Author Topic: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read  (Read 3373 times)

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Offline Buzz

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"If your going through hell, keep going" -Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2005, 16:34:56 »
Bah, Politics....
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2005, 16:37:11 »
Mod note,...I know some of you will want to bash the University system, professers, etc, but we have done that before, lets try to answer the question, "what is this guy thinking and why?"..    and how did things get this bad where people don't see the double standrd in this reaction from the student lawyer.

On Monday, Colorado administrators announced they had canceled a speech by Churchill for Tuesday because of security concerns. Earlier this month, Hamilton College in upstate New York canceled a speech by Churchill because of death threats against the professor and its administrators.

"We feel that this is an extreme violation of our free speech rights," said Mo Wells, a member of the Colorado student group that organized Churchill's speech. The group planned to file a lawsuit Tuesday challenging the cancellation.


"The university ... is obligated to provide security for Ward Churchill," David Lane, an attorney for the student group, told Denver station KDVR-TV. "They simply can't put a gag in his mouth by telling him, `Well, there are these violent wackos out there that want kill you so we're not going to let you give your speech."'......see what I mean?

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Offline Buzz

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2005, 16:58:30 »
I concur it is a double standard.  The thing that found most intriguing was that everything he stated, was fact, and yet isn't allowed to compare past events to WW2..and give a speach due to his essay because the Uni went public with it..Nice place to work!!...Personally I'm bias. The almighty American way there that's for sure. But at the same time if we are a peace keeping country (everybody loves canadians), why is it that we aren't acting on peace and sitting on the fence in Iraq policing against war crimes and acting as a security force for innocent bystanders that get caught in the crossfire. IE) observers. Also, trying to maintain a political edge versus brute.  I know the answer....I think it goes with the term "can't keep up with the big dogs stay on the poorch"  Personally, I don't like sitting on the poorch. Who does? 

-Buzz


« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 17:31:59 by Buzz »
"If your going through hell, keep going" -Sir Winston Churchill

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2005, 22:27:22 »
Everything is fact?

Funny the good prof forgot to mention the $21 Billion dollars siphoned off from the "Oil for Food" program, which instead of buying food and medicine or infrastructure upgrades, went to bribing EU, Russian and Chinese diplomats and businessmen to push for an end to sanctions and containment; building dozens of lavish "Palaces" for Saddam and his cronies;, and of course, paying for activities which were interpreted by every intelligence agency as being WMD programs. Perhaps this sort of activity (financial corruption dwarfing the scale of ENRON and other US financial scandles of the same time period combined.) just might have something to do with the deaths of innocent Iraqis as well.

I think what is really happening to the good prof and his fellow travellers  is that their interpretation of events is so wildly at odds to the reality unfolding all around them that few people outside the cloister are buying it any more. University administrations may be getting nervous that parents, allumni and potential benefactors will look at essays and speeches like this and say "WTF?", before deciding to send their children and money elsewhere. After a reality check like that, I would guess the good prof might not have a job to come back to in the near future.

This is all I will say on the subject, but I do encourage people to go to the links and read the essay, then compare the assertations to the history we have experienced since 1991. I am confident that you will draw similar conclusions to my own.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Infanteer

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2005, 04:30:25 »
Although I said "bah", I'll offer a personal observation.

My Father still has a ticket with a Sept. 10/11, 2001 date on it for a conference he was supposed to attend at the WTC.   He was in Chicago the week before and the conference was cancelled.   The morning of the attacks on the WTC, my Father was sitting on the couch in disbelief when he realized that he was supposed to be there.   It didn't help his shock when he got a call from his associate in New York that morning stating that the company he was dealing with (who was putting on the conference) and all it employees/execs had been wiped off the planet.

Now, I have trouble with this man equivocating my Father to Adolf Eichmann.   It leads me to believe that he has a distorted view of history and current events.   I think a statement like this is disgusting because it:

1) Maligns hard working people, like my Father, who are just working to raise their family by associating them with a genocidal butcher.

2) Maligns those who survived the Holocaust by trivializing their experience through a flippant comparison of it with a bunch of White-Collar workers.

I have no trouble understanding the point this fellow is trying to make.   As a adherent to the "Fourth Generation Warfare" school of thought, I can see a good argument how for terrorist forces this was not a criminal act but rather an asymmetric strike on a target at their enemy's center of gravity.

However, for this fellow to come out painting individuals with a crude, distorted, inaccurate and extremely distasteful brush smacks of stupidity (if he posted that here, we'd ban him as a "troll").

Once again, I am reminded that education and intelligence don't necessarily mean the same thing.

Infanteer Out.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2005, 04:35:42 by Infanteer »
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline paracowboy

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2005, 15:33:08 »
Ward Churchill, the pretend Indian:
- has, at various times, claimed to be one-16th Cherokee, three-16ths Cherokee, and â Å“part Chippewa-Cherokee.â ? The Cherokee nation, however, says there is no record of him actually having any Cherokee blood. Mind you, he did become an "associate member" when whites were allowed to join (this has long-since been revoked).
- exploited his (supposed) Indian status for years, but has been rejected by most American First Nations for his rabid anti-Americanism, and passionate espousal of radical (and violent) left-wing causes.
- has been accused of helping the violent Weather Underground.
- downgrades the Holocaust against Jews and then turns around and says it applies to America's treatment of Indians.
Ward Churchill: confirmed liar.
Ward Churchill: twit of the first order.
...time to cull the herd.

Offline DaveK

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Re: Ward Churchill - "Some People Push Back".. Interesting read
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2005, 14:37:20 »
Everything is fact?

Funny the good prof forgot to mention the $21 Billion dollars siphoned off from the "Oil for Food" program, which instead of buying food and medicine or infrastructure upgrades, went to bribing EU, Russian and Chinese diplomats and businessmen to push for an end to sanctions and containment; building dozens of lavish "Palaces" for Saddam and his cronies;, and of course, paying for activities which were interpreted by every intelligence agency as being WMD programs. Perhaps this sort of activity (financial corruption dwarfing the scale of ENRON and other US financial scandles of the same time period combined.) just might have something to do with the deaths of innocent Iraqis as well.

I think what is really happening to the good prof and his fellow travellers   is that their interpretation of events is so wildly at odds to the reality unfolding all around them that few people outside the cloister are buying it any more. University administrations may be getting nervous that parents, allumni and potential benefactors will look at essays and speeches like this and say "WTF?", before deciding to send their children and money elsewhere. After a reality check like that, I would guess the good prof might not have a job to come back to in the near future.

This is all I will say on the subject, but I do encourage people to go to the links and read the essay, then compare the assertations to the history we have experienced since 1991. I am confident that you will draw similar conclusions to my own.
\
Too right!   Here's a little bit more on the great utopian UN.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2005/02/15/do1502.xml