Author Topic: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter  (Read 185565 times)

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Offline Iron 1

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #475 on: April 03, 2019, 20:17:04 »
Single Seats will be 1880XX and two-seaters will be 1881XX.  They essentially keep the last 3 numbers of the Ausie tail numbers (A21-YXX where Y is 0 for single seat and 1 for two-seaters).
Thanks for the prompt reply sir!
Interesting tack they chose, but it makes sense to differentiate these machines from the rest of the fleet as I'm sure there will be variances in maintenance requirements. Perhaps other matters as well.
I'm on the fence as far as this particular initiative; to whit? I have serious reservations with regards to the current government and their actual commitment to improving the situation for guys like yourself who are on the "pointy end of the stick".
I guess that this initiative will (at the least) boost the number of flightworthy airframes available for the short term, improve/increase yearly seat time/flight hours, and perhaps allow for an aspect that may help in the matter of retention of core aircrew such as yourself?
FWIW? They finally seem to be getting the message with regards to the (avoidable; IMO) "attrition" within the RCAF at all levels.

I'm going on the record to say that as a taxpayer in this country (for 30+ years), the utter inept handling of this (replacement A/C) file makes me ill.
We should have a couple of F-35 squadrons up and running by this point in the timeline.

 

Offline dapaterson

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #476 on: April 03, 2019, 21:15:36 »
I'm going on the record to say that as a taxpayer in this country (for 30+ years), the utter inept handling of this (replacement A/C) file makes me ill.
We should have a couple of F-35 squadrons up and running by this point in the timeline.

We should be in the pipeline for a fighter replacement.

Even if we had signed off on a purchase order 5 years ago, we'd still have only a handful of a/c at this point; there's a lot of nations in the line, getting their a/c a few at a time.  Besides, there's much more to acquiring a capability than just getting airframes.  Tooling.  Infra (both physical and IM/IT).  Training.  Simulators (both for pilots and ground crew).  It's a complex process.
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Offline Iron 1

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #477 on: April 07, 2019, 17:52:33 »
We should be in the pipeline for a fighter replacement.

Even if we had signed off on a purchase order 5 years ago, we'd still have only a handful of a/c at this point; there's a lot of nations in the line, getting their a/c a few at a time.  Besides, there's much more to acquiring a capability than just getting airframes.  Tooling.  Infra (both physical and IM/IT).  Training.  Simulators (both for pilots and ground crew).  It's a complex process.
Point taken.
You're correct in all of your statements given above. I lived and worked (PSAC/Heating Plant) in Cold Lake throughout the period where the CF-188 entered service. As such, I saw all of the above as it came on line over the course of IOC for the Hornet units.
What I'm getting at is the fact that we have been involved with this programme from the onset. The fact that we are not at the same level as the RAF or IAF is an exemplar of the mismanagement of the matter by our elected officials, especially when you consider the ever diminishing capabilities of our (now expanding) fleet of obsolescent airframes. The USMC is finding themselves in a similar situation as they too struggle to remain relevant with a fleet of A/B/C/D's (albeit much newer than ours) that is well past its "sell before" date.
Had the political will been there to tackle this issue 15 years ago (as it should have been), we'd be in a far different place than where we currently find ourselves.
It's embarrassing to our nation (particularly to those that are "wearing the uniform") and that is the point I was trying to make.
I have paid hundreds of thousands of both Corporate and Personal tax dollars to Ottawa over the past 35 years and I'm pretty unhappy that this current situation exists.
Hopefully that provides further clarity.


 

Offline CloudCover

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #478 on: April 07, 2019, 18:17:40 »
We should be in the pipeline for a fighter replacement.

Even if we had signed off on a purchase order 5 years ago, we'd still have only a handful of a/c at this point; there's a lot of nations in the line, getting their a/c a few at a time.  Besides, there's much more to acquiring a capability than just getting airframes.  Tooling.  Infra (both physical and IM/IT).  Training.  Simulators (both for pilots and ground crew).  It's a complex process.

And no org has more expertise at making things more complex than they have to be than DND!! I'm wondering what the cubicle to fighter ratio will be on the purchase (full lifecycle cost per cube). 200 to 1?
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Offline OceanBonfire

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #479 on: January 14, 2020, 17:18:09 »
Quote
Hundred of millions more to keep CF-18s fighting fit

The Canadian Press Published Tuesday, January 14, 2020

The federal government is planning to invest hundreds of millions of dollars more to ensure Canada's aging CF-18s can still fight over the coming decade while the country waits for long-overdue replacement jets.

The extra money follows a warning from the federal auditor general in late 2018 that Canada's fighter jets were at risk of being outmatched by more advanced adversaries due to a lack of combat upgrades since 2008.

Royal Canadian Air Force commander Lt.-Gen. Al Meinzinger estimates the added cost will be around $800 million, which is on top of the $3 billion the government has already set aside to extend the lives of the CF-18s and purchase 18 secondhand fighter jets from Australia.

 In an interview with The Canadian Press, Meinzinger says the additional investment will result in upgrades for the CF-18s' weapons, sensors and defensive systems so the planes can meet the threats of today and tomorrow.

Meinzinger says less than half the fleet will receive the full package of upgrades to ensure Canada has enough combat-capable fighter jets while it transitions to more modern planes starting in 2025.

The transition is expected to last around seven years, if all goes according to plan, with the last CF-18 set for retirement in 2032.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/air-force-to-spend-hundred-of-millions-more-to-keep-cf-18s-fighting-fit-1.4767052

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fighter-jets-millions-dollars-1.5426860
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Offline Czech_pivo

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #481 on: January 14, 2020, 22:03:20 »
And pilots for them?

Mark
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Offline YZT580

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #482 on: January 14, 2020, 23:02:12 »
To put things in perspective, at 100 million a copy, we could have had 38 new hornets or F35s flying in 2025 for the same price with the first ones coming on line within 2 years.    I am guessing that if they start tomorrow (which they won't) the first fully re-built F18 will be returned to the line around about Christmas next year.  What a waste of money

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #483 on: January 19, 2020, 23:47:01 »
And pilots for them?

Mark
Ottawa

There's the rub....

"Adding Australian Hornets won't necessarily solve the manpower problem, the auditors cautioned. "The purchase will not fix the fundamental weaknesses with the fleet: the aircraft’s declining combat capability and the shortage of personnel."

"The Australian F/A-18s will need modifications and upgrades to allow them to fly until 2032. These modifications will bring the F/A-18s to the same level as the CF-18s but will not improve the CF-18’s combat capability. In addition, National Defense still does not have enough technicians to maintain and pilots to fly the aircraft."

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/canadas-air-force-destined-become-old-obsolete-40802
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Online MilEME09

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #484 on: April 09, 2020, 20:24:57 »
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets

For anyone curious here is where 46 other Australian jets went. This man has a bigger fighter force then we do.
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Offline Quirky

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #485 on: April 10, 2020, 13:33:28 »
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/32869/this-man-owns-the-worlds-most-advanced-private-air-force-after-buying-46-f-a-18-hornets

For anyone curious here is where 46 other Australian jets went. This man has a bigger fighter force then we do.

Once the F35s are purchased, I wonder if a similar scenario is in store for our F18s, turn them into a private aggressor sqn. It would be a shame to scatter them across the country and put them on sticks.
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Offline Colin P

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #486 on: April 10, 2020, 14:02:09 »
Just shows you that you can run more than one type and keep them flying when you have proper systems in place to buy parts and have staff to fix them.

Offline Quirky

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #487 on: April 10, 2020, 14:54:15 »
Just shows you that you can run more than one type and keep them flying when you have proper systems in place to buy parts and have staff to fix them.

*When you don’t have Quebec to keep employed. :nod:
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Offline Baden Guy

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #488 on: April 10, 2020, 16:19:31 »
"This will allow Air USA to operate at least three fully outfitted squadrons of the 4th generation fighters at all times,"

Sweet J***, how many fully outfitted squadrons do we have?  :(

Online MilEME09

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #489 on: April 10, 2020, 17:01:51 »
"This will allow Air USA to operate at least three fully outfitted squadrons of the 4th generation fighters at all times,"

Sweet J***, how many fully outfitted squadrons do we have?  :(

Technically two
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #490 on: April 10, 2020, 17:19:21 »
Once the F35s are purchased

I'm glad you have such faith in our procurement system.   ::)
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #491 on: April 10, 2020, 18:53:07 »
Technically two

Four.  401 TFS, 409 TFS, 425 TFS and 433TFS, along with an OT squadron, 410 TF(OT)S.

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #492 on: April 10, 2020, 20:40:11 »
I'm glad you have such faith in our procurement system.   ::)

Agreed. It's a sad state of affairs.
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #493 on: June 11, 2020, 17:46:53 »
The latest from the buyandsell.gc.ca website:

Quote
Commercial air transportation services

The Department of National Defence (DND) requires the supply of commercial air transportation services to transport twelve (12) F/A-18 A/B Hornet aircraft (F/A-18) and up to seven (7) optional F/A-18 aircraft for a total of up to nineteen (19) F/A-18 aircraft, including components and equipment, from Australia to their required delivery point in Canada.

Link
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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #494 on: June 11, 2020, 18:48:36 »
Any one have insight into why its been so long after the announced purchase to this? Why not fly them back via c17? Or fly back under their own power?
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Offline Quirky

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #495 on: June 11, 2020, 19:48:43 »
Any one have insight into why its been so long after the announced purchase to this? Why not fly them back via c17? Or fly back under their own power?

My guess: Cheaper to send our people to disassemble everything for shipment back to Canada. They will all have to be upgraded anyway by (L3?). Also I can’t imagine the logistics that would be required to fly them from Aus to Quebec, that’s a long long way in a tight cockpit. I find it interesting that this contract is by air transport, wouldn’t sea-transport be more efficient as you could, maybe, do one trip/one ship?
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #496 on: June 11, 2020, 20:38:50 »
The first couple were brought back via C-17 but I imagine it is putting a strain in the fleet.  Also, we cannot fly with the Australian software and their seat is different than ours and so is our life support equipment (and it is not entirely compatible).  It would be quite the logistical challenge to complete the mods in Australia to fly them in Canada (with tanker support).

Offline dapaterson

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #497 on: June 11, 2020, 20:49:57 »
A number of the aircraft (seven, as I recall) are being bought for parts, not as operational flying aircraft.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #498 on: June 12, 2020, 00:55:22 »
Any one have insight into why its been so long after the announced purchase to this? Why not fly them back via c17? Or fly back under their own power?

Or, more ignominiously, by cargo ship ...
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Offline Baz

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Re: CF-188 Hornet, Canada's jet fighter
« Reply #499 on: June 12, 2020, 06:17:03 »
Or, more ignominiously, by cargo ship ...

That is a good question... it's not like they've been in a hurry or need to be.