Author Topic: Submarine Trades  (Read 41306 times)

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Offline Senor Mono

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Submarine Trades
« on: August 22, 2005, 19:46:30 »
Do sailors in the Canadian Navy have to volunteer/compete for submarine service, or can one be posted to a sub in the normal course of a career?

Offline CallOfDuty

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2005, 19:56:00 »
Hey good question...I was wondering that too!
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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2005, 20:30:39 »
They're forced inside the subs at gun point, towed out to sea and then cast off with 2 maps- one to the AO and one to get home.

Of course it volunteer... you have to pass a pressure test, amongst other things. I failed it...  my ears friggin' near imploded. 
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Offline HFXCrow

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2005, 22:21:05 »
and a limited amount of trades also.......

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Offline sledge

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2005, 00:51:30 »
Hey whiskey would that be a amphibious submarine then? Maps are used on land. Real sailors use charts. ;D

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2005, 09:15:55 »
Submarine service is no longer just volunteer, however, volunteers are accepted.

I was "screened" for sub service two years ago (non-voluntary) and was lucky, my left eardrum ain't in such good shape (thin inner membrane, likely to burst if I did the Wet Escape Pressure Testing.  *UNFIT*

If you're Voluntold to go subs, you have a 2 year tour to complete before you're allowed to get out of the world.  That's two years AFTER The completion of your sub training package, and earn your dolphins.

Now, that said, lots of folks I know love being in 'boats' as the atmosphere is somewhat different than surface ships.  More individual responsibility and such.

NavyShooter

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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2005, 09:46:30 »
Hey whiskey would that be a amphibious submarine then? Maps are used on land. Real sailors use charts. ;D

My God, I've been transformed into a lubber!!!!

I'm curious as to when the policy was put in place to impress people into the subs - is it just for certain trades? I volunteered as a Mar El, I don't ever recall being told that that they could actually post a non-volunteer to the subs. Of course, that was a long time ago and we were all trying to get in for the money, [they paid us next to nothing in those days.]

It was my ears that gave trouble as well- couldn't equalize pressure.
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Offline Senor Mono

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2005, 13:09:20 »
Anyone know if NES OPs are able to serve on subs?

Offline HFXCrow

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2005, 15:58:09 »
NO NESOPS SINCE 1996
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Offline Strike

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2005, 18:51:41 »
I remember when it was first announced that women would be allowed to serve on subs, I was asked by the media what my opinion was.  I told them they were all crazy -- men and women alike.  Who would want to serve in a sub with a rack that is smaller in volume than an issue sleeping bag?  (Not quite that bad, but it might as well be).    ;D ;D ;D

I have enough problems sharing a tent with a bunch of guys for a week.  I can imagine the smell in a sub...gross.
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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2005, 19:21:49 »
I remember when it was first announced that women would be allowed to serve on subs, I was asked by the media what my opinion was.   I told them they were all crazy -- men and women alike.   Who would want to serve in a sub with a rack that is smaller in volume than an issue sleeping bag?   (Not quite that bad, but it might as well be).      ;D ;D ;D

I have enough problems sharing a tent with a bunch of guys for a week.   I can imagine the smell in a sub...gross.

No hot bunking in army or army aviation, eh?

For me, I wanted to go on the Subs for the extra pay for what i foolishly thought was the same amount of work and risk. [don't forget our ships back then were not exactly modern or well protected]. Also, the gov't was planning on acquiring a whole fleet of SSN's at the time, and after i had a tour of the USS Indianapolis [a 680 class], I was hooked. It looked so huge, and had more firepower potential than our whole squadron.  But alas, it was never to happen for moi.   

I remember a Delta on the surface back in 1986- it was a monster of a boat, just as long as our DDE [if not longer] probably 5 or 6 times our tonnage.  We were very close to it, with regular glasses we could clearly see the expressions on the faces of the few crew members topside as the EW guys were snapping as many pics of them and the boat as they could get away with. I wonder if those guys volunteered for the racket they found themsleves in, and whether it was worth it for them. 
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2005, 19:30:03 »
Quote
Also, the gov't was planning on acquiring a whole fleet of SSN's at the time, and after i had a tour of the USS Indianapolis [a 680 class]

Pssssst 688 class...680 was part of the Sturgeon class(long hull) and the 680 was the USS William H Bates. Sowwy had to jump in there.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2005, 19:34:11 by Ex-Dragoon »
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Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2005, 19:37:59 »
Yes, you're right. Thanks.
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Offline whiskey601

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2005, 19:42:37 »
Sowwy had to jump in there.

And whats with this? ^  Into the liquor cabinet again eh?
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Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2005, 19:43:52 »
Best way to say it is that if you trade has enough personnel on Subs & in the training system to qualify, it will be voluntarily for that trade.
If subs are undermanned in a specific trade, then that trade may be voluntold.
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Offline Ex-Dragoon

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2005, 19:51:40 »
And whats with this? ^   Into the liquor cabinet again eh?

Hey! I rememble that remark...I only had one drink tonight    or so....
I will leave your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your carcasses. I will water the land with what flows from you, and the river beds shall be filled with your blood. When I snuff you out I will cover the heavens and all the stars will darken. Ezekiel 32:5-7
Tradition- Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid
Former RCN Sailor now Retired

Offline buckahed

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2005, 23:05:10 »
 Subs became a regular posting in 1988 shortly after the boats had to be tied up for lack of qualified people. Manning was a real mess in the mid-eighties. It actually happened to people that as soon as their boat tied up from a cruise, they were ordered to grab their kit, trot down the jetty to get on the next boat so it could put to sea. I was lucky, it only happened to me once.

Not that I am bitter, but I will never forget the squadron meeting called in late 86 so an admiral and his posse from Ottawa could order us to stop complaining, they had the proof that the average posting to subs was 18 months. There was four of us PO's sitting in a row that all had over 5 years straight time on the boats. I was standing 1 in 5 home port duty watches at the time, we were so short of qualified stokers, so when my career mangler told me later that afternoon that he had no idea when I could expect a posting out of the sub sqadron, I started working up my release letter.

Spring of 88, the fecal matter hit the rotary air impeller, couple of court martials, it went public, the boats got tied up for a while, some brass got shuffled to desk jobs, the navy bought a habour queen from  the brits for training, and subs became non-voluntary.

Offline HFXCrow

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2005, 23:44:31 »
then the Marsaw years....pay freezes....morale at a all time high......the early nineties ruled :blotto:

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Offline InterestedParty

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2005, 00:56:06 »
Sorry guys, just a bit of history for me - Marsaw was the sub commander chap who was - how shall we say - controversial???   ??? I seem to recall other vague details but I'm reluctant to state them out loud in case I'm wrong.


Offline TCBF

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2005, 01:21:49 »
Let me get this straight.  You take a Brit Centurian tank, stretch it out 200 feet, plug up most of the holes, fill it full of junk, then press gang some hillbillies into it at sabre-point, and drive it into the ocean.  Oh yeah, I left out the part where it has lots of batteries and other electrical stuff.  Anyone who has been aound an Austin Mini/MGB/Ferret/Scimitar knows how they do electrics.

 ;D

You submariners got more balls than a ten pound bag of number 9 shot.

Tom
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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2005, 07:52:27 »
All I know about Marsaw (note, I am not in boats) is that he was described as the one person who many people would trust to "Always get back to the surface." 

Despited the contreversy, hunger strike, and publicity, he was apparently respected by some.

NS

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Offline buckahed

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2005, 12:32:07 »

!!!!Warning, middle aged nostalgia!!!!!  not that this will make a lot of sense to most people, but you can blame HFXcrow for getting me started  ::)

You just had to remind me of Deano Marsaw, didn't you? I only knew him as a junior officer. He was well respected...by his seniors. Those of equal or lower rank had a much different opinion of him. I have no doubt that he would always make it back to the surface. The question always was would he bother to bring anybody else back with him.

Full disclosure. I never had a problem with Marsaw. That's because at the time the stokers were insulated by a very senior CERA that nobody in the navy (especially Marsaw) was dumb enough to mess with.

Oh boy, that brings up the memories. Off the top of my head.

 At the time the pay was pretty good for a single guy. P2 stoker with spec pay, sub pay and 9 years sea time increment when I had 11 years in. Not to mention the subsistance allowance and hotel rooms provided in foreign ports because no one was allowed to live on the boats in port really helped with the run ashore budget.

 The reaction when the feminist commission decreed women were allowed to serve everywhere except on subs. What they put in the official report sure wasn't what they said when they toured the boats.

Escape tower training in Gosport and  living in the Crimean war barracks. Do they still send sputs to dolphin for tower training? Does the RN still put Aussies and Canucks together in the "Colonial class" and expect to not have trouble?

Being under RN control for three months where every RN ship in the exercise  breaks down at precisely 1500 every Friday afternoon and we got sent to spend the weekend in some horrible bed and breakfast in some dumpy little British seaport noone had ever heard of. The only items on the breakfast menu, runny beans with bangers, fried tomatoes and fried toast. Unless you were in Scotland, then you could get cold deepfried pizza and deep fried Mars bars leftover from the night before.

English curries when the pubs close and you are sailing the next morning. Spending the next two days wondering which end to point at the head, too weak to kill yourself or the supposed winger that said, "Try it, you'll like it."

Being a training boat and getting orders from the Teacher to be creatively incompetent to give the trainee RN captains good training time. Like we needed encouragement.

Sticky Buns the cook/canteen manager getting permission to store a couple of hundred cases of English hard scrumpy cider in one of the aft trim tanks. Surface transit home, every time we rolled, you could hear the cans exploding. I wonder if they ever managed to get the smell out of Onondaga's aft ends.

Sailing from Halifax in February when it was so cold the harbour steamed up so you couldn't see Dartmouth and heaving to a day later for a swimex  in the Gulf Stream.

Being on watch in the Engine room nursing the diesels when the sea water cooling temps go from 34F to 78F in a half hour.

Watching one of your engine room crew sitting down on one of the cylinder heads of a running V16 supercharged diesel  and knowing that despite the noise, heat and vibration the kid would be sound asleep in 30 seconds.

Tying up next to a nuke boat in Rosy Roads and having a dozen Yank Chuffs and Puffs camped out in our mess for two days trying to drink our bar dry.  Still got the USN ditty bag (real nice white nylon. much better than our red naugahyde issue) and most of the shinies they stuffed it with for thank you presents.

Sailing under a shell shocked Aussie that got press ganged out of his exchange shore billet when we ran short of skippers.

Sailing with 6 homesick Aussie sputs on workups. That was one of Ottawa's better strokes of genius. Two boats on high intensity ops covering for the third in midlife refit, the training system bogged down, barely enough qualified people to go round, and Ottawa offers six training slots every six months to the Australians. You can imagine what kind of training they got.

Coming back from workups and having a quarter of the crew posted off that day.

The night I got yanked off a duty watch and press gangs were sent out to grab everybody still in the dockyard wearing dolphins to get the Oka-no-go to sea for a SAR. Getting turned around after a couple hours because it was a false alarm.

The day a skipper who shall remain nameless lost the bubble completely. One eye glued to the periscope, white knuckled death grip on the handles, shaking with rage and screaming foul obsceneties at the trainee Sea King crew happily dunking their sonar 1500 yards off with no idea where we were. He did have a bit of an excuse though. We had spent the previous half hour starting a snort with both engines running, raised all masts and periscopes, turned on the collision avoidance light and even broached the boat to the surface trying to get their attention. Doing training ops for newbie aircrews and skimmer sonarmen was just so much fun I was a bit disappointed the XO convinced the skipper that chasing after the Sea King to fire flares at them was not a good idea.

The year you could not go to Stad wearing dolphins without that jerk base chief writing you up for something. Trying not to laugh as he dressed me down for not replacing my ID card when I grew a mustache. I had seen the notice from ID office that cards would not be replaced for mustaches, only full beards and I knew the sub squadron cox'n was tossing the writeups in the gash without reading them.

Watching one of those interchangable MND's tour the Obejoyfull wearing a work dress jacket and white turtleneck sweater a few months after skimmer command issued a rather nasty order specifically forbidding submariner's from wearing white turtleneck sweaters.

Doing a "tourist to the bridge" after the mids on a surface transit when the wake glows for a mile back and the Milky way is a solid white bar across the sky.

I loved the life but I'm glad I got out when I did. I was burnt out. They burnt out a lot of people but they don't seem to have learned any lessons from it.

Offline InterestedParty

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2005, 15:46:19 »
Great post Buckahed! - sounds like a combination of Das Boot and the Gulag Archipelago -  :D - post more if you're in the mood,

cheers, mdh

Offline HFXCrow

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2005, 16:45:59 »
a tear rolls down this skimmer pukes face.......

The skimmer navy runs u dry from the constant cycle of SRI's,Weapon Certs,WUPS,Trials,Missile Shoot, Depolyment, de-store, Refit, restore and lets do it all again, with a new Skippper. Add in a couple voluntold TD's.

Courses are a break!!!

....and then your DO gets all crusty, when u try to go ashore after 10 years of the this sh^t.

this EW is almost done.
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Offline TCBF

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Re: Submariners: Volunteers?
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2005, 01:40:22 »
Ask for a posting with us at CMTC - Wainwright is about as 'Shore' as you can get.

 :D

Tom
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")