Author Topic: Fighter Pilot  (Read 248286 times)

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Offline Dimsum

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2017, 14:12:32 »
This question is primarily for current and former pilots of the RCAF with regards to pursuing graduate level education and their schedule. Glossing over some RCAF pilot resumes on Linked In such as Joshua Kutryk ( newly appointed astronaut with the CSA), I couldn't help but notice graduate level attainment while listing his occupation as a Fighter Pilot during the same time period. Is it reasonable to pursue higher education while also handling a full-tiime operational flying schedule, or is it likely the case that a period of time away from flying was granted while pursuing said education. Prior to initiating my application to the CAF, I researched a typical pilot workday. I came across numerous USAF pilots stating that they could reasonably expect to pull 12 to 16 hours at squadron. If this is the norm, I struggle to see how someone can handle to balance an active duty flying schedule and higher education simultaneously.

Likely those were done when he was on staff postings (on his time off), or during Aerospace Systems Program (which has a Masters option) or Joint Command and Staff Program (which is a Masters in itself).  Both ASP and JCSP are postings where you go to school.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #151 on: September 28, 2017, 16:37:21 »
Josh was never in a Staff job.  He did Test Pilot School which grants a Masters and JCSP which also grants one.  The other one was done on his own time.  You can do it, but there are consequences to your personal life.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #152 on: September 28, 2017, 18:40:09 »
....or  Joint Command and Staff Program (which is a Masters in itself).
He did Test Pilot School which grants a Masters and JCSP which also grants one.

Just for clarification, JCSP does not automatically come with a recognized academic graduate degree.

From the CFC website, "It is a professional one-year Master's Degree awarded by the Royal Military College of Canada" -- 'professional' means that it is a technical degree;  in most academic institutions, it is not recognized as a Masters degree suitable for advancement into a PhD programme;  the CFC website used to spell that out.

Also, the site specifies that

The degree of Master of Defence Studies will be awarded to JCSP students who successfully complete a programme of studies comprised of either of the following patterns:
blah blah blah [actual course content]...

And:
PR500: Directed Research Project

PR500 = You also have to do some research and write a coherent, defensible thesis;  the MDS (for whatever value) doesn't come automatically for having survived a few months along Yonge and/or Church streets.
It should now be obvious that running a country is NOT an entry-level job.  [Yes, it applies to both sides of our border]

Offline Dimsum

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #153 on: September 28, 2017, 19:04:39 »
Just for clarification, JCSP does not automatically come with a recognized academic graduate degree.

From the CFC website, "It is a professional one-year Master's Degree awarded by the Royal Military College of Canada" -- 'professional' means that it is a technical degree;  in most academic institutions, it is not recognized as a Masters degree suitable for advancement into a PhD programme;  the CFC website used to spell that out.

Also, the site specifies that

The degree of Master of Defence Studies will be awarded to JCSP students who successfully complete a programme of studies comprised of either of the following patterns:
blah blah blah [actual course content]...

And:
PR500: Directed Research Project

PR500 = You also have to do some research and write a coherent, defensible thesis;  the MDS (for whatever value) doesn't come automatically for having survived a few months along Yonge and/or Church streets.

Huh, didn't know that.  Thanks for the clarification.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

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Offline Roger123

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #154 on: October 01, 2017, 11:17:23 »
Thanks for the information guys, really appreciate it and this community. This question came to me in the shower and I dont ever think I came across such a topic. Lets suppose you complete pilot training, get winged, moved to an operational squadron and carry out the length of your contract with a clean history. You decide at the time you want to be a civilian and get a job flying the friendly skies for an airline company. A year passes and your perspective changes and you miss the life you had for the last decade. Is the sign up process the same? ( Online application,CFAT, interview, medical, aircrew selection, competition list, selection). And if you do get in again, are you fast tracked to your former airframe and duties or do you get the opportunity to switch routes ( Rotorwing to Multi, Multi to Fast Jet, vice versa, etc)

Offline mariomike

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2017, 12:56:07 »
A year passes and your perspective changes and you miss the life you had for the last decade. Is the sign up process the same? ( Online application,CFAT, interview, medical, aircrew selection, competition list, selection).

Getting back in is discussed here,

Getting Back In/Re-enrolling Mega Thread
https://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=294.75
37 pages.

As always,  Recruiting is your most trusted source of information.

And if you do get in again, are you fast tracked to your former airframe and duties or do you get the opportunity to switch routes ( Rotorwing to Multi, Multi to Fast Jet, vice versa, etc)

Not the same as getting back in as an experienced Pilot, but, you may find this of interest anyway, as it comes from a Pilot,

If you want wings, (like I've got), you'd better adjust that attitude.  The answer, is, and always has been, you'll go where the service can use you based on your abilities and the needs of the service.  That situation is so fluid that there is no point speculating on it until you're just about done BFT.   
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 13:11:48 by mariomike »

Offline Loachman

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2017, 17:54:01 »
Lots of guys have come back over many years. Repetition of CFAT and ACS are not required. Many of the returnees have been posted into staff positions, however, before eventually getting back into cockpits.

Offline Roger123

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Re: So, you want to be a Fighter Pilot?
« Reply #157 on: October 01, 2017, 19:10:23 »
Interesting.I would expect that the contract length for returning aircrew would be less than for ROTP, DEO and CEOTP candidates without prior military flying experience in such cases.

Offline Rmcmomf18

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Help - does a fighter pilot need engineering?
« Reply #158 on: March 18, 2018, 11:38:15 »
My son did extremely well in air crew selection and is currently at rmc. He wants to switch out of engineering. How many fighter pilots in the RCAF are not engineers? And does not being an engineer affect the selection process for the f18’s? Will he be at a disadvantage in his career as a flighter pilot regarding promotions, etc. ?

Offline Loachman

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Re: Help - does a fighter pilot need engineering?
« Reply #159 on: March 18, 2018, 12:17:17 »
This he can and should investigate himself.

He is an adult and striving to become an Officer. He needs to find his own way.

You need to let him do that, even if it is difficult for you.

Offline Quirky

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Re: Help - does a fighter pilot need engineering?
« Reply #160 on: March 18, 2018, 14:38:04 »
There are fighter pilots with only a basket weaving degree from Seneca, you don’t need a real degree.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Help - does a fighter pilot need engineering?
« Reply #161 on: March 18, 2018, 14:58:23 »
Ben Affleck couldn't even read and he was a fighter pilot  ;D

#PearlHarbor


Offline Lumber

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Re: Help - does a fighter pilot need engineering?
« Reply #162 on: March 18, 2018, 16:46:46 »
Unless you are an Engineering Officer of some sort, they literally don't give a crap what degree you have.

In fact, I'm not even sure why you need an engineering degree to be an engineering officer, everything they need to be able to do is either taught to them on course, in which case anyone with a head in their shoulders, engineering or degree or not, should be able to do it, or it's admin/management type work, which no one is taught at all.
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Online Good2Golf

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Re: Help - does a fighter pilot need engineering?
« Reply #163 on: March 18, 2018, 19:21:45 »
My son did extremely well in air crew selection and is currently at rmc. He wants to switch out of engineering. How many fighter pilots in the RCAF are not engineers? And does not being an engineer affect the selection process for the f18’s? Will he be at a disadvantage in his career as a flighter pilot regarding promotions, etc. ?

The RCAF will select whomever they need into whichever branch of the RCAF they feel appropriate (fighter, transport, maritime patrol, trainer, search and rescue planes and helicopters, ship-based helicopters, ‘army’ helicopters and even special operations pilots).  Pilots do not have any particularly exceptional educational requirements...in fact, ironically, amongst the least demanding education requirements for officers....

Skills and aptitude, that’s a different story. I know a guy with an arts degree in history and he could put the skid of a black helicopter within half a meter of a hover spot above the deck of pitching ship in 60 km/h winds...

Your son should make his choice as to what he wants to do, but most importantly to learn to do that well...to do anything he does well!  There is a classification called Aeronautical Engineer (AERE).  The officers supervise technicians who fix the aircraft that pilots break. If you really want your son to be an engineer, perhaps suggest he might be fixing things that pilots break than being a pilot himself.

:2c:

Regards,
G2G

p.s. Your son really doesn’t have much say as to what aircraft he would eventually fly, assuming he passes all the way through pilot
training.

Offline Rmcmomf18

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #164 on: March 18, 2018, 19:35:05 »
Thank you G2G. I don’t know any fighter pilots. Appreciate your comments, it helps 😊

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #165 on: March 18, 2018, 19:58:54 »
Thank you G2G. I don’t know any fighter pilots. Appreciate your comments, it helps 😊

You’re very welcome, Rmcmomf18.

I know a few...they’re not bad when you really get to know them. ;D

Seriously though, the ranks of CAF officership is replete with many who initially desired to be pilots, or more specifically (depending on a number of factors at the time, C-130 Hercules, or CP-140 Aurora pilots, etc.) a particular type of aircraft.

Good to have a goal to aim for, but it should be your son’s own goal, and your goal, understandably, is to support him as best as possible to help him achieve that goal. The general trend of such goals tends to change over time.  In the 80’s, the trend was that most seemed to want to be fighter pilots, myself included.  I watch ‘Top Gun more than a few time when it came out in 1986.  The CF-18 Hornet was just a few years old - and considered a leading edge, modern aircraft.  I ranked very highly in my training, but was chosen by others for a pilot stream over which I had no choice.  In the end, I had a rewarding flying career of more than a quarter century, and truth be told, wouldn’t change a thing, even if given the choice for a ‘re-do’, ‘coolness’ of the CF-18 at the time notwithstanding.

These days...I don’t know. The CF-18 isn’t what it used to be.  It may be still cool, but it’s more than a third of a century old.  By the time it finished serving the RCAF, it will be close to half a century old.  To out that in perspective, if the RCAF did that with a World War II era Spitfire, it would still be flying after the Berlin Wall was taken down in 1989...seven years after the CF-18 itself entered into service!

Anyway, I hope your son is successful
First during his studies at RMC, and then through pilot training. I hope he gets support from you and others, and that he himself finds the drive and motivation to succeed, including in whatever academic program he pursues.

Regards,
G2G
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 20:02:11 by Good2Golf »

Offline Rmcmomf18

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #166 on: March 18, 2018, 20:34:18 »
Thanks again G2G. Your absolutely right. I just want my son to make an informed decision. He’s a smart cookie, I know he will. I just have to wrap my head around all this. 🤕Thanks again. Take care

Offline gamerxy

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #167 on: May 10, 2018, 14:13:13 »
Thanks 3<

Offline Loachman

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #168 on: May 10, 2018, 14:22:42 »
Son of Rmcmomf18, perchance? Welcome to the Site.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #169 on: May 10, 2018, 16:37:50 »
I'm not a pilot, but I work for and with them regularly on the CP-140 Aurora long patrol aircraft.  I'll just add a few things, from the perspective of a non-fighter type.

Fighters are fast, and might make other fleets seem less...attractive.  But our pilots are challenged in many ways that fighters pilots may not be.  Aurora pilots come off their course as First Officers (FOs) and immediately start working towards their Long Range Patrol Captain upgrade.  They start to learn, understand and master the flying aspect and the tactical aspects of the entire set of mission profiles LRP crews do.  Anti-submarine, Anti surface warfare, Search and Rescue, overland missions, support to other departments and agencies, counter-drug operations are the ones that immediately come to mind.  Once they are LRP Captains, they usually start working towards the LRP Crew Commander qualification;  they are then responsible for the entire LRP crew and all of the leadership, administration and training of the entire crew (assisted by a few other key people on the crew). 

Once they are LRP Captains, they are involved in the training of newly arrived FOs; once they are LRP CC, they are involved with the training of FOs and LRP Captains.  Some of them move into the Standards and Training Office and oversee the entire group of Pilots on Squadron.  From there they can move onto being Aircrew Flight Commanders (Major rank), Standards and Training Flight Commanders, etc and other positions such as Squadron Deputy Commanding Officers.  As Senior Captains and Majors they can also be selected as Air Task Force Commanders (in the Aurora fleet, at least).

Multi-engine can be 'lower and slower' flying, but flying 100' off the ocean at 220kts tracking a submerged contact (on exercise, or 'non exercise') is also pretty thrilling.  As our pilots progress, they are presented more and more responsibility and leadership function on the crew and Squadron.  I'll never be one myself, but I can imagine it must be pretty satisfying to land a CP-140 Aurora after a 12+ hour mission that was executed with great results as not only a pilot but as the crew commander. 

They also get to see a lot of places during their flying tours;  and - they always get their own hotel room at my Squadron (this becomes important as your time on Squadron ticks by!).

Fighters are cool and do cool things, for sure, but the other fleets are also demanding, rewarding and satisfying as well.  I've done some cool missions with LRP pilots as well.  I think you could talk to aircrew from the other fleets and get similar info to mine above.  If you get selected, make it thru trg and don't get fighters, don't for a second doubt that you won't be challenged and rewarded as well.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4175083/canada-north-korea-surveillance-mission/

Cheers and good luck!
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 16:44:25 by Eye In The Sky »
"What a f$$kin' week!" - me, every Monday at about 1130hrs.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #170 on: May 10, 2018, 17:42:27 »
Forget that crap.

Tac Hel is the only worthwhile pursuit.

EITS' idea of "low" is almost nosebleed altitude. Why would anybody want to fly that high?

Hotels? Pfffffftttttttt!!!

Modular tentage is w - a - y more luxury than anybody needs.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #171 on: May 11, 2018, 12:13:17 »
What's that saying I heard...."there's no hell like TacHel;D
"What a f$$kin' week!" - me, every Monday at about 1130hrs.

Offline AK

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Re: Fighter Pilot
« Reply #172 on: May 30, 2018, 10:53:59 »
I remember a time back in charm school (aka military college) when I asked my classmate about his Plan B if he failed pilot training.  He looked at me as if I had grown another head and told me "I don't need a Plan B".

He has had a lovely 27 year career as a MARS officer.

Offline pierrezzz7

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Becoming a Pilot
« Reply #173 on: September 30, 2018, 22:12:32 »
I'm 18 I can't seem to find direct information on what do I need to become a fighter pilot
I need to know what education I need because I know a secondary 5 is not enough to become a Pilot ( I'm from Qc)
I'm simply looking for clear steps, instructions and requirements on how i can reach the pilot job

Offline mariomike

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Re: Becoming a Pilot
« Reply #174 on: September 30, 2018, 22:17:33 »
I need to know what education I need because I know a secondary 5 is not enough to become a Pilot ( I'm from Qc)
I'm simply looking for clear steps, instructions and requirements on how i can reach the pilot job

See also,

The "So You Want To Be A Pilot" Merged Thread 
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,12744.msg1548941.html#msg1548941
56 pages.