Author Topic: Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]  (Read 111250 times)

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Offline Sea King Tech

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2009, 08:05:40 »
Thanks for your input everybody.  I appreciate your varying points of view.  I tend to have a softer hand when my people's kids are sick.  For me specifically, my boss tells me that I will have a blank, signed leave pass in my UER for when my kids is sick and I am stuck.

I am OK with this, is this the standard for others out there?  I aggree that if mom/dad is a slacker at work then the child should not be punished.

Offline CountDC

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2009, 08:51:17 »
good post Vern - with you all the way.

From my experience a crappy worker usually means a crappy boss.  A good boss deals with the sit properly and either the crappy worker straightens out or leaves - via AR for failing C&P.

I have had this sit for both myself and the people working for me - a day or two is covered bucksheet, anything longer will require leave.  Most supervisors I know of will work this way although I did have one that insisted on leave passes for any time away.  Mind you, he also tried the FCP routine on me when my wife was hospitalized and I requested annual leave. Took the chief to get it through to him that the FCP was not for the this. 
“non-commissioned officer (NCO)” means a member holding the rank of sergeant or corporal.

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Offline Tewkster

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2009, 09:35:17 »
If my subordinates have a sick child or even spouse at home, I have no problems letting them take a sick day to take care of that family member.  My policy is not to abuse it and everyone is happy.  I agree that anything more than 2 days would require annual or compassionate leave.

Offline X-mo-1979

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2009, 11:19:55 »
Good luck having a charge stick to the "lazy worker" who gives you the old "frig you" when you attempt to dole out your double standard to him when his kid's sick and he stays home ... you've already set the precedent by allowing others to ~ that will be the precedent that sticks. As it should.

Like his sick kid has anything to do with or any say over how his dad/mom performs at work. If you worked for me and you were pulling this BS, it wouldn't be for long. Sits like this are exactly the reason that Units are supposed to have policies in place, equally applied - that's what standards are for.

Guy's a poor worker? We have other standards applicable in that situation and actual approved methods of dealing with and correcting those problems - which would be your job as the supervisor to ensure happens.

I love guys like you that hold grudges. Grudges are good in some circumstances, not in others. "Hammer them year-round with crap like this" then hammer them on their PERs too ... then wonder why they have no desire to perform for you. I just give mine their extras - and it's done with; happens again? Then we have IC, RW, C&P to go through in hopes of correcting that poor performance (or whatever sit). That's my job - to correct poor performance -- it sure isn't to frig my troops (even the poor performers) over and over again every which way I can to keep the other ones performing because they don't want to be "that guy". Correct "that guy" properly and have them all performing ~ I was quite sure that that was the actual goal.

And speaking of people putting stupid stuff in their profiles --- nice one.  ::)

I have had but one issue yet.He was also sent packing home from deployment.Why the heck would I bend over backwards for someone who only wants to sit around,play the system,and take as much time off as he can.Yes I do hold grudges,however I don't hold other peoples grudges...I.E "hey that soldier is a piece of work"I make my own assessment on people.Everyone gets a fresh start.

Some people you can't reach.you can have them on extras during their whole B.E.It doesn't matter.

Fact is I don't or ever will work for you.And no one has had a issue with the way I have ever treated those below me.

If the same guy is saying he cant do this or do that and backing out of taskings right left and center.There is no way I am doing anything to help him out.He is Fing other troops and destroying morale.I have zero tolerance for lazy self serving troops.

Ever tried to charge someone who is constantly backing out of obligations? Impossible.

Either way your 100% right.And as well I apologize for putting in that about stupid stuff in peoples profile. I should appreciate that someone was on OP____ and got a accommodation for most garbage picked up.

Apologize again. 

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2009, 18:14:04 »

If the same guy is saying he cant do this or do that and backing out of taskings right left and center.There is no way I am doing anything to help him out.He is Fing other troops and destroying morale.I have zero tolerance for lazy self serving troops.

Ever tried to charge someone who is constantly backing out of obligations? Impossible.

Either way your 100% right.And as well I apologize for putting in that about stupid stuff in peoples profile. I should appreciate that someone was on OP____ and got a accommodation for most garbage picked up.

Apologize again.

Constantly?? That's where that old IC, RW and C&P come into play. No need to be constant about it --- just need to do it 3 times.  ;) Then ... he's out the door for being an adminstrative nightmare who has failed to sort out his admin and affairs to an acceptable standard which allows him to perform his duties when and as required. This can occur within a BE - who says and since when have pers have to be kept for their entire BE? Been there - done that.

As I already stated, there's a proper way to do things. If you have a troop who is doing something "constantly"  as you've stated above and you have not yet issued the appropriate level of progressive official admin actions ... you aren't doing your job as a supervisor and the fact that buddy is still "backing out of obligations constantly" is an item that he's being allowed to get away with. There does indeed exist some rules in the CF about keeping your admin and affairs in order so that you can perform your duties as required and obligated to do. Do your job and deal with it properly and officially --- you'd be surprised at the improvement in morale of your other troops actually doing your job will garner and, as an extra bonus, dipshits performance may actually improve ... wow. I too have zero tolerance for people too lazy to do their jobs properly (and officially) ... especially at supervisory rank levels where they're supposedly paid enough and experienced enough to know better.

And, you're correct, perhaps no one who works for you has an issue with how you do business (ie: how you apply your double-standard) except perhaps the guy who's on the other end of your double-standard ... and you are quite fine in continuing it ... you won't lose until the receiver, like I said earlier, gives you the old "frig you" one day when you tell him too bad - it is then that you'll lose the fight officially if you try to punish him for it - your precedent already set with the others will see to that.

As for the 2nd bold bit ... why yes I suppose, buddy just wrote himself up for a Commendation ...  ::) You may not like the fact he got one, but not something that is the member's doing is it? Why begrudge them for it? Put the blame (as you see it) where it more properly lies.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2009, 18:45:37 by ArmyVern »
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Offline mech16

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2009, 13:10:22 »
I have to say that this topic caused me to get a log in and I do have to apologize for the long post it is a topic that I have strong feelings about, both as a supervisor and a parent.

Background
1. SrNCO so I'm a supervisor.
2. My spouse is also a military member. This means obviously neither of us is a stay at home parent.
3. I'm the senior member both in rank and time in (TI for those acronym nuts)
4. We have 3 small kids age 6,3,1

Well I agree that FCP is there for absence from work for duty related reasons I have had way to many supervisors and officers tell me that we have to use it for those other problems like a sick kid etc...  Some people have relatives living in other provinces as their FCP backups.  This is normally done for many reasons, financial cost and knowing someone you trust and have a relationship with will be looking after your kids in an emergency.  This is not always a plan that can be put in place in a morning, this is why the MFRC has programs to help bridge the time between when you have to leave for duty reasons (very short notice) and when the FCP can be fully put in place.  They also have plans for emergencies if you need help, i.e. loss your caregiver unexpectedly and need some time to locate a new one.  I have accessed these programs twice in the last 4 months and even they can take awhile to get into place, possibly a few days depending on the urgency and requirements, the more kids you have the harder it seems to find a perfect/acceptable solution.

If you also look in DAOD's QR&O's and the new leave policy manual you will find ref to CO's can grant up to 2 days sick leave (note it does not specify how many times in a month this can be granted unlike short leave etc..)  but there is no guidance or examples of acceptable practise in guiding this policy. This leads to very wide and different interpretations through out the military.  Some units allow you to call in sick while other insist you go to the UMS / MIR every single time.  There are even units that let you call in if your kids or spouse is sick.

In the mid to late 90's when the policies started changing the unit I was with at the time allowed people to call in, of course we had to police the policy and unsure they were not abusing it.  Most recently units I have been with have made me use annual days for sick kids.  There was even rumors about a CANFORGEN, CANELECTGEN or some form of paper orders on the topic but after years of looking for them no luck so far.

Now to the actual problems.
1. Most major coporations and unions (yes the forbidden word) have policies that allow for family days or call in sick.  Even some military units have it published in RO's how they handle the situation.  Rules and regulations are clearly laid out and in some cases certain flexability is even laid out also.
2. If your kids are sick they can not go to school.  If they get sick at school you have to go pick them up. It is in pretty much all schools rule books.
3. If your kids are sick they can not go to daycare or the babysitters. Most places make you sign papers acknowledging this rule.
4. If your daycare provider / babysitter is sick they normally will not take any kids for that day.
5. Alot of families now are 2 income families so good luck finding someone who is a stay at home spouse that will want to look after sick kids especially if they have their own. They can not afford to be sick anymore than you can.
6. If you have to call in an outside agency, aka a professional caregiver agency, they may or may not be willing to or even able to on short notice  (30min or less) come look after sick kids.  Now add the fact of at least $25 an hour cost for them.  Sick kids 2 days = lots of money about $500 or so in most cases.
7. If you need to take annual days everytime a kids is sick you may end up with none left over for the actual purpose of leave which is to rest and recover and to spend with your family developing and strengthening those bonds so they are in place when you are away for duty reasons.
8. YOU CAN NOT PLAN WHEN YOUR KIDS ARE SICK - unable to plan for every problem and plans made today may not be good when you need to implement them. That neighbor who said they could look after the kids may be on holiday, sick themself, or even started work somewhere else.

So all this to say I believe the only way to solve this is for the system to be clarified, actually get direction from higher (maybe even the CDS) on the policy, to many differences in policy interpretations cause problems with moral and feelings of resentment may build up.  Because lets face it if your buddy across the road in another unit is getting to call in sick and gets sick days to look after his kids and you have to go to the UMS everytime and your unit makes you take annual days to look after your kids you are not going to be very happy.  I have seen SrNCO's who love their job and are hardworkers turn in their release paperwork over this.

The FCP and the MFRC has come along way in helping both the member and the forces to deal with family emergencies but I feel they are more focused on the long term solutions like serious illnesses and deployments, not the short term like the flu or 1-2 days loss of childcare or things like unexpected school closures.

Just to touch on the topic of the "lazy worker" you will not get any better performance out of them if they feel like they are being "hammered" all the time, this leads to administration problems for the supervisor and worse. This is not to say you can not put the carrot in front of them saying that the harder they work for you the harder you will work for them.  Sometimes this may include being creative in creating flexability in a inflexible system.

If you want to even add more fuel onto the discussion. 
1. What do you do when your work says no and you have exhausted all options and not found a babysitter ? Take them to work ?
2. What about medical appointments for the kids ? are they any less important than yours ?

How do I handle the situation now, well it calls for creativity now and sometimes asking for forgiveness after the fact.  I take the brunt of this alot but I will look after my troops and this includes family whenever I can but I expect stuff back from them.  Work hard and play hard.

Offline Papa_Jim

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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2009, 20:35:00 »
@ Simian Turner

Umm.  It is your duty to show up at work.  You kid is sick.  The Family Care Plan exists to ensure your family is taken care of for "Duty" reasons.

That is, make sure you have a plan for when your kids are sick.  I am a single father of 3 boys.  I have a plan which involves several different people.  Yes it is a pain in the butt, but you have a DUTY to do.

I have seen, done, and allowed all manner of things - as the work had to get done including working from home, using leave, bringing kids to work etc.

I am no hardass on this but certainly it is up to you to figure your family out.  The CF didn't issue you the family.

Should you consistently fail to be able to look after your family I would be applying remedial measures to you for your failure to adapt to the needs of service life.
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Re: Kids Sick
« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2009, 20:50:12 »
@ Simian Turner

Umm.  It is your duty to show up at work.  You kid is sick.  The Family Care Plan exists to ensure your family is taken care of for "Duty" reasons.

That is, make sure you have a plan for when your kids are sick.  I am a single father of 3 boys.  I have a plan which involves several different people.  Yes it is a pain in the butt, but you have a DUTY to do.

I have seen, done, and allowed all manner of things - as the work had to get done including working from home, using leave, bringing kids to work etc.

I am no hardass on this but certainly it is up to you to figure your family out.  The CF didn't issue you the family.

Should you consistently fail to be able to look after your family I would be applying remedial measures to you for your failure to adapt to the needs of service life.

Tone down your attitude, here and on the rest of the board. Your points may be valid, but you don't have to be so condecending to get them across.

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Offline Muttenthaler

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Re: THE MILITARY AND YOUR FAMILY RESPONSIBILITIES - UPDATED FOR 2007
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2011, 11:14:18 »
I'm going to forward this doc to some of my "clerk-net". I can't believe you took the time to draft an SOP for doc updating, I admire your work ethic.

As a reminder to all those reading this thread, see your clerks to make sure that your docs are updated. In many cases, the clerks forget, and/or need the practice anyway ;) Just cross your t's and dot your i's and you'll find that policy will work in your favour 9 times out of 10.
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Offline chappyk

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Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #84 on: November 16, 2011, 22:02:29 »
Hey Guys:

I'm in the Navy and I've been landed because of having recently becoming separated and now being a single father.  I have put in  memo for a compassionate land posting for 2 years.  Someone just told me today that if I do not have a family care plan in place and can't sail....that I could be released?  Can anyone comment on this?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 22:06:11 by chappyk »
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #85 on: November 16, 2011, 22:05:53 »
I don't know about being released, but IIRC, every CF member with children must have a family care plan.
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Offline chappyk

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #86 on: November 16, 2011, 22:07:22 »
Hmm, today was the first I've ever heard of it and I've been in for a year.  We have no family here, but I'll have to look into this tomorrow.
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2011, 22:14:06 »
I'll wager your former spouse wasn't in the military.
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Offline chappyk

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #88 on: November 16, 2011, 22:21:23 »
no, why?
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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #89 on: November 16, 2011, 22:27:05 »
That's why you never heard of the family care plan.  Now, you're a single father, you have to have means in place to look after your children in the case of deployment, etc.
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Offline chappyk

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #90 on: November 16, 2011, 22:30:49 »
oh, okay. I'll check it out tomorrow, thanks

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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #91 on: November 16, 2011, 22:34:49 »
See your clerk.
"A good traveler has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving".
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #92 on: November 17, 2011, 11:45:47 »
Keep in mind that your family situation has changed rather suddenly; therefore, your family care plan needs to be updated.  The CF needs to give you time to do that.  Can you be released for not having a family care plan?  In a sense, yes, but it takes a considerable amount of time to do that.  We don't kick you out overnight because of a change of circumstances.  It's only if it becomes a cronic problem that we start looking at that option.

Compassionate postings exist specifically to deal with temporary problems and to give you a chance to resolve them.  The assumption is that you will fix the problem within the period of the posting (i.e. two to three years).  Asking for a compassionate posting is a good first step.  Keep going with that and start on fixing the situation.

Who told you that you could be released for not having a Family Care Plan?  He/she is being alarmist.  It's not that simple.  There are many hoops to jump through before that happens.  It is your Divisional System's job to help you through this.
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Offline chappyk

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Re: Family Issue
« Reply #93 on: November 20, 2011, 21:35:52 »
Thank you Pusser, I feel a bit better and will take steps to ensure my family care plan is updated.  I certainly had no intentions of starting my new career this way.  But my daughter needs to be helped.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2014, 19:46:54 »
Does anyone know if there is some kind of rule regarding the amount of notice a chain of command has to give a soldier in order to have her show up at work at a timing she isn't accustomed to?

For example if a soldier's normal timing for work is 07:30am can the CoC message her the night before and tell her she has to show up the next day at 05:30hrs for some kind of fast ball tasking when the member has children they would need to find last minute care for?

I could have sworn there was a 2 day notice rule for something like this but I can't find a reference for it.
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Offline hotei

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Re: Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2014, 19:50:21 »
Is the individual on call?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2014, 19:58:19 »
Does anyone know if there is some kind of rule regarding the amount of notice a chain of command has to give a soldier in order to have her show up at work at a timing she isn't accustomed to?

For example if a soldier's normal timing for work is 07:30am can the CoC message her the night before and tell her she has to show up the next day at 05:30hrs for some kind of fast ball tasking when the member has children they would need to find last minute care for?

I could have sworn there was a 2 day notice rule for something like this but I can't find a reference for it.


You are joking; right?


They can call you up in the middle of the night and tell you to be into work immediately.  It is called an Alert Recall/Bug Out/Snowball/and a number of other names.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2014, 20:02:30 »
Is the individual on call?

No.



You are joking; right?


They can call you up in the middle of the night and tell you to be into work immediately.  It is called an Alert Recall/Bug Out/Snowball/and a number of other names.

Nope not joking, I think you're wrong too.  I believe there is also a different between a unit bug out and an 8pm phone call saying you have to be at work 2 hours early tomorrow for some last minute tasking that just came up, good luck finding someone to take your kids.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2014, 20:08:49 »
Nope not joking, I think you're wrong too.  I believe there is also a different between a unit bug out and an 8pm phone call saying you have to be at work 2 hours early tomorrow for some last minute tasking that just came up, good luck finding someone to take your kids.

Sorry that you feel this way.  This is the military.  Circumstances can not be predicted all the time and last minute taskings or emergencies do arise.  Someone has to do the work, and if it means calling someone in to do it, it will be done.   People are going "out the door" all the time and support personnel have to ensure that they do so as smoothly as possible.  Your question really does not sound like you understand that circumstances like this happen in the military.

Really sorry that you don't understand this and that your soldier doesn't understand it as well.
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Re: Family Care Plan (FCP) [Merged]
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2014, 20:15:26 »
She must work at my unit. Any change in timings is "Family Care Plan". I'm under the impression Family Care Plan is for emergencies, not activating it and causing financial hardship because someone wants to start a ruck march at 0715 instead of 0700.