretend to field units. Sending the CCS folks from the fighting units to the CSS units is logical if you are someone who doesn't vomit at the "plug and play" concept but IMHO, this will  be as short-lived as ATOF. It will however, be painful the whole way.....

The air force isn't doing any better if its any comfort

Offline Thucydides

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 194,765
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,702
  • Freespeecher
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2005, 00:14:39 »
It seems odd the "Big Heads" in Ottawa can come up with stuff like this, whille posters on various forums have converged on the exact opposite solution: some form of combined arms formation (ranging from a battalion to the entire Brigade). The change in perspective from the "field" to NDHQ must be very disorienting.....
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Le Adder Noir

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 14,902
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 578
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2005, 12:09:36 »
I think the Deutschers called that curious NDHQ state of mind Frontheimdzeidt (My apologies to those who actually read/write German without mangling it)

I believe they arranged regular tors of duty with line units to prevent the GHQ inspired divorce from reality.
Might be a good idea for the CF......as NDHQ has almost become a separate arm of service.....
Experience, whether personal or vicarious, is of value to leader and follower alike.  The hard part is using it well -- Adrian Goldsworthy

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,120
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2005, 14:39:35 »
I can see CBT SP coy being merged into Admn coy.  For us we have 2 MP's and 2 RP's, our medics work at the base clinic and will come out with the BN on ranges and excersises.  As mentioned above with the removal of TOW, Pioneers and Mortars it seems more likely that the other CBT SP platoons will be merged into Adm Coy and not the other way around.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline 2023

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 645
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2005, 20:38:11 »
It'll probably be the same as the Medical Coy. Feel free to correct me..........in 2 Bde, all of the Medics belong to 2 Fd Amb, with the exception of the Fd Hosp of course, and from there, they are farmed out to the Units. They fall under 2 Fd Amb for all administrative issues, etc.

That is probably what is going to happen the mechs, etc.
"Even if you control the physical, you do not control the man. If you control his mind.........then you have him."

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 207,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,744
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2005, 20:49:54 »
The consolidation of medics has happened across the country, just as the Fd Ambs no longer belong to the bde across the country.

Complete loss of mechs is unlikely.  However, ASR will likely reduce the number mechs because of the reduction of vehicles in units (due to whole fleet managment).

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,120
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2005, 20:53:10 »
I think a lot of those mech's will be going to Waingwright for the standing up of the laser tag concept but that's besides the point.  Although the medics maybe consolidated as of right now 2 RCHA and 2VP have their own medics when it comes to field work.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline 2023

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 645
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2005, 21:32:54 »
I think a lot of those mech's will be going to Waingwright for the standing up of the laser tag concept but that's besides the point.   Although the medics maybe consolidated as of right now 2 RCHA and 2VP have their own medics when it comes to field work.

You are correct, I need to clarify myself....the Medics are under the control of Fd Amb but are attach posted to the Units. They remain under Fd Amb control.
"Even if you control the physical, you do not control the man. If you control his mind.........then you have him."

EODSpr

  • Guest
Re: Loss of Admin Coy from Inf & Armd units!?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2005, 19:36:28 »
You are correct CHIMO, at 2CER (as you know) our UMS is staffed by attach posted Medics from Fd Amb and the Fd Hosp. As of late these personnel seem to be changing often (3 months), with exception to the Sgt and WO. If more are required for an Ex/Tasking they are loaned from Fd Amb for the duration of the task. New faces all the time, hard to know who's who.

E45