Author Topic: Afghan Medals Process (merged)  (Read 159459 times)

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Question about OP Athena and medals awarded - anyone know?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2004, 21:34:25 »
The GSC and the GSM ARE the tour medals for Op Athena, in Afghanistan. Try reading from the beginning of the thread and you'll understand your confusion.
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Offline signalsguy

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Re: Question about OP Athena and medals awarded - anyone know?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2004, 11:25:34 »
I was posted out of Pet this APS, when I got my new unit I looked into the status of my GCS, I was told: "Your losing unit will apply for you." So I didn't think anything of it until the CANFORGENs came out, at which point I checked into it again, and was told that I had to fill out the form myself.

About 2 months or so ago I filled out the Excel spreadsheet that was released by DHH, and submitted it to the OR. Hopefully it will show up sometime soon!

Hmm. Maybe it will be at the Xmas dinner... They say that the medal will only be awarded on a formal parade...

Offline KevinB

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Re: Question about OP Athena and medals awarded - anyone know?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2004, 14:16:06 »
Parasoldier,
 I'd have thought you guys would have been getting them by now - I heard thru the gravevine that the Vandoos got theirs (anyone confirm)
I woudl nto doubt that they told us about the parade so everyone stayed on leave till after X-Mas (no-one wants a parade or worse to be called at the X-Mas dinner).

 
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Re: Question about OP Athena and medals awarded - anyone know?
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2004, 17:59:45 »
Only two soldiers received their medal from the Governor General.  You would think that they would have been presented already, that would make things easier.  I guess the hold up is the individual names on the back. 

Offline reccecrewman

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Medal entitlements for Afghanistan Tours?
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2005, 21:38:57 »
Goodday all.  I am seeking some sort of explanation as to why I cannot mount my Non-Article 5 NATO medal.  I went to Afghanistan in Feb. 05 as part of Op. Athena Roto 3 and returned home this August.  At the end of tour, we were awarded our General Campaign Star w/ ISAF bar and a NATO Non Article 5 medal for the tour.  Both medals were awarded to us with the certicficate that accompanies them, however, we were told we could only mount the GCS, and not the NATO medal.  I don't understand this at all.  By the book, you're not allowed to have 2 medals awarded for the same tour, but, what about all the tours that went into Bosnia and they got their NATO SFOR medal and their Canadian CPSM medal????  One of the decorations are from NATO, but the second is Canadian.  The same thing goes for the guys that went to Afghanistan.  We got a Canadian medal (GCS) and the NATO medal.  So, I am seeking an answer as to why we cannot mount this medal.  As an added note to that, is there any way we can bring this about so we can mount this medal and if there is, what are the proper channels?  I know some of the guys that I did my tour with are writing letters to their respective MP's in their home districts, but, before I do anything, I'd like to know the proper way to do it.  Thanks alot for taking your time people.
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Offline KevinB

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2005, 21:57:08 »
The CPSM is a gimme for any Peacekeeping tour (UN or NATO)


The GCS is an tour medal - Some of the later SFOR tours where Non Article 5 - was not aware the ISAF tour was NA5 (has it gotten that bad? ;)) None of the previous tours got the NA5
 
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Offline Teddy Ruxpin

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2005, 22:15:14 »
NATO awards the Non Article 5 medal for ISAF.   Some countries, including Canada and the UK, have chosen not to accept the medal as they believe it is not sufficient recognition for the mission.   It is too easily confused with Bosnia and doesn't reflect the reality of the operation.   Hence, Canada awards the GCS with ISAF bar for ATHENA.

You cannot receive two medals for the same mission.   On Roto 2, we were specifically banned from attending NATO awards ceremonies and from being awarded the Non-Article 5 medal.   I was attached to KMNB for that rotation and both myself and the Canadians at HQ ISAF were directed not to accept the medal.   This policy (and it is a policy, as we confirmed in theatre) has been in place since Roto 0.

As for the CPSM, Canada, for a variety of reasons (all good in my book) does not regard ATHENA as a "peacekeeping" mission (see the DHH website for clarification), hence no "peacekeeping" medal.

IMHO, as someone who was there and had to tell a German General that I could not accept his awarding me a medal, people should suck it up and stop whining.   The GCS is more than sufficient recognition for this tour.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2005, 22:26:15 by Teddy Ruxpin »
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Offline Rider Pride

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2005, 22:22:59 »
I had a nice reply wrote up, but couldn't get it thru... :crybaby:

here is a couple references:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/med1_e.asp?cat=3

Basically cause the two medals you were awarded were for the same service on the same mission. The one issued by the Gov't of Canada takes precedence over any NATO or UN medal. Hence you can't wear the NA5.

and from the booklet:

Quote
The Canadian medals have a minimum period of service requirement,
usually a number of days, but they have no maximum meaning that all service with
this particular operation is recognized by one medal and/or bar. CF members, depending on
the mission, may also receive United Nations, NATO and other international mission medals
but these are not discussed in this publication. Canadian Honours policy precludes dual
recognition, this means that a specific service may only be recognized by the award of one
medal/bar, the only exception being the Canadian Peacekeeping Service Medal which may
be awarded, depending on the situation, in addition to another mission medal.

"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline devil39

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2005, 22:23:13 »
Bottom line is... if the government says that you cannot wear the medal...guess what?.....

You can't wear it.   

Anything other than the authorized Canadian medals, must be approved by the GG and published in the Canada Gazette...ie Gazzette'd.

Offline Fdtrucker

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2005, 23:39:50 »
There were Air Force personnel that work at KAIA (Nov 04 - Feb 05) who rx'ed both the GCS and the NATO medal with all intentions going to DHH and attempting to apply to wear both medal for the same tour. They passed this on to the trucker and movers who worked at KAIA as well. When told about the 1 medal per tour they said it did not apply to them and they would ask Ottawa for clarification. As of today they have not ( I know they will not ) Rx permission to wear both GCS and the NATO medal. Different elements have different intropersation

Offline devil39

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2005, 23:51:32 »
Oh, undoubtedly they must deserve it.   ???   A really rough tour of duty no doubt.

Pathetic! 

It is really all about the medals... isn't it?

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2005, 01:07:04 »
Bottom line is... if the government says that you cannot wear the medal...guess what?.....

You can't wear it.   


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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2005, 07:38:24 »
From my understanding the CPSM was awarded as recognition for "service to peace" or something like that.  I would think that it is more of a general medal than the mission specific awards, that is why it can be "paired up" with another (UNPROFOR) medal? 

My 2 cents
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Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2005, 09:38:16 »
From my understanding the CPSM was awarded as recognition for "service to peace" or something like that.  I would think that it is more of a general medal than the mission specific awards, that is why it can be "paired up" with another (UNPROFOR) medal? 

My 2 cents

It is a general service medal, just like the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal (CVSM) denoted someone in the Canadian forces in WW II, while theatre specific medals were for specific actions (France-Germany Star, Atlantic Star, Italy Star, etc.)
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2005, 11:38:30 »
The CPSM is a gimme for any Peacekeeping tour (UN or NATO)

Is there a reference for the NATO portion of this?  Been on two NATO's (STANAVFORLANT & STANAVFORMED) and we weren't entitled to the CPSM. We did do 28 days under the UN flag on the STANAVFORMED in the Adriatic, in which we were told that we needed at least 30 days on station to qualify for the FY and CPSM.

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Offline Teddy Ruxpin

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2005, 11:59:29 »
From DHH (DIN link:  http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dhh/honours_awards/engraph/honour_awards_e.asp?cat=3&Q_ID=36 ):

Quote
ELIGIBILITY & CRITERIA
Awarded for a minimum of 30 days cumulative service in a UN or international peacekeeping mission.

STANAVFORLANT & STANAVFORMED wouldn't be "peacekeeping" missions per se, but rather are NATO tasks.  It looks like your UN time just missed qualification.  There's a list of eligible and non-eligible missions on the DHH site (look for the link).

Cheers,

TR
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2005, 12:06:37 »
Is it because NATO took over ISAF that the GCS (and concurrent NA5) were awarded, as opposed to the SWASM when Devil39 and co. were in theatre?    I would assume that folks on ARCHER will also be back to the SWASM, wouldn't they...given CoC relationships?   

Personally, I think I'd rather have a GCS and Bar than an NA5 medal anyway...that is if I really cared about having anything at all.   Rather have a bunch of good stories shared with the guys and a knowing, "yup, yup....uhn hunh...oh yeah...*nudge*" than a "wow, that's a neat one, mister, what'd you get that for?"....

Cheers,
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Offline Teddy Ruxpin

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2005, 12:21:53 »
Well, I'll give this a shot:

SWASM was created specifically for combat operations against "terrorism" - for which OP APOLLO and OP ARCHER qualify, as does service training the Afghan Army.  Combat is defined as actively seeking and destroying the enemy. It is thus a "war" medal.

GCS is awarded for operations (not peacekeeping, but peace enforcement, stablization, etc.) in the presence of an armed enemy, for which OP ATHENA and OP ALLIED FORCE qualify.  There could easily be future bars to the GCS should we get involved in similar missions in other places.  There is a fine line between the GCS and "war" medals, but it is there...

Non-Article 5 is the NATO generic medal for non-article five operations (gee...).  NATO awards it for Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan.  It was widely felt by ATHENA Roto 0 that such a non-descript generic gong didn't do ATHENA (and perhaps future missions) justice, given the nature of the operation (non peacekeeping).  The UK felt the same way.

CPSM is awarded for 30 days on a traditional peacekeeping mission (UN, NATO, etc.).  This is a mission in which two (or more) warring parties agree on a truce (or something similar) and agree that a Canadian or multinational presence is required to implement the agreement.  Thus Bosnia and the horde of UN missions qualify.  CPSM is a Canadian service medal - as was pointed out previously - and is awarded alongside the international peacekeeping gongs.

DHH has put out a snazzy booklet (that can be downloaded from their website) setting all this out.

Cheers,

TR

A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn.

Dulce bellum inexpertis.

Offline Nerf herder

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2005, 13:01:28 »
Goodday all.  I am seeking some sort of explanation as to why I cannot mount my Non-Article 5 NATO medal.

Well well...good to see the "B" team made it home safe and sound.   ;)

As for your medal and not being allowed to wear it...blame it on the gov't. They don't want to recognise it, it wasn't issued by them, so be it. One mission...one medal period.

As for not getting a CPSM...guess what? Not a peacekeeping mission.

You got one medal for one mission....live with it. All the writing to all the MPs will not change a thing.

At least you didn't have to wait over 2 years to get it....like the troops from Roto 0.

As for the troops over here right now we've been informed that we will be recieving the GCS and the SWASM for two seperate missions.

Luck of the draw I guess.

Wear your medal with pride...you've earned  it.

Regards
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Offline Tango2Bravo

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2005, 13:38:01 »
I might be wrong, but I see the GCS as a "war medal", since you have an armed enemy.  I would certainly consider the pilots dropping bombs in 1999 as "at war", and they (finally) have the GCS.  Some may snicker, but I consider ISAF part of the war on terror. 

Regardless, welcome back reccecrewman! 

Franko, best of luck!

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Offline Teddy Ruxpin

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2005, 13:54:56 »
As I said, it's a fine (and blurry) line...  DHH appears to agree with you (and me, for that matter).  The GCS and CSM come before the CPSM in the order of precedence - as "war" medals.
A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, an amusing clock and a sack of French porn.

Dulce bellum inexpertis.

Offline Acorn

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2005, 19:51:29 »
As for the troops over here right now we've been informed that we will be recieving the GCS and the SWASM for two seperate missions.

Actually, I was wondering about that: the troops in TF Kabul are moving from ISAF to OEF, and the troops of TF 1-06 will be going over as OEF, and then transitioning to ISAF (I think). Has there been anything official on the gongs to be awarded (SWASM and/or GCS)? (Official being "in writing")

Acorn
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Offline PhilB

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2005, 20:04:06 »
Heres another question, the troops part of TF 1-06 deploying to Camp Mirage will be entitled to the GSM. If they spend 30days or more in Afghanistan in Khandahar they would be eligibale for the SWASM or the GCS?? I know that in the past people only received either the GSM or the GCS depending, however with if a SWASM was awarded would the troop get to wear both? Thanks

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2005, 20:10:09 »
If you move around within the same OP, say OP Athena, then no.   You would get the appropriate medal (Probably the highest).

If you move around between two different OPs then you would probably get both if one OP was SWASM and the other GCS.   Or perhaps you would get different bars for the ribbon if the two OPs were both the same, SWASM or GCS.

Trying to collect medals are we?   ;D
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 20:12:52 by George Wallace »
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Offline Acorn

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Re: Seeking Answers WRT Medals.......... Serious answers only please
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2005, 21:34:22 »
Trying to collect medals are we?   ;D

It's all about the gongs George. All about the gongs.  ;D
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