Author Topic: All Things HMCS Windsor (merged)  (Read 27229 times)

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Offline yoman

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All Things HMCS Windsor (merged)
« on: October 31, 2005, 21:03:51 »
A fire broke out today on HMCS Windsor off the coast of Halifax.

http://sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/10/31/chicoutimi-051031.html

I wonder how much more controversy this is going to create. I hope nobody got hurt.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2005, 21:34:05 by yoman »
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Offline Slim

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2005, 21:48:50 »
Lets hope it stays small and the media leave it alone.
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

futuresoldier

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2005, 22:02:26 »
You've got that right. I remember right after the Chicoutami caught fire, i'll I heard was "the Canadian Military sucks!" and "why can't we afford good subs like the U.S.?" It caught a whole lot of media attention.

Offline Lost_Warrior

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2005, 22:14:41 »
Quote
You've got that right. I remember right after the Chicoutami caught fire, i'll I heard was "the Canadian Military sucks!" and "why can't we afford good subs like the U.S.?" It caught a whole lot of media attention.

That is exactly what we NEED.   Media attention on the $hitty stuff our government buys.  If enough people complain, b1tch and moan, the government will be pressured into getting us proper kit...

Not the death traps they bought off the UK...
=Non nobis sed patriae=
=Not for ourselves but for our country=

Offline Slim

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 22:20:13 »
That is exactly what we NEED.     Media attention on the $hitty stuff our government buys.   If enough people complain, b1tch and moan, the government will be pressured into getting us proper kit...

Or they could suffer the same fate as the CAR and get sold off. Then Canada loses another military capability...
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline RecceDG

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 22:26:39 »
Just made the National, although the report was pretty basic and short.

DG
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Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! ... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.

Offline Lost_Warrior

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 22:40:18 »
Quote
Or they could suffer the same fate as the CAR and get sold off. Then Canada loses another military capability...

...or they can go they way of the Iltis and get replaced by something bigger and better...  ::)
=Non nobis sed patriae=
=Not for ourselves but for our country=

Offline geo

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 22:55:15 »
Lost Warrior... you thinking for real?.... small ticket item VS big ticket item...

The CDS has a shopping list a mile long, already includes replacements for Destroyers, Frigates and the Supply vessels.... last thing in the world he'll want to hear about is Submarine!....

Chimo!

Offline Lost_Warrior

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2005, 23:00:25 »
So you advocate them "sliipping it under the rug"?

I disagree, but to each his own I guess.
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 23:01:42 »
You've got that right. I remember right after the Chicoutami caught fire, i'll I heard was "the Canadian Military sucks!" and "why can't we afford good subs like the U.S.?" It caught a whole lot of media attention.


I think of this kind of thing as good press, why can't we? And why doesn't the Press "press" the issue until they get an answer?
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Offline DBA

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2005, 00:03:22 »
Without comparisons to the rates and types of small fires on other subs it's hard to tell if this indicates major or systemic defeciencies on the new subs. Equipment does occasionaly fail and the safety systems should be able to both put out the fire without major damage and exhaust any fumes in a timely manner. From the little information available it seems the safety procedures and systems worked and the fire was contained. Until we know the cause and how it relates to comparable rates of similar incidents on other subs I think it's more prudent to take a wait and see approach instead of passing judgement on the equipment.
It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.  By definition, there are already enough people to do that. --  G.H. Hardy

couchcommander

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2005, 00:52:29 »
I would hope that this goes away quickly. If the Liberals think these things are liable to keep causing them troubles (not the crew, pffft, bad press for the government), they are most likely going to quietly mothball them (not decommission, for the time being, just not send them out to sea, then forget to replace their crews when they start to leave, etc.).

I also hope no one was hurt (looks like everyone is ok so far...).

Offline geo

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 08:25:26 »
So you advocate them "sliipping it under the rug"?
I disagree, but to each his own I guess.
LW
that's not what I meant at all..... never said anything about slipping em under anything - they're too big and aren't that easy to hide.

I am thinking and talking in an entirely practical and financialy responsible manner... when the shopping list is soooo long and the cupboard ain't all that well stocked, decisions have to be made.... and buying a new fleet of subs isn't all that high on my list of priorities...
Chimo!

Offline CFN. Orange

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2005, 08:51:31 »
Deffinatley my favourite line in the enitre article

"No sailors were injured and the Windsor remains at sea.

The vessel is the navy's only operational submarine."

When will they get smart and just buy something FIRST hand
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Offline armyguy62

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2005, 09:52:34 »
That is exactly what we NEED.   Media attention on the $hitty stuff our government buys.  If enough people complain, b1tch and moan, the government will be pressured into getting us proper kit...

Frankly I don't think the majority of Canadians care (except those who are serving, have served, hope to serve or know someone in one of those categories). Most Canadians think the Canadian Armed Forces is strictly a "Peacekeeping" force. I have always advocated one approach to making the politicians take the military a little more seriously though... my experience when I was serving was that the vast majority of members voted in their home constituencies rather than in the community where they were posted. I strongly believe that if all serving members were to vote in the constituency of the base where they are posted you would see the politicians sit up and take notice. Very often the base provides the largest single employer in the area, but only the civilians vote locally, the majority of military members voting from BC to Nfld.  Politicians care about one thing and one thing only - VOTES. Maybe it is time that we start making those votes count.

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2005, 11:04:09 »
I'm dreaming of Marine Amphibious Assult ship..... escorted by 4 nuc subs..oh s#*t I thought the Conservatives won the election sorry moment of lost mind  :)
Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge

Offline geo

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2005, 12:41:24 »
3rd.....
call me jaded but,. do you seriously think that the conservatives are going to do any better?....

As it stands right now, the CDS appears to be providing the Gov't with a shopping list of what he needs and in which order we should go about getting it.

If you leave it to politicians to decide & prioritize .... you're going to be one dissapointed dude IMHO
Chimo!

Offline RecceDG

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2005, 13:03:00 »
Not to mention that the new Liberal doctrine "Responsibility to Protect" pretty much opens the floodgates to new military spending....

DG
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Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! ... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.

Offline geo

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2005, 13:08:20 »
Liberals, Conservatives, NDP & Block.... all the same, sigh.... all the same!
Chimo!

Offline buckahed

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2005, 15:48:43 »
Now this is just getting stupid. Reporting an over heated control transformer as a fire?  The boat didn't even surface. This is just idiot PR people paranoid over being accused of a coverup.

As for the people who want us to buy "new, good kit"...    what, like the newest Seawolf class sub in the US navy, the USS Jimmy Carter?

The one that just put back into port to replace electronics shorted out from taking a shower down the conning tower?

http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2005/10/carter-departs-for-new-homeport-twice.html#comments

An accident " similar" to the Chicoutimi, as taking water down the conning tower is  a "common phonomenom" in the USN.

Check out the followup post comments, heck check out the entire blog and links for an idea what  submariners do for a living. It will give you an idea why submariners get hazardous duty pay on top of sea pay.

Offline daniel h.

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2005, 16:33:15 »
That is exactly what we NEED.     Media attention on the $hitty stuff our government buys.   If enough people complain, b1tch and moan, the government will be pressured into getting us proper kit...

Frankly I don't think the majority of Canadians care (except those who are serving, have served, hope to serve or know someone in one of those categories). Most Canadians think the Canadian Armed Forces is strictly a "Peacekeeping" force. I have always advocated one approach to making the politicians take the military a little more seriously though... my experience when I was serving was that the vast majority of members voted in their home constituencies rather than in the community where they were posted. I strongly believe that if all serving members were to vote in the constituency of the base where they are posted you would see the politicians sit up and take notice. Very often the base provides the largest single employer in the area, but only the civilians vote locally, the majority of military members voting from BC to Nfld.   Politicians care about one thing and one thing only - VOTES. Maybe it is time that we start making those votes count.


I don't know about these subs, but is there anything stopping CF members from forming a lobbying group or participating in political action? I know they defend the government but in a democracy can't they participate?

Offline Slim

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2005, 16:42:45 »

I don't know about these subs, but is there anything stopping CF members from forming a lobbying group or participating in political action? I know they defend the government but in a democracy can't they participate?

Don't go there bubba

That's the best way to get rid of the CF that I can think of...Giving people the impression that the military cannot be controlled is NOT a good idea.

Not sure but I believe its also illegal...
"The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Edmond Burke

Offline Monsoon

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2005, 17:48:49 »
Now this is just getting stupid. Reporting an over heated control transformer as a fire?  The boat didn't even surface. This is just idiot PR people paranoid over being accused of a coverup.
Such is the glory of the Significant Incident Report - some hack in a newsroom can start drawing conclusions about a piece of incomplete information he heard about what's happened on a submarine before the Admiral is even aware anything has happened.  It's comical to think that there are people who think PAFOs try to control the media and spin stories; they can barely spin their own headlines.

Offline geo

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2005, 18:09:36 »
makes my head spin.....
Chimo!

Offline daniel h.

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Re: 2nd fire on a Canadian submarine
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2005, 22:03:07 »
Don't go there bubba

That's the best way to get rid of the CF that I can think of...Giving people the impression that the military cannot be controlled is NOT a good idea.

Not sure but I believe its also illegal...

Thanks for the response. That simplifies things.