Poll

Is HF necessary on todays battlefield?

Yes
26 (92.9%)
No
0 (0%)
Depends on how we structure the military
2 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 22

Voting closed: April 20, 2005, 15:49:08

Author Topic: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause  (Read 44631 times)

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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2007, 21:01:51 »
Don't forget its more then the guys in the green that use HF, its also us Naval types who use it as well. We would be foolish to drop it.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2007, 21:06:44 »
And so does the Air component.  Used in Herc (that I know of) for very long range comms...

Max

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2007, 21:07:54 »
Aurora has 2 HF radios on board

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2007, 21:29:10 »
Don't forget its more then the guys in the green that use HF, its also us Naval types who use it as well. We would be foolish to drop it.

Excellent point. All major warships have several HF transmitters and over a dozen receivers in order to have voice and data capabilities other Naval units, Maritime aircraft, AWACS and the Army during joint Naval/Army exercises life SCTF, MARCOT etc.

I will agree that with the abundance of Satellite systems that we do not utilize HF as much as we used to, however HF is still used especially with our aircraft. I can't comment on the Auroras, but I don't think the sea kings have any satellite ability. If you are a sea king pilot departing St.John's Newfoundland heading out to meet a warship on the Grand Banks around 150-200 nautical miles away and half way out to the ship the Aircraft beacon (distance & bearing to the ship) goes down for whatever reason, I'd want to be able to have HF Voice available so I can find my one and only landing spot in the middle of the ocean.

Satellite is easier when it works but is harder to setup and troubleshoot as there are many agencies (military and non-military) involved, however HF is more forgiving to a skilled operator.

The Amateur world current utilizes Pactor III coupled with computer systems in order to send/receive emails, images etc at a rate of 5200 Bit/sec.
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2007, 21:32:01 »
I can't comment on the Auroras,

CP-140 has SATCOM both for voice and data

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2007, 21:33:37 »
CP-140 has SATCOM both for voice and data

Good to know.... can you re-configure that during flight to get the hockey games??   ;D
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2007, 21:37:37 »
Good to know.... can you re-configure that during flight to get the hockey games??   ;D

We get our scores sent to us a CRATT usualy

Offline George Wallace

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2007, 21:39:16 »
Don't forget its more then the guys in the green that use HF, its also us Naval types who use it as well. We would be foolish to drop it.

OK.....I'm 'Green', but I thought that the Navy was using UHF more often than HF, or do I have all my "HF's" confused........which wouldn't surprise me as I only use them and sometimes break them......never fix them.  
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2007, 21:41:16 »
Depends on the ranges involved...we use HF, UHF and SHF all the time these days.
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2007, 21:43:51 »
We (CP-140) need VHF-AM, VHF-FM, UHF and HF to do our jobs

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2007, 21:45:29 »
OK.....I'm 'Green', but I thought that the Navy was using UHF more often than HF, or do I have all my "HF's" confused........which wouldn't surprise me as I only use them and sometimes break them......never fix them. 


HF - Pretty much world wide depending on current propagation
UHF - Line of Sight
VHF - Just over the horizon
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2007, 21:48:27 »
Quote
VHF - Just over the horizon

If you are lucky.....

I hate HF, 7 hours on a headset on TG ReP HF and you want an ear drum transplant.....
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2007, 21:51:03 »
If you are lucky.....

I hate HF, 7 hours on a headset on TG ReP HF and you want an ear drum transplant.....

That's why aviation invented something called SELCAL :P

Max

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2007, 21:52:06 »
Depends on the ranges involved...we use HF, UHF and SHF all the time these days.

shf? super high freq?
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2007, 21:55:04 »
The Sea King has an HF set straight out of the 50's.  No SELCAL....just hours and hours of static.  Which is why we make the AES Op monitor it!  :D

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #90 on: December 17, 2007, 21:56:00 »
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #91 on: December 17, 2007, 21:56:17 »
VHF in my experience works up to 15-20 nautical miles. I've seen in certain parts of the world the range reduced and increased up to 30-40 nautical miles (Tropospheric Ducting) when we were operating in the Souther Mediterranean regions.

SHF = Super High Frequency, used in satellite comms which yields a good good bandwidth of up to 512KBps
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2007, 21:56:32 »
The Sea King has an HF set straight out of the 50's.  No SELCAL....just hours and hours of static.  Which is why we make the AES Op monitor it!  :D
Then you do have a SELCAL, it's just called an AES Op in your airframe :D

Max

aesop081

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #93 on: December 17, 2007, 21:56:47 »
Which is why we make the AES Op monitor it!  :D

*cough*prick*cough*

Offline George Wallace

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #94 on: December 17, 2007, 21:57:23 »
Squelch!

Turn on the Squelch.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2007, 21:57:29 »
VHF in my experience works up to 15-20 nautical miles. I've seen in certain parts of the world the range reduced and increased up to 30-40 nautical miles (Tropospheric Ducting) when we were operating in the Souther Mediterranean regions.

SHF = Super High Frequency, used in satellite comms which yields a good good bandwidth of up to 512KBps

It depends on the height above ground of the emmiting antenna and the height above ground of the receiving antenna.

Max

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2007, 21:58:43 »
Squelch!

Turn on the Squelch.

A little is good too much and you can lose transmissions from a distance.....
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

aesop081

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2007, 21:59:28 »
Squelch!

Turn on the Squelch.

Wish it were that simple

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2007, 22:00:37 »
Then you do have a SELCAL, it's just called an AES Op in your airframe :D

Max

Geez maybe thats who we need in the Ops Room, a couple of Aes Ops. Gawd knows the Sea pigs don't fly that much anyways, might as well get the air crew doing something :D
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline George Wallace

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Re: HF - Lost art or Lost Cause
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2007, 22:02:43 »
Let's see?  I've talked to Range Control in Dundurn, Saskatchewan from Landry Crossing in Petawawa.  I've talked to Range Control on their "Push" in Ft Benning Georgia from the top of the Lawfield Corridor in Gagetown.  All on HF.  Now that was good "Skip".  Now we are talking all kinds of things.  Harmonics.  Ionosphere.  Atmosphere.  Curvature of the Earth.  Weather conditions...........and the characteristics of Radio Waves and many other things I don't remember from my Math and Physics days.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
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