Author Topic: Avro Arrow RL-206  (Read 65799 times)

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Offline kratz

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2012, 00:10:50 »
Under the current geopolitical world we now live in, is it realistic to draw the comparison and ask could the F-35 program (down to the airframes) suffer a comparative failure?
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Offline Sporadic E

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2012, 22:23:43 »
Absolutely! No development project of any sort is for certain in this day and age. It seems to be more relevant today to chop up a program citing fiscal restraint.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2017, 10:54:05 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Cancelling Avro Arrow a costly nightmare
By Ian Robertson, Special to the Toronto Sun
First posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 04:17 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, April 15, 2017 05:26 PM EDT

For six years, taxpayers dreamed of our military getting what some still believe was a top made-in-Canada fighter plane.

Others consider the cancelled Arrow project a costly nightmare.

A.V. Roe Canada Ltd. developed the delta-wing aircraft at present-day Pearson International Airport.

The Liberal government of Prime Minister Louis St. Laurent gave the green light in 1953 to equip the Royal Canadian Air Force with interceptors capable of challenging invading Soviet bombers.

Five Arrows were ordered in 1955 and the $27-million budget soared to $260 million.

The first one was shown publicly on Oct. 4, 1957. On March 25, 1958, chief pilot Janusz Zurakowski took RL-201 on its inaugural flight.

“The CF-105 Arrow was a technical masterpiece at the forefront of aviation engineering,” the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa notes.

Officials in the capital, however, came to believe the Soviet bomber threat “was diminishing and air defence could be better handled by unmanned Bomarc missiles.”

Theories persist about American power-brokers pressuring the feds.

On “Black Friday” — Feb. 20, 1959 — then-Progressive Conservative prime
minister John Diefenbaker announced the dream’s demise.

Everything was ordered scrapped, including turbo-jet engines designed by a Malton firm but never reportedly fitted onto an Arrow.

More than 14,000 jobs were eliminated, but many of Avro’s soon-recruited aerospace engineers helped the new National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and its U.S. contractors launch astronauts into space.

At the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum, the nose and cockpit of a nearly-completed RL-206 is the largest-known Arrow relic.

Avro folded in 1962, 10 years before Canada retired its imported Bomarcs.

New Canadian- and U.S.-built fighters each cost about the same, or much more, than an Arrow.


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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #78 on: April 16, 2017, 11:03:10 »
Video and Text on the Avro Arrow.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Rare Avro Arrow photos snapped 50 years ago
By Ian Robertson, Special to the Toronto Sun
First posted: Saturday, April 15, 2017 03:52 PM EDT | Updated: Saturday, April 15, 2017 05:23 PM EDT

Ken Gillies handles the 14 film negatives with a reverence befitting their trusted legacy.

His father took the rare photos of Canada’s first CF-105 supersonic jet interceptor — an Avro Arrow — and its team almost 59 years ago.

Two images show RL-201 collapsed after landing gear failed on June 11, 1958, despite pilot Jan Zurakowski’s instruments showing them properly engaged.

With the undercarriage repaired, the plane was flown four months later.

“It was a great plane, well ahead of its time,” Gillies, 54, said.

The Burlington civil engineer and technician doesn’t know how John Gillies got to photograph the damaged Arrow, but other photos indicate he was attending a media event.

His dad, who died in 2002, “never talked much about his work,” Ken Gillies said.

After leaving school in Grade 10, his dad “walked into the Port Colborne newspaper office one day and they needed a sports reporter.”

He learned to handle bulky film cameras and asked questions, his son said.

By the early 1960s, after freelancing, John Gillies became a Globe and Mail photographer, covering sports and other events, including the comings and goings of political figures such as then-prime minister John Diefenbaker in 1963 — the year his Progressive Conservatives were defeated, largely over grounding the Arrow program five years earlier.

Gillies later did media work for former Ontario premier Bill Davis and Queen Elizabeth II’s 1970s royal tour.

Ken Gillies’ son took flying lessons, but “I ran out of money” and never got a pilot’s licence. He also considered selling the negatives in 2015 to cover some expenses but now hopes to provide prints to an aviation museum, “as long as they credit them to dad.”

Carrying on their love of aircraft, he hopes some day to board North America’s only flying Avro Lancaster at the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum in Hamilton. It has one of the scrapped turbo-jet engines developed locally for the Arrows, which reportedly only flew with American engines.

The Second World War bomber was built at the Victory Aircraft plant, which later became Avro Canada’s base. 



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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #79 on: September 08, 2017, 17:29:13 »
A rare piece of history has been recovered: one of the aerodynamic models of the Arrow launched via rocket over Lake Ontario (ignore the misleading headline)

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/avro-arrow-prototype-found-in-lake-ontario/ar-AArtMkZ?li=AAggFp5&OCID=ansmsnnews11

Quote
Avro Arrow prototype found in Lake Ontario
Canadian Press

A new hunt for Avro Arrow models in the depths of Lake Ontario: This time the search will be different© Avro Museum A new hunt for Avro Arrow models in the depths of Lake Ontario: This time the search will be different
TORONTO - Search crews say they have found a test model of the Avro Arrow, an advanced Canadian fighter jet that was controversially scrapped in 1959, on the floor of Lake Ontario.

OEX Recovery Group, which is spearheading the Raise the Arrow expedition, says in a news release Thursday that new sonar imagery confirmed the discovery of an Avro Arrow free-flight model.

The company is promising that photos and video footage of the discovery will be revealed publicly Friday in Toronto.

The mission to find nine models of the Avro Arrow began in late July near Point Petre, Ont., with a submarine scouring the waters of Lake Ontario.

The expedition also is meant to coincide with next year's 60th anniversary of Avro Arrow's first test flight.

The models were first launched from a military base in the 1950s as part of the development of the Avro Arrow, the first and only supersonic interceptor built by the Canadian military to counter potential Soviet bomber attacks in North America's Arctic.

All materials, including completed jets, were ordered to be destroyed when Ottawa abruptly cancelled the Avro Arrow project.

The models discovered the by search team will find new homes at the Canada Aviation and Space Museum in Ottawa and the National Air Force Museum of Canada in Trenton, Ont.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline grappa99

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2017, 05:57:40 »
 I read a theory somewhere that the Arrow was actually being built by Canada as a first strike bomber, for the US. The US couldn't build one because they had made an agreement with the USSR that they would not build a supersonic first strike nuclear bomber.

So they had Canada build one, in the guise of an interceptor

the huge size of the Arrow lends creedence to this, seems more like a bomber than an interceptor?

I also asked one of the engineers who worked at Avro about this, and he said " oh there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it was designed as a bomber"

which also explains the thorough effort to destroy any and all docs and planes

I can't remember why that source said they cancelled...maybe due to ICBM development. wasn't the SR71 being developed at the same time? could it carry bombs, or was it only for surveillance?

interesting thread, I found this page via google, thanks for the info.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #81 on: September 12, 2017, 16:00:56 »
The Arrow is a bomber theory is nonsense on several levels. The most obvious one being the USAF was developing the B-58 "Hustler" supersonic bomber in the same time period, and the Hustler was in service from 1960 to 1970.

There is enough controversy and unanswered questions about the Arrow to go around, but the Arrow was large mostly because it had to be in order to fulfill the mission parameters. The fact that the RCAF was going into untested and uncharted territory with the airframe, the electronics, the engines and the weapons systems explains why the costs were running out of control (and threatening to eat the entire defence budget), so it is amazing the Arrow was even built and performed as well as it did during the test flights.

Let's be thankful and amazed that Canadians were able to pull off that feat of engineering
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Avro Arrow RL-206
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2017, 10:37:03 »
From my reading, the costs started coming under control when they dropped the missile development. By the time they scrapped them, most of the costs were sunk already, even keeping and finishing the prototypes and using them as testbeds would have been a far better idea.