Author Topic: Canadian Special Operations Regiment (CSOR)  (Read 504466 times)

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Offline GO!!!

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Stop it, man.  I'm tearing up with nostalgia... :'(

Ever notice that nothing in the army is similar to the words that descibe it?

para refreshers - not refreshing

work party - not a party

friendly fire - not friendly

and after all of that torture when you are in - everyone seems to get all teary thinking about it ten years later - why?
No leader was ever hated for being too hard, but a great many were for attempting to appear that way.

Offline QV

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Finally.  I am glad to hear about this CSOR start up.  I am trying out for sure.  The only negative I see so far in this initiative is that the unit will be based out of Petawawa.  Its too bad they couldn't set it up at a better posting. 

The reason I remustered from the infantry was that there just wasn't anything going on anymore (bugdet cuts, Bosnia roto 800,000 - pffft).  This is definately a step forward.

I also think that if the conservatives get in, it will only be a good thing for the CF and the CSOR. 

Heres to a step in the right direction! :cheers:

 :skull: 

Offline MCG

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I also think that if the conservatives get in, it will only be a good thing for the CF and the CSOR. 
I'm still concerned by the Conservative defence critic's statement that they might not keep CSOR.  The Trenton parachute battalion is a higher priority for them.

Offline Slim

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I hope that Steven Harper has the good sense to replace the defense critic with someone halfway competent if/when they get into power. The current one has done all kinds of damage just by talking for heaven's sake!

Cheers
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline SHELLDRAKE!!

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 Has anyone in Pet, seen or heard of plans for the new infrastructure being built for CSOR? Any ideas where its going.......maybee the old airstrip?
"Artillerymen believe the world consists of two types of people; other Artillerymen and targets"-unknown

Offline SF2

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The old airstrip you refer to will never be rebuilt.  Its way too small, and there's already too much stuff built there.  I have heard about a "trailer park" being set up down near 427 Sqn.  I assume that's going be the temp. spot while the buildings are constructed.

Pembroke is close enough and already has an embarkation centre.  There's a grass strip at 427 Sqn that they are considering paving.  But I haven't heard anything solid about it.
Don't be scared of Petawawa.  Sure, its a bit out of the way, but the summers are awsome. Nice beaches, probably the best boating in Ontario besides Muskoka.  Winters are a little harsh, but if you're into snowmobiling, you'll be in heaven.

I think CSOR will continue.  Like I said before, there's an almost unstoppable momentum behind it.  I think the CDS will see this through to the death before he lets it get cancelled.  Its his baby after all.

Offline Technoviking

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I'm still concerned by the Conservative defence critic's statement that they might not keep CSOR.  The Trenton parachute battalion is a higher priority for them.
I'm fairly certain that if elected, a Conservative government would keep the CSOR (in principle), rename it "The Canadian Airborne Regiment" and perhaps move it to Trenton.  Just my $0.02 worth.
So, there I was....

Offline QV

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I don't recall exactly but did the Conservatives say they wanted to bring back the CAR or create a new airborne unit?  It was probably said earlier but I think that the idea of the CSOR would be a more suitable choice then just creating an airborne infantry battalion.  But hey, if we can get both that would be good.

 :skull: 

Offline geo

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I'm fairly certain that if elected, a Conservative government would keep the CSOR (in principle), rename it "The Canadian Airborne Regiment" and perhaps move it to Trenton.  Just my $0.02 worth.
Appreceate your thought (wishful thinking) but there is no advantage to giving the CSOR a name like the CAR that would be a lightning rod for everyone that is anti-military. Call it CSOR or CSAS or the Ping Pong Fusiliers and let's get down to business (the name doesn't matter - make your own history).
Chimo!

Offline SF2

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It would be silly to "move" this unit to Trenton.  I don't see why the conservatives are so hell bent on having a unit there.  SO they'll be close to hercs?  Pembroke is quite close for embarkation.  There's no training area there. They've already established an HQ in Pet, they're going to start building, and will be co-located the 427 Special Ops Aviation Sqn.

Offline MCG

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I don't recall exactly but did the Conservatives say they wanted to bring back the CAR or create a new airborne unit? 
They said they would be "creating a new airborne battalion."

Like I said before, there's an almost unstoppable momentum behind it.  I think the CDS will see this through to the death before he lets it get cancelled.  Its his baby after all.
Nothing has enough momentum that a CDS can see it through against the will of Cabinet.

I'm fairly certain that if elected, a Conservative government would keep the CSOR (in principle), rename it "The Canadian Airborne Regiment" and perhaps move it to Trenton. 
I think this is very likely, however in the same action they may also redefine its roll & capabilities such that we would no longer be getting a unit that covers off equivalent functions of both the US Army Rangers and the US Army Special Forces.  Maybe that "Green Beret" function would be given to the JTF, but as of yet the party will not give its opinion/vision of CSOR.

Offline trucker00

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Doesn't the JTF already do what the CSOR is being designed for? If so what will happen with the JTF and there roll, will they strictly be an anti terrorist unit?

Offline SF2

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no....

the easiest way to describe it is think of Blackhawk Down.

Delta is JTF2.
Rangers is CSOR.

Yes, there are many other roles the CSOR will be doing, but in a nutshell, that is the best way to describe it without giving them a 2 hr briefing.

Offline MCG

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Delta is JTF2.
Rangers is CSOR.
The CF presentation fo CSOR to the press has it filling functions of both the US Army Rangers & the US Army Special Forces ("Green Berets").

Offline SF2

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yes, hence my
Quote
Yes, there are many other roles the CSOR will be doing, but in a nutshell, that is the best way to describe it without giving them a 2 hr briefing.

please don't quote me out of context.....

Offline MCG

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please don't quote me out of context.....
As your post was just two up, I don't feel that my addition would see anyone take you out of context.  However, in a few words (not two hours), I added a fair amount of detail for anyone familiar with the function of the US Army Special Forces (or for anyone intrested in doing the research).

Offline SF2

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fair enough, but keep in mind there are many on here who WON'T do the research (hence all the locked, repetetive posts) and those who aren't familiar with US Military units.

Cheers

Offline Cool Breeze

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Doesn't the JTF already do what the CSOR is being designed for? If so what will happen with the JTF and there roll, will they strictly be an anti terrorist unit?

Here is a more detailed answer - I'm not 100% positive on all this so if anyone knows the proper definitions please feel free to make corrections. There are different levels or tiers across the special operations spectrum. A Tier 1 unit is basically a special forces unit capable of performing practically all operations across the spec ops spectrum and usually has a counterterrorism/hostage rescue tasking e.g. 1st SFOD-D, Dev Group, 22nd SAS, SASR, and JTF2. However because of their size they are normally responsible for more surgical missions and are not tasked with larger scale ops even though operators would no doubt have the know how to do so. They are also branded as "world class." A Tier 2 unit is basically a Tier 1 unit without the counterterrorism tasking. Tier 3 is a broader category. These outfits usually provide direct action support to Tier 1 and 2 units and are also responsible for conventional (non-special) operations e.g. US Army Rangers. Keep in mind though that there are a lot of units especially in the US military that have a hostage rescue capability. A lot of units are trained to extract hostages but only Delta and Dev Group are tasked with federal level hostage rescue - just like JTF2. The CSOR once stood up will be responsible for the Non-Combatant Evacuation or NEO tasking. This may have a hostage rescue aspect. Also keep in mind that many people think of counterterrorism as guys in black assault kit fast roping onto rooftops, clearing rooms, and rescuing civilians. This is basically just hostage rescue. I believe that counterterrorism is more broad than that. For example a hostage rescue op can take place anywhere not necessarily in a built up area. So if it takes place in say a camp in a rugged mountain area you most likely won't have guys in black and the assaulters will have to be adept in operating in that kind of terrain. You also have other considerations before the actual rescue such as special reconaissance to gather the intelligence for the op as well as how to actually get in and get out (insertion and extraction) which would be different depending on the environment of the mission. So as you can see counterterrorism involves a lot of skills/capabilities that are found in Tier 2 units. To wrap it up, the JTF2 is a Tier 1 unit and in the end for the most part the CSOR will be able to fill Tier 2 and 3 roles in some respects. If anyone has any other definitions please feel free to correct my mistakes.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 16:41:26 by Kev T »
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Online Good2Golf

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Interestingly, a Tier 1 unit need not be military....CONUS Tier 1 is provided by the FBI HRT which even more interestingly has a SOAU that operates four Bell 412 helicopters...kind of like the Griffon! ;D  Seems like 412's aren't so bad for Dom HR...

Cheers,
Duey 

Offline SF2

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And those who operate the Griffon in that role completely agree with you Duey.

Offline QV

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Any idea what the training course will entail for the Catagory 1 applicants and how long it will be?

Offline signalsguy

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Well you don't get that info for JTF-2, so why would you get it for CSOR?

Offline Recce41

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Just finished the first half of selection  ;D. There It's no damn secet, just get it from the DWAN CANFORGEN 195 Dec
05. It has it all.

 :evil: :tank:
Canadian Decoration,Chief of Defence Staff Commandation.Bold and Swift/Airborne

Offline signalsguy

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The fitness testing portion is out there, its the initial training stuff thats not!

Offline Recce41

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As I stated, the web site has the training outline. The only ones who have to know are the ones that are going there. No non applicants. PSP still does not have the test sheets or the training package.
Canadian Decoration,Chief of Defence Staff Commandation.Bold and Swift/Airborne