Author Topic: Mess Kits  (Read 156681 times)

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Offline Pusser

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #100 on: April 01, 2011, 15:49:57 »
I think the reason the pictures don't show headdress is because they show how it is normally worn and normally it is strictly an indoor uniform (where we don't normally wear headdress - especially at the dinner table!).  However, I do think it's appropriate to wear headdress to and from the dinner, while outside.  Having said that, if you drive up to the door of the mess in a car or taxi, then I don't see a huge issue.  Admittedly, I'm the only guy I know who takes the bus in mess kit - but it looks so good with the boatcloak!  ;D
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Offline ekpiper

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #101 on: April 01, 2011, 19:07:42 »
Pusser:

Did you get your boat cloak through Gieves?

Offline Pusser

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #102 on: April 02, 2011, 13:23:09 »
Pusser:

Did you get your boat cloak through Gieves?

Alas no.  I couldn't afford the mortgage!  When I called Gieves about 20 years ago, they quoted me in the vicinity of $2000 for one.  The only thing I ended up buying from Gieves was the chain and lion-head frogs.  Even that cost me about $50.  I had my cloak made by a dressmaker in Barrie.  I went in one day on a whim and asked, "can you make me one of these?"  I gave her a picture and a written description.  It turned out beautifully and I'm the belle of the ball (in the winter anyway). ;D  As a garment, cloaks are pretty simple, so having one made by just about anyone shouldn't be too difficult.  The thing to remember is that it needs to be black wool (mine is melton) with a white satin lining.  It has a turndown collar and four buttons.  There is actually a special size button for boat cloaks, but I've never been able to find any, so I use regular size ones.

For the most part, Gieves and Hawkes have gotten out of the uniform business.  They'll still do it, but they're horrifically expensive ("Gieves the Thieves" my Brit friends call them).  The big military outfitter in the UK lately is G.D. Golding.  I don't know if Golding does them or not.  Another good place is Baun and Company Naval Outfitters in Portsmouth; however, when I asked them years ago about a boat cloak, they said they don't sell them.
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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #103 on: April 02, 2011, 13:31:43 »
Just looked in CFP 265. The various graphics with the orders of dress clearly show no headress with mess kit, however, Regimental, Branch, Corps or Element custom would be the norm, IMO.

I have never worn headdress with mess kit.

Nor have I - and I've never seen anywhere that states we're supposed to.

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Offline Sareon

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #104 on: April 03, 2011, 13:17:03 »
I am in Kingston for the summer and I am needing to get my mess kit.

Andrei's here in kingston is expensive, over $800.  I have heard it is possible to get it cheaper elsewhere such as there is a guy in Burlington.  Since we have 10 people on course who need a mess kit we were looking for someone who might be able to offer us a group deal.

Does anyone know of alternative (see: cheaper) tailors in Ontario?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #105 on: April 03, 2011, 13:40:23 »
I am in Kingston for the summer and I am needing to get my mess kit.

Andrei's here in kingston is expensive, over $800.  I have heard it is possible to get it cheaper elsewhere such as there is a guy in Burlington.  Since we have 10 people on course who need a mess kit we were looking for someone who might be able to offer us a group deal.

Does anyone know of alternative (see: cheaper) tailors in Ontario?

When I was at the Armour School, we had a mass deal arranged where it was cheaper and still cost effective to fly a tailor in from Vancouver.  Anyone in the Combat Training Centre as invited to come in on the deal.  The guy came in for the initial fittings and also for the final fittings.  It was some time ago, so I forget how our Mess Kit arrived.  At the same time another person with connections at Boulet sized those who wanted boots and the deal worked out to fifty per cent off. 

So don't just look at tailors in Ontario, you may be surprised to find a cheaper deal outside of the province if you have enough people to get in with you.
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Offline ekpiper

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #106 on: April 04, 2011, 00:27:20 »
Alas no.  I couldn't afford the mortgage!  When I called Gieves about 20 years ago, they quoted me in the vicinity of $2000 for one.  The only thing I ended up buying from Gieves was the chain and lion-head frogs.  Even that cost me about $50.  I had my cloak made by a dressmaker in Barrie.  I went in one day on a whim and asked, "can you make me one of these?"  I gave her a picture and a written description.  It turned out beautifully and I'm the belle of the ball (in the winter anyway). ;D  As a garment, cloaks are pretty simple, so having one made by just about anyone shouldn't be too difficult.  The thing to remember is that it needs to be black wool (mine is melton) with a white satin lining.  It has a turndown collar and four buttons.  There is actually a special size button for boat cloaks, but I've never been able to find any, so I use regular size ones.

For the most part, Gieves and Hawkes have gotten out of the uniform business.  They'll still do it, but they're horrifically expensive ("Gieves the Thieves" my Brit friends call them).  The big military outfitter in the UK lately is G.D. Golding.  I don't know if Golding does them or not.  Another good place is Baun and Company Naval Outfitters in Portsmouth; however, when I asked them years ago about a boat cloak, they said they don't sell them.

Thanks for the advice, Pusser, I wish I had been more knowledgeable when I was in Portsmouth last year, but I guess hat there's always next time!  Gieves is still at 1250 pounds ex. VAT, so still ~$2000.

Nor have I - and I've never seen anywhere that states we're supposed to.

MM

I just found the reference, so here it is straight from the dress regs, Chapter 6, Section 1, Para 3.:

Quote
3. Navy Uniforms

a. Except as noted in sub-paragraph b., navy
personnel shall wear the following
headdress:

(1) ceremonial, mess and service dress –
cap/hat service dress, tuque, Yukon
cap, or turban;

(2) No. 2C (mess shipboard), No.3E base
dress and No. 5D (tropical shipboard)
orders – as above and beret; and

3) operational dress (other than No. 5D)
– beret, turban, or other headdress
suitable for wear on operations.

b. Members of a submarine’s company may
wear the beret with all orders of dress when
deployed away from their home port or
when moving to and from their boat on the
day of departure or return from deployment.

It follows along with other points for different branches of the Army, and also for the Air Force, but the point is that headdress is generally worn with Mess Dress.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 01:47:03 by ekpiper »

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #107 on: April 04, 2011, 08:52:16 »
Quote
shall wear the following
headdress:

(1) ceremonial, mess and service dress –
cap/hat service dress, tuque, Yukon
cap, or turban;
Wow....Mess kit, with your $2000 batman cape and toque. I can see how you'd be the envy of the other bus riders   ;D

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #108 on: April 04, 2011, 09:16:05 »
Yes let my try that one out. My CF green toque and mess kit......common sense right?
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Offline Danjanou

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #109 on: April 04, 2011, 09:21:03 »
Yes let my try that one out. My CF green toque and mess kit......common sense right?

Well a mess dinner in Winterpeg in January............ 8)
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #110 on: April 04, 2011, 09:22:30 »
Well a mess dinner in Winterpeg in January............ 8)

Not even then.
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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #111 on: April 04, 2011, 09:30:21 »
Simply....ewwwwww. 

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Offline Danjanou

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #112 on: April 04, 2011, 09:33:07 »
Mind it would have to be a simply epic toque

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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #113 on: April 04, 2011, 09:51:38 »
It would be a very cold day in Hell before I'd wear a toque with mess kit, you hosers....

I do like the one Doug is wearing though! ;D
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Mess kit questions
« Reply #114 on: April 04, 2011, 10:22:46 »
Wow....Mess kit, with your $2000 batman cape and toque. I can see how you'd be the envy of the other bus riders   ;D

You would not catch me dead wearing a toque with any uniform other than CADPAT or Naval Combat Dress.  I have always believed that the toque, while an excellent piece of operational kit, has no place on any form of dress uniform.

Cloaks are cool. 
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2011, 19:53:23 »
I am in Kingston for the summer and I am needing to get my mess kit.

Andrei's here in kingston is expensive, over $800.  I have heard it is possible to get it cheaper elsewhere such as there is a guy in Burlington.  Since we have 10 people on course who need a mess kit we were looking for someone who might be able to offer us a group deal.

Does anyone know of alternative (see: cheaper) tailors in Ontario?

In all fairness, $800 for a custom-tailored suit of clothes is not that expensive.  Remember that you get what you pay for in life.  A high quality, well-tailored mess kit will last you a long time (just make sure the tailor puts in extra material at the seams for future "expansion" ;D).  Trying to go cheap will cost you in the long run when you have to replace it.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2011, 21:54:40 »
In all fairness, $800 for a custom-tailored suit of clothes is not that expensive.  Remember that you get what you pay for in life.  A high quality, well-tailored mess kit will last you a long time (just make sure the tailor puts in extra material at the seams for future "expansion" ;D).  Trying to go cheap will cost you in the long run when you have to replace it.

I'll echo that $800 isn't bad.  Naval mess kit is usually more than that (around $1000 if I recall, of course it can be more than that.) 
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Offline cdnleaf

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #117 on: April 23, 2011, 08:01:31 »
The Borden CANEX can arrange it - and you can pay on the credit plan if you don't have the 1K or so burning a hole in your pocket.  It's not that far from Toronto either.
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:+1:   Borden Tailor thru the EME Kit Shop w/CANEX payment plan (though I'm not EME.)   :2c: go doeskin, IMO for the difference in price it's worth it.   Mess Kit is +++++ comfortable during those long mess dinners  :cheers:

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2011, 15:39:32 »
The OP is in Kingston; the Canex in Kingston can also arrange a payment credit plan for Mess Kit (I believe that every Canex can do this for Mess Kits).

Go with the Doeskin ... and note for the girls - theirs costs more. Mine was 1200 bucks from Andrei's 6 years ago.
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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #119 on: April 23, 2011, 15:51:26 »
Mine was 1200 bucks from Andrei's 6 years ago.

Yep, I paid $1300 for mine in Ottawa about two years ago but that included a dress shirt as well.  Love the doeskin.  Go for the metallic rank.
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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #120 on: April 23, 2011, 17:58:26 »
Got mine from Andrei's in Frederiction - $900 with the vest and wool tux 7 years ago.

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Offline Tango18A

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #121 on: April 23, 2011, 19:32:38 »
I echo the Doeskin as well. Andrei's in Edmonton has both in the window. The berthea looks like a faded table cloth compared to the doeskin.

Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #122 on: April 23, 2011, 19:54:06 »
Doeskin is the better looking and feeling material. However, if you're a smoker, a hot ash will blow a hole in doeskin faster than you can blink and there's no way to fix it. If something happens to barethea, it can be fixed with invisible stitching (done by hand by a tailor). So if your a rough and tumble kind of person, and a smoker, the cheaper barethea may be the way to go. I've been beating mine up regularly for over ten years, and it's still 'presentable'.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #123 on: April 23, 2011, 20:30:27 »
Doeskin is the better looking and feeling material. However, if you're a smoker, a hot ash will blow a hole in doeskin faster than you can blink and there's no way to fix it. If something happens to barethea, it can be fixed with invisible stitching (done by hand by a tailor). So if your a rough and tumble kind of person, and a smoker, the cheaper barethea may be the way to go. I've been beating mine up regularly for over ten years, and it's still 'presentable'.

Finally; another smoker who is obviously rougher and tumbler than I for my doeskin is still fine after some doozies of Mess Dinners. Lots of extras, but no holes!!  ;)
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Re: Purchasing CF Mess kit in Southern Ontario
« Reply #124 on: April 23, 2011, 21:38:19 »
Quit smoking about 4 years ago, after we last drank together, but it's not worth switching to doeskin and retireing in October ;)
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