Topic: Mess Kits

[murrdawg]

So in short.... Get Signals buttons to replace the studs, get a pleated shirt, get an AF tartan bow tie and thing that goes around the waist, and suspenders?

[aesop081]

get an AF tartan bow tie

The black one is fine. I wear the black one as i think that the tartant bowtie looks retarded.

and thing that goes around the waist,

Yes

and suspenders?

Yes.

[Fishbone Jones]

You've been four years at Kingston, and don't know any of this?

Go see your Adjt or your Chief. Sit down and ask everything you want to know.

I hope your lack of Mess social graces is not indicitive of your education. Listening to advice on the internet, even on this forum, you run the high risk of showing up, at your mess dinner, looking like a circus clown. The two references above are your only safe bet as to what you should wear.

[murrdawg]

Recceguy, we do learn mess etiquette, but not about what is what in regards to the mess kit itself.

[Fishbone Jones]

Those same two will also be able to tell you how, and what, to wear for mess kit.

[murrdawg]

Etiquette is listed in books.... I have yet to see where it says anywhere as to what kind of tie you are supposed to wear, what kind of shirt, anything about the studs, so on and so forth. So unless you can prove to me anywhere in any military docs it says, then I don't believe you have any kind of point to prove. I am merely seeking out answers on this kind of thing from other people's experiences and what not because of the fact it isn't in any documentation. I'm sorry that you think the highest quality from RMC, but living it in the last 4 years, there's a lot to be desired.

[Fishbone Jones]

OK. I'll try make this simple. Quite talking about etiquette.

Go see your Adjt, or your CWO, ask them what is expected of you for wearing Mess kit. Those two are the ones that will know what is expected of your particular unit when wearing the same.

They will telll you if you need something in tartan, something in silk, what type of shirt that is expected, etc. Following their guidance will ensure you are properly dressed for the occasion, as they are the ones responsible for that corporate knowledge.

[211RadOp]

Etiquette is listed in books.... I have yet to see where it says anywhere as to what kind of tie you are supposed to wear, what kind of shirt, anything about the studs, so on and so forth. So unless you can prove to me anywhere in any military docs it says, then I don't believe you have any kind of point to prove.

Easy, go to the C&E Branch Website (if I was at work I would post the link).  There, in Branch Orders, is what is required for the Mess Kit.

[murrdawg]

Easy, go to the C&E Branch Website (if I was at work I would post the link).  There, in Branch Orders, is what is required for the Mess Kit.

When you get a chance, would you mind?

[211RadOp]

When you get a chance, would you mind?

I am on pre-deployment leave for the next two weeks, and will not be at the office for a while.  DIN search should pull it up, or go to the CFJSR DIN site and follow the links.

[murrdawg]

To access the DIN, I need a DWAN computer right?

[NFLD Sapper]

To access the DIN, I need a DWAN computer right?

 

[rifleman]

There doesn't need to be such an attack on the guy, there are people with decades of service that don't know the dress regs. For instance a black tie is the only authorized tie. Look at the descriptions in annex E for air force mess kit. Being air force you can wear the tartan or branch approved cummerbund.

Even the shirt can be constrained to flat front, not pleated depending on your regiment.

[Fishbone Jones]

There doesn't need to be such an attack on the guy, there are people with decades of service that don't know the dress regs. For instance a black tie is the only authorized tie. Look at the descriptions in annex E for air force mess kit. Being air force you can wear the tartan or branch approved cummerbund.

Even the shirt can be constrained to flat front, not pleated depending on your regiment.

Hence the reason I told him to check with his Adjt or Chief

[RubberTree]

5. Metal clips or full wrap around bowtie?

Proper officers hand tie their bowties

A word of caution to all following this advice...I've looked in all the "regular" suit shops (tiptop, moores...) and have had no luck finding a non clip on bowtie. I am sure they are available, but not on a "day before the mess dinner night" type of thing. If you are going to do it right and find a silk hand tie bowtie, start looking early and spare yourself the tank of gas driving around an entire city.

[Fishbone Jones]

A word of caution to all following this advice...I've looked in all the "regular" suit shops (tiptop, moores...) and have had no luck finding a non clip on bowtie. I am sure they are available, but not on a "day before the mess dinner night" type of thing. If you are going to do it right and find a silk hand tie bowtie, start looking early and spare yourself the tank of gas driving around an entire city.

You'll also not want to try learning how to tie it an hour before cocktails.

[NFLD Sapper]

 

[NFLD Sapper]

A word of caution to all following this advice...I've looked in all the "regular" suit shops (tiptop, moores...) and have had no luck finding a non clip on bowtie. I am sure they are available, but not on a "day before the mess dinner night" type of thing. If you are going to do it right and find a silk hand tie bowtie, start looking early and spare yourself the tank of gas driving around an entire city.

I'ved used this type of bow tie when I have to wear mess kit......and it is found in most suit shops.....

[Fishbone Jones]

Oh, the instructions seem simple enough, but go ahead and try it

[NFLD Sapper]

Oh, the instructions seem simple enough, but go ahead and try it

Oh I know recce.... hence why I go with the second one 

[murrdawg]

So I went into the RMC Canex today and got all my answers, every single one. I'll post them here so if someone in a similar situation that I was in can read this.

For General Air Force

- Tartan cummerbun
- Wrap around bowtie that adjusts
- White shirt with black studs and has small pleats
- Suspenders
- Air force pins to replace the studs and cufflinks

As I was told, sometimes the pins and cufflinks vary depending on the unit you go to, but for the basic mess kit, there are element pins.

Also, depending on the unit, they may have their own tartan cummerbun..... But the tartan cummerbun is the basic basic standard.

Thanks to everyone who helped out!

[Pusser]

You'll also not want to try learning how to tie it an hour before cocktails.

Actually, I would argue that an hour AFTER cocktails is not the best time to learn to tie a bowtie!

It's worth noting though that a bowtie is the same knot that you use to tie your shoes.  Perhaps that's why some folks' ties are velcroed!

[Beadwindow 7]

So I went into the RMC Canex today and got all my answers, every single one. I'll post them here so if someone in a similar situation that I was in can read this.

For General Air Force

- Tartan cummerbun
- Wrap around bowtie that adjusts
- White shirt with black studs and has small pleats
- Suspenders
- Air force pins to replace the studs and cufflinks

As I was told, sometimes the pins and cufflinks vary depending on the unit you go to, but for the basic mess kit, there are element pins.

Also, depending on the unit, they may have their own tartan cummerbun..... But the tartan cummerbun is the basic basic standard.

WRT cummerbund, from the C&E Branch Dress instruction:

BRANCH CUMMERBUND

5.17   The midnight blue cummerbund using the Branch sealed colour will be worn with the midnight blue mess kit by all Air Force personnel regardless of ranks.  The black silk cummerbund will be worn by all ranks with the navy and army white mess dress except as detailed below. The cummerbund is available at personal expense through the C&E Museum Mercury kit shop. Cummerbund shall be worn with the pleated opening facing upwards.

[N. McKay]

A little bit of advice that will help you when you go shopping:

- White shirt with black studs and has small pleats

Spend the money to get one made of 100% cotton, not a cotton/poly blend.  Or, if you must get a blend, get one with as little polyester as you can.  There is a real and noticeable difference in comfort.  (A 100% polyester shirt is kind of like dressing in Saran Wrap.)

- Air force pins to replace the studs

When you go to the kit shop or wherever, what you're looking for are shirt studs.  They probably come in a set of four or so.  If they're not too expensive, consider buying two sets so you'll be able to carry a spare.  Depending on how well they're made they can sometimes break, and of course such breakage will only be discovered at the last minute...

You can wear plain gold ones or ones with an approved branch or regimental pattern.  Unless you're in the Air Operations Branch, the ones you're probably picturing when you say "air force" are probably not correct for your branch.

Plain ones have the advantage of never turning upside down, as ones with a badge or crest can do.

[Old Navy]

You'll also not want to try learning how to tie it an hour before cocktails.

There is a great video on U Tube to teach tying a bow tie.  I do a quick review before a mess dinner.