Author Topic: Training To Give Your Life  (Read 15673 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Gramps

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 16,382
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 395
Re: Training To Give Your Life
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2005, 09:32:37 »
I never said that they were the same. Just equally stupid and pointless. By the way, I think that I may have enough brain cells left to understand that one was designed to dispute another. Please do NOTcondescend to me. It gets my back up.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2005, 09:39:44 by Gramps »
An object at rest cannot be stopped.

Offline 48Highlander

  • Banned
  • Veteran
  • *
  • -165
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,400
    • Applied Ballistics
Re: Training To Give Your Life
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2005, 13:15:38 »
I'm not being condescending gramps, although after your last post I'm sorely tempted to start.  I was offering my opinion on why I don't consider Fahrenhype 9/11 to be "another piece of tripe from the other side of the fence".  You're more than welcome to disagree, but you should really try to avoid seing insults where there are none.

Offline jmnavy

  • New Member
  • **
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 32
Re: Training To Give Your Life
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2005, 14:03:09 »
I did bmq with the naval reserves about a year and a half ago, so I'm not combat arms but I thought I'd take a shot at answering this.

All the training you get, the endless step-by-step repetition is done so that when the s*** hits the fan your training will kick in and you'll know what to do without hesitating.  If this was done in a moral vacuum then you could argue that's it's brainwashing, but that's not the case.  There's a huge burden of maturity placed on soldiers before hand to come to terms with the morality of killing and being killed, and there's been an increasing emphasis on this.  One of the big criticisms of the somalia inquiry was the quality of pre-deployment training and the level of leadership, in part because it allowed for an attitude to develope which didn't question orders.

"The reflex to say "yes sir" rather than to question the appropriateness of a command or policy obviously runs against the grain of free and open discussion, but it is ingrained in military discipline and culture.  However, leaders properly exercising command responsibility must recognize and assert not only their right but their duty to advise against improper actions." (Report of the Somalia Comission of Inquiry, Volume 4, The Failures of Senior Leaders) Note that this is the DND report, not Dishonoured Legacy which was the parlimentary report.

I just finished reading Shake Hands With The Devil and there were a few things in there that I think also refute the brainwashed-hardcore-kill-everything-jump-on-a-grenade attitude.  There's the story about the Canadian officer Don MacNeil who was moving refugees from the Mille Collines hotel when he, his troups and the refugees were stopped by militia.  LGen Dallaire reminded MacNeil over the radio that he was allowed to use deadly force but MacNeil instead negotiated his way out of the situation and was decorated for it.

Dallaire also talks several times about how important it is for a leader to have a good sense of humor, and how much less effective he was when he started yelling at everyone when his burden was getting to be too much.  An army general who'd rather tell jokes than yell?  Not what you'd usually picture in the brainwashing scenarios.

This is just my two cents as a naval reserve os who's been putting a lot of thought into remustering to combat arms.

Offline ready to go

  • if it doesn't invlove blood, sweat and tears I want no part in it
  • New Member
  • **
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 43
Re: Training To Give Your Life
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2006, 21:11:12 »
I would have to say that the 'giving your life' part of it refers to the fact that you literally belong to the military unit. When a civilian makes the decision to bear the uniform he or she is giving up civilian life to serve as an instrument in the military. The training is required so that you can aptly perform the duties required of you so you DON'T lose your life.
The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country and do good service for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.

- Sun Tzu