Author Topic: Dress and Deportment  (Read 39878 times)

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Online FSTO

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #75 on: May 02, 2019, 10:54:57 »
But what's a poor PRes CO to think about all that Dress Manual and Drill and Ceremonial stuff when you see a guard mounted for the CDS in flight suits, CADPAT and NCD with accoutrements?

I wish he would quit doing this.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #76 on: May 02, 2019, 11:25:50 »
I wish he would quit doing this.

It's so.... so... American  ::)
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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #77 on: May 02, 2019, 17:43:24 »
Though it is without a doubt that someone crapped the bed with regard to CAF participation in the 2019 Toronto Nagar Kirtan, it should be noted that this is not the first occasion when Canadian troops paraded at the event.  It was just lower key in the past.

Toronto 2018  (disregard the title, it is the 2018 event, the video was uploaded a year ago)
https://youtu.be/Uc3oXcW_O6Y?t=857
Toronto 2017
https://youtu.be/JWOZKQdOxEo?t=754

I wonder what possessed whoever made the decision to arm the troops and crank it up a notch or two.

Toronto is not the only location where the CF provided a presence.  This years Nagar Kirtan in Calgary is still about a week and a half away so I wonder if this incident will affect the decision making process out here, but there didn't appear to be any problems last year.

Calgary 2018
https://youtu.be/Pj0fkmdkau4?t=121 (Cadets)
https://youtu.be/Pj0fkmdkau4?t=176 (Navy)
https://youtu.be/Pj0fkmdkau4?t=194 (Army)

Though back in 2015 it seemed to be a less martial military presence.
Calgary 2015
https://youtu.be/_iQPFsEwC6A?t=755  This contingent did not appear to have much of a Sikh connection, but maybe there was a reason the FD Amb made an appearance.  https://youtu.be/_iQPFsEwC6A?t=1482  and https://youtu.be/_iQPFsEwC6A?t=1949

While it has been several years since I attended as a spectator, it is always a good event and one should never go away hungry.  Carrying weapons would (IMO) interfere with one of the joys of being there.
https://youtu.be/iH4rXKkbDF0?t=202

Maybe the British Army had the right idea in their participation at this one.
http://www.nationalsikhmuseum.com/news-and-events/derby-vaisakhi-nagar-kirtan-2015-along-with-british-army-148-fd-coy-104-bn-reme-derby
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Online Bzzliteyr

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2019, 10:53:03 »
Though it is without a doubt that someone crapped the bed with regard to CAF participation in the 2019 Toronto Nagar Kirtan, it should be noted that this is not the first occasion when Canadian troops paraded at the event.  It was just lower key in the past.

Toronto 2018  (disregard the title, it is the 2018 event, the video was uploaded a year ago)
https://youtu.be/Uc3oXcW_O6Y?t=857
Toronto 2017
https://youtu.be/JWOZKQdOxEo?t=754

I wonder what possessed whoever made the decision to arm the troops and crank it up a notch or two.

Toronto is not the only location where the CF provided a presence.  This years Nagar Kirtan in Calgary is still about a week and a half away so I wonder if this incident will affect the decision making process out here, but there didn't appear to be any problems last year.

Calgary 2018
https://youtu.be/Pj0fkmdkau4?t=121 (Cadets)
https://youtu.be/Pj0fkmdkau4?t=176 (Navy)
https://youtu.be/Pj0fkmdkau4?t=194 (Army)

Though back in 2015 it seemed to be a less martial military presence.
Calgary 2015
https://youtu.be/_iQPFsEwC6A?t=755  This contingent did not appear to have much of a Sikh connection, but maybe there was a reason the FD Amb made an appearance.  https://youtu.be/_iQPFsEwC6A?t=1482  and https://youtu.be/_iQPFsEwC6A?t=1949

While it has been several years since I attended as a spectator, it is always a good event and one should never go away hungry.  Carrying weapons would (IMO) interfere with one of the joys of being there.
https://youtu.be/iH4rXKkbDF0?t=202

Maybe the British Army had the right idea in their participation at this one.
http://www.nationalsikhmuseum.com/news-and-events/derby-vaisakhi-nagar-kirtan-2015-along-with-british-army-148-fd-coy-104-bn-reme-derby

So, sitting in the G3 shop in Calgary reading this to my G3. We look at each other and go "Hmmm" as there is nothing on our radar for participation in the parade. For the record, no message has been sent out in regards to how to participate... Watch and shoot?

Fd Amb presence is because of the Sikh in that unit I suspect.

I can't access those Youtube links on the DWAN so there's that.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #79 on: May 07, 2019, 11:35:08 »
I wish he would quit doing this.

I think you Navy guys have your own issues though  ;D

https://www.facebook.com/MaritimeForcesAtlantic/videos/353814801933699/

Who is that on the memorial taking the salute with a ball hat on...in DEUs?   ???
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2019, 12:46:46 »
I suspect more like; "Lets look cool, mean, tough and proud" Which is the sort stuff that gets people to join.

Full dress uniforms with all their accoutrements and bling also look "cool, mean, tough and proud."
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #81 on: May 08, 2019, 12:49:36 »
I think you Navy guys have your own issues though  ;D

https://www.facebook.com/MaritimeForcesAtlantic/videos/353814801933699/

Who is that on the memorial taking the salute with a ball hat on...in DEUs?   ???

See what happens when the Chief is on leave?
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #82 on: May 08, 2019, 13:12:08 »
This stuff is getting beyond ridiculous!!    :facepalm:
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Online E.R. Campbell

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2019, 03:58:34 »
It's so.... so... American  ::)


But, of course, this whole business of playing 'Mister Dressup' is decidedly British ...



... and that applies to the admiral in Eye In The Sky's post, too.

This disregard for uniform standards by senior officers seems deeply entrenched in our military culture. It manifests itself in everything from certain generals (most from a certain regiment) wearing their cap badge over the ear, à la the French army, rather than over the eye as prescribed in the regulations, to wearing a ball cap with No 1 order of dress. The message seems to be "I'm an admiral/general and the rules don't apply to me."
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as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2019, 06:20:17 »
I think you Navy guys have your own issues though  ;D

https://www.facebook.com/MaritimeForcesAtlantic/videos/353814801933699/

Who is that on the memorial taking the salute with a ball hat on...in DEUs?   ???
I was there - he was wearing his peak cap during the parade itself. If you look carefully that’s not a black RCN ball cap; it’s a blue veteran association cap that was given to him at the end of the parade (the clip is of him thanking the participating group for it).

Now why they had SIX general salutes at the end of the parade...

Offline Tango2Bravo

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2019, 10:59:44 »
I was there - he was wearing his peak cap during the parade itself. If you look carefully that’s not a black RCN ball cap; it’s a blue veteran association cap that was given to him at the end of the parade (the clip is of him thanking the participating group for it).

Now why they had SIX general salutes at the end of the parade...

Amazing what a little context can give. Folks should be a little less quick to judge what they see on their screens.
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2019, 11:19:28 »
In follow-up, to replace the response I lost that I'd typed up last night.

The cap is an HMCS Kootenay hat - this year is the 50th anniversary of the engine room fire that killed several.  The survivors have been highly recognized in the past few months - two of them recently received wound stripes.  I've seen the scars on LS (Dinger) Bell's arms from where he climbed out of the engine room to escape the fire.  He was almost knocked off the ladder by the man ahead of him, who fell back into the ER and died.  Dinger was the last man out that morning, and that's another scar he carries.

Is it wrong that the Admiral is 'out of dress' on this parade?  I don't think so.  Not in this circumstance, especially since it was after the formal ceremony as described.




Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2019, 11:22:53 »
These men are the last overseas burials that the CAF ever did.  Every member after them who died overseas was brought home to Canada.

They rest in Brookwood, just south-west of London.  I visited them last summer and sent these photos on to the Kootenay survivor group.

Insert disclaimer statement here....

:panzer:

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Re: Dress and Deportment
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2019, 11:43:29 »
NavyShooter,

A thoughtful commemoration.

Thank you for taking the time and making the effort.
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Offline Private_John_Winger

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Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #89 on: July 16, 2019, 09:42:04 »
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/nato-secretary-general-visits-canada-for-trudeau-meeting-base-tour?video_autoplay=true

I saw this photo of the Prime Minister and Secretary General of NATO at Petawawa and was appalled by the state of these troops. Hippie beards in various states of growth, different coloured boots and berets, overweight officers. Compare these soldiers to any company of US Marines or British troops chosen at random and our people look like a small town bowling league out for beer and wings.

If you put these guys into Confederate and Union Army uniforms you'd think they were a bunch of LARPs.

I've been out a couple of decades, so forgive my ignorance, but when did the Canadian Army stop looking like soldiers?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 09:47:23 by Private_John_Winger »
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Offline dangerboy

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #90 on: July 16, 2019, 09:50:56 »
My thoughts are that for an guard for the Prime Minister and the Secretary General of NATO they should not be in combats but should be in Number 1 order of dress, that is why we have this order of dress.
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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #91 on: July 16, 2019, 10:02:08 »
They look like soldiers, as well as one airman to me.

Some troops wear Army Blue berets, some black, and others green. Unless the guard is made up of all the same trade, from the same unit different colour berets is going to happen.

Beards aren't just for hippies anymore... and that officer likely soldiered in Afghanistan, so I'd say he's likely more than "soldierly" enough.


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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #92 on: July 16, 2019, 10:08:15 »
Maybe when they had to stop 'looking' like soldiers and start fighting like soldiers.

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #93 on: July 16, 2019, 10:10:46 »
They look like crap.  Slovenly in fact.  The Officer's dress and deportment is atrocious. 

Regarding beards, since BEARDFORGEN came out, a lot of people are growing beards.  One thing I've noticed is almost nobody does a good job with their beard grooming.  The beard line is supposed to be two fingers above the adam's apple and the cheeks should be clean.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 11:17:46 by Humphrey Bogart »

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #94 on: July 16, 2019, 10:29:03 »
My thoughts are that for an guard for the Prime Minister and the Secretary General of NATO they should not be in combats but should be in Number 1 order of dress, that is why we have this order of dress.

Well it's not like this is as important as sombodies ego-massaging change of command parade.  ::)

Funny, I'm one of the dinosaurs on this site and all I care about there is that if something went boom, I could count on them to know what to do.....not that they look 'purty.
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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #95 on: July 16, 2019, 10:37:09 »
Well it's not like this is as important as sombodies ego-massaging change of command parade.  ::)

Funny, I'm one of the dinosaurs on this site and all I care about there is that if something went boom, I could count on them to know what to do.....not that they look 'purty.

There needs to be a balance or understanding though.  Ones ability to look presentable on a parade square does not detract from ones ability to be a lethal fighting man.  Why cant be professional in both areas ? 

I concur this picture paints a terrible picture.  Why were No1s not made the dress for this ?
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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #96 on: July 16, 2019, 10:41:51 »
Sorry, I did mean to put that with my post.  No way they should be in combats for this....it's a setup to fail from whomever made the call.
But no one's fault on that square.
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Offline Monsoon

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #97 on: July 16, 2019, 11:03:33 »
I concur this picture paints a terrible picture.  Why were No1s not made the dress for this ?
I guess the dress chosen was a concession to the reality that those folks had jobs they were doing before the VIPs arrived, and jobs to return to after they left. It's good to see that the days of spending a week (or more) doing nothing but preparing for low-impact turn-out parades like this are in the past at Pet, at least.

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #98 on: July 16, 2019, 11:13:03 »
Well it's not like this is as important as sombodies ego-massaging change of command parade.  ::)

Funny, I'm one of the dinosaurs on this site and all I care about there is that if something went boom, I could count on them to know what to do.....not that they look 'purty.

Then why have uniforms at all? If it doesn't matter what they look like then why not let the troops dress like a bunch of Congolese mercenaries? Military and police are the armed representatives of the state. That's an incredibly important role in a free society and how they present themselves to the public matters because first impressions matter. When a member of the public sees lumpy, slovenly looking soldiers on parade, or tattooed, lumberjack-beard wearing cops directing traffic it weakens public confidence in those institutions. And those institutions derive their legitimacy from that very same public.

I don't care if the one of those soldiers is a Victoria Cross winner. You wouldn't know it to look at any of them and that's all the public sees. Serious institutions like the UK/US Marines, British Guard Regiments, etc. understand that. We used to understand that in Canada but seem to have forgotten it.
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Online FSTO

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Re: Current Dress and Deportment
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2019, 11:15:48 »
I guess the dress chosen was a concession to the reality that those folks had jobs they were doing before the VIPs arrived, and jobs to return to after they left. It's good to see that the days of spending a week (or more) doing nothing but preparing for low-impact turn-out parades like this are in the past at Pet, at least.

Horseswallop. A couple hours practice the day before. Shine your boots the night before, have a uniform ready or do your own ironing, and get a haircut and trim the beard the night before.

Its not that fricken difficult folks. :facepalm:

Also this seems to be the current CDS MO. There was a guard at Esquimalt and everyone was in combats at his insistence. Bloody embarrassing.