Author Topic: CH-148 Cyclone Progress  (Read 638145 times)

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Offline winnipegoo7

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1025 on: June 28, 2018, 23:13:44 »
What are the advantages to an inflight hot refuel, which I think is what they were doing at the end, compared to putting it onto the deck for a hot refuel?

I assume it is usually done for practice, but some real reasons might be:

The helicopter might not always be able to land on the flight deck. The helicopter could be damaged and unable to safely land. The flight deck could be damaged; there could be objects on the flight deck blocking the deck (rope, sea container, another helo);  the flight deck could be too small for the cyclone if it’s a different class of ship; and the sea state could be too rough for a safe landing.

Also I think they do inflight hot refuels because the pilot might get wet while attempting an inflight cold refuel. 😉

*i included one joke in this post.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2018, 23:18:08 by winnipegoo7 »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1026 on: December 19, 2018, 09:14:05 »
A few pictures from the RCAF FB page of the first CH-148 AirDet, with the RCAF Comd and CWO.

Article Link

There are also some pics on the VDQs FB page as well.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1027 on: December 19, 2018, 17:34:46 »
My only attempts at deck landings were on severely reality-limited simulators with no peripheral vision, resulting in very few successful ones despite fairly mild (so it was claimed) sea states, but...

I've done a lot of hot refuelling on land.

The refueller has move in under the rotor disc to plug the nozzle in and remain there until refuelling is complete. A fire guard is also right up close, in the event of a leak - the nozzle separated from the hose while an AH64 was being refuelled hot several years ago, resulting in fuel being sprayed into at least one of the engine air intakes, almost immediate ignition, and complete loss of the machine but, fortunately, minor injuries.

Kiowa's fuel capacity was only 276 litres. Refuelling still took a while (although I never timed it). Larger helicopters take longer, obviously.

Trying to hot-refuel a helicopter on a pitching deck strikes me as a tragedy waiting to happen - rotors turning, major source of potential ignition in the event of a leak, personnel moving in close proximity and under the rotor disc, a large fire extinguisher that could roll or tumble, and the likely damage to the ship in the event of a catastrophic fire.

Picking up a flexible hose from a stable hover and then moving off to one side - and right over the world's biggest fire extinguisher - until refuelling is complete seems to be far quicker, simpler, and safer.

Operating over land was far more comfortable for so many reasons.

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1028 on: December 19, 2018, 19:14:02 »
Trying to hot-refuel a helicopter on a pitching deck strikes me as a tragedy waiting to happen - rotors turning, major source of potential ignition in the event of a leak, personnel moving in close proximity and under the rotor disc, a large fire extinguisher that could roll or tumble, and the likely damage to the ship in the event of a catastrophic fire.

"Pip pip pip pip... no smoking throughout ship, fuelling JP-5..."

... so how was it in the '90s on some ship I can't remember someone tossed their still lit butt off the starboard side (where no one could see them) and it landed neqxt to the fuelling hatch.

The feeling of pulling yourself out the door even though you hooked your foot around the troop seat when trying to connect the pressure fueling nozzle for  HIFR was "special."

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1029 on: December 19, 2018, 19:49:57 »
My only attempts at deck landings were on severely reality-limited simulators with no peripheral vision, resulting in very few successful ones despite fairly mild (so it was claimed) sea states, but...

I've done a lot of hot refuelling on land.

The refueller has move in under the rotor disc to plug the nozzle in and remain there until refuelling is complete. A fire guard is also right up close, in the event of a leak - the nozzle separated from the hose while an AH64 was being refuelled hot several years ago, resulting in fuel being sprayed into at least one of the engine air intakes, almost immediate ignition, and complete loss of the machine but, fortunately, minor injuries.

Kiowa's fuel capacity was only 276 litres. Refuelling still took a while (although I never timed it). Larger helicopters take longer, obviously.

Trying to hot-refuel a helicopter on a pitching deck strikes me as a tragedy waiting to happen - rotors turning, major source of potential ignition in the event of a leak, personnel moving in close proximity and under the rotor disc, a large fire extinguisher that could roll or tumble, and the likely damage to the ship in the event of a catastrophic fire.

Picking up a flexible hose from a stable hover and then moving off to one side - and right over the world's biggest fire extinguisher - until refuelling is complete seems to be far quicker, simpler, and safer.

Operating over land was far more comfortable for so many reasons.

There is no loose, large fire extinguisher for hot fuels on our ships. We have fire fighting teams closed up and lots of fitted systems.

It is a routine event, with obviously catastrophic implications if someone does it wrong. That said, I have been in helicopters for literally 100s of hot fuels over the years, with nary an incident.

HIFRs, on the other hand, are nearly always a high drama affair...

Offline Loachman

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1030 on: December 19, 2018, 21:39:19 »
Roger. Thanks for the correction.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1031 on: January 19, 2019, 22:26:45 »
RCAF Video - Crew of first cyclone deployment is coming home

BZ and welcome home
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Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1032 on: January 20, 2019, 06:31:37 »
There was a five ship loose form for the departure of HMCS Toronto yesterday.

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1033 on: January 20, 2019, 16:40:50 »
https://www.facebook.com/MaritimeForcesAtlantic/videos/797685777264903/    Departure Ceremony HMCS Toronto

Around the 16:26 mark. Looks like 5 escorting the ship's helo.

My Grandson is deployed on the ship.
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Offline cf100mk5

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1034 on: January 20, 2019, 19:40:05 »
Video of Cyclone 148823 aboard HMCS Ville de Quebec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS8pSF-9zOw

Offline Rifleman62

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1035 on: January 21, 2019, 19:32:44 »
https://globalnews.ca/news/4866978/new-military-helicopters-join-hmcs-toronto-as-it-departs-on-six-month-tour/

New military helicopters join HMCS Toronto as it departs on six-month tour

Video at link. Approx 01:20 mark. Just a few seconds.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1036 on: January 24, 2019, 20:07:46 »
Is it true that there is a Cyclone det on Asterix?
 
"MS Asterix, HMCS Montréal and HMCS Ville de Québec are currently the only naval vessels assigned with the Cyclone. The remaining Halifax-class frigates will receive the Cyclone once the Sea Kings are officially retired at the end of 2018."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_CH-148_Cyclone
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1037 on: January 24, 2019, 23:04:06 »
https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/for-crew-of-mv-asterix-return-home-means-a-chance-to-refuel-1.23546336

From Dec last year.  She departed Halifax in April 2018, well before the VDQ and the VDQ was the first Cyclone Det to sail.  Neither the Asterix or CAL had an AirDet for their Pacific deployment to OP PROJECTION.
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1038 on: January 25, 2019, 01:04:55 »
Is it true that there is a Cyclone det on Asterix?
 
"MS Asterix, HMCS Montréal and HMCS Ville de Québec are currently the only naval vessels assigned with the Cyclone. The remaining Halifax-class frigates will receive the Cyclone once the Sea Kings are officially retired at the end of 2018."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_CH-148_Cyclone

No. It is not true. She is not even certified yet for Cyclone.

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1039 on: January 25, 2019, 06:53:19 »
No. It is not true. She is not even certified yet for Cyclone.

As she went past the Cyclone Combined Test Force in West Palm Beach last year they conducted T&E.  Possibly that is where the misunderstanding is comng from?

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1040 on: January 25, 2019, 09:04:19 »
That could be. There has been some trial work done on Asterix, but is not yet finished.

I know that, in certain quarters, there is a strong desire to see a Det on Asterix. At this point, we are still working out the kinks in frigate deployments.

Offline Spencer100

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1041 on: February 19, 2019, 21:03:03 »
It's being reported that a Cyclone has had a "hard" landing on the Asterix near Hawaii. No injuries.  I can not link the report from the National Post

Offline Baden Guy

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1042 on: February 20, 2019, 15:06:55 »
From: Can Force Twitter

1/4
On February 18, 2019, the CH-148 Cyclone helicopter, currently deployed on Operation PROJECTION, experienced a hard landing on board Naval Replenishment Unit (NRU) ASTERIX West of Kauai, Hawaii.
2/4
No serious injuries were reported to @CanadianForces or civilian personnel during the incident. The damages to the Cyclone are still being assessed, no damages were reported to NRU ASTERIX, and an investigation has been initiated to determine the cause of the hard landing.
3/4
We’d like to thank our deployed personnel and the civilian staff of the ASTERIX for their professionalism and hard work during this incident.
4/4
The Cyclone and NRU ASTERIX are operating with HMCS Regina in the Asia Pacific Region on #OpPROJECTION.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1043 on: February 25, 2019, 19:27:04 »
They are headed to Guam and the MRP was being worked up, the last I heard late last week.  This one is more than a 'tire change'.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2019, 19:29:59 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1044 on: February 25, 2019, 19:48:44 »
They are headed to Guam and the MRP was being worked up, the last I heard late last week.  This one is more than a 'tire change'.

Not a whole lot of freeboard if that undercarriage compresses too much!

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Offline CBH99

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1045 on: February 26, 2019, 02:42:53 »
Good thing we bought a few extra airframes, for those inevitable occurrences!!   :D
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1046 on: February 26, 2019, 06:45:58 »
It is not nice to make people gag on their morning coffees, CBH99.





But ... it made my morning.  ;D

Offline Baz

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1047 on: March 04, 2019, 10:36:53 »
Saw an update on Facebook by an air type embarked on Asterix that they got the tail put back together and were spinning the head.

Offline LoboCanada

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1048 on: March 06, 2019, 09:02:47 »
Sikorsky announces retrofit and new-build enhancements for S-92 helo

Full Article at link:
https://www.janes.com/article/87033/sikorsky-announces-retrofit-and-new-build-enhancements-for-s-92-helo

Quote
Sikorsky has unveiled upgraded versions of its S-92 helicopter that have been developed for a number of roles, including search and rescue (SAR).

The announcement was made at the HAI HELI-EXPO event in Atlanta, Georgia, on 5 March. Current S-92 helicopters retrofitted with the enhancements will be designated S-92A+, while those that have them included on the production line will be designated S-92B.

"The two variants will share a nearly identical configuration, with S-92B helicopters also featuring enlarged cabin windows and plans for a common cabin door suitable for offshore and SAR configurations," Sikorsky said in a statement. "These changes to the venerable S-92 helicopter will introduce new technology that is focused on reliability and operating cost reduction, while at the same time delivering increased capability."


Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: CH-148 Cyclone Progress
« Reply #1049 on: March 15, 2019, 23:01:46 »
Cyclone's hard landing happened with civilian at helm

The military hasn’t placed flight restrictions on its Cyclone helicopters, despite not knowing the cause of a hard landing aboard Halifax-based Asterix in the Pacific Ocean last month where the pilot was a civilian.

The CH-148 Cyclone’s main rotor blades hit and damaged the tail of the aircraft while landing on the Asterix during wind-envelope testing on Feb. 18.

The helicopter and supply ship were operating with HMCS Regina on Operation Projection near Hawaii.

There were no serious injuries, said the Department of National Defence spokeswoman. But she wouldn’t say no one was injured.

The test pilot recently retired from the Royal Canadian Air Force with “extensive Sea King and Cyclone flight experience,” and was brought in under an agreement with Transport Canada, said a Department of National Defence spokeswoman.

The pilot took “refresher and currency training at the Cyclone Operational Training Unit and re-qualified on the Cyclone,” said the spokeswoman.

The incident took place during daylight and in relatively calm conditions, military sources told The Ottawa Citizen. The helicopter appeared to suddenly drop about two metres onto the deck.

Larry McWha, a retired helicoper pilot, said a Cyclone’s flight control system doesn’t allow for a co-pilot to intervene quickly.

“In a Sea King if the pilot is doing something that is incorrect or potentially hurtful or could cause an incident, the non-flying pilot could intervene,” said McWha, who flew Sea Kings from 1967 until 1994.

“In a Cyclone, it is not possible for the non-flying pilot to intervene quickly enough to stop something like this from happening,” he said.

McWha compared the Cyclone’s flight control system to two joysticks connected to a game, but when one moves, the other doesn’t.

“So if it’s sitting in the middle in a neutral position, you wouldn’t automatically know where it is,” he said.

The Cyclone also has a unique two-point landing: the first on the main landing gear and the second on the nose gear.

“That is strictly a matter of design features of the Cyclone,” he said.

The damaged Cyclone was taken to Guam with the Asterix and HMCS Regina to have its tail pylon replaced and is now back to full operational capability.

The Sikorsky-built Cyclones are the much-delayed replacements for the Sea King helicopters. The East Coast fleet of Sea Kings went out of service last year after more than a half-century.

Everything happens for a reason.

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