Author Topic: Profiles and Credibilty  (Read 22004 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RN PRN

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • -60
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 527
Profiles and Credibilty
« on: March 07, 2006, 18:42:25 »
I do not hate Quick Clot it is a tool. A tool that was still being evaluated and was not approved for use. Yes it was I that posted the cautionary because untrained people were grabbing it of the shelf thinking that they coulduse the product.

In the right situation, it will stop bleeding. If used incorrectly it can cause more damage than good.

I know who I am, I know who AM is. We still don't know who you are or from what POV you are comming from.

Reg?
Res?
Combat Arms?
Medic?
retired?
Civi Medic?
Fire?
Wanna Be?

We don't know
I have spent my years under the world famous Physician Dr. Bin There-done-that and am now retired from the medical corps.
I have been to yougo as a combat engineer (CHIMO) and then another as a Critical Care RN at the role 3 MMU at KAF.

Offline JANES

  • Banned
  • Member
  • *
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 133
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2006, 18:45:20 »
Sounds like a personal problems. 

Thats not just the plan, that is the current sit.

It's also funny how attitudes change as things become widely accepted.  "All truth passes through three stages: First it is ridiculed, Second it is violently opposed, Third it is accepted as being self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher, (1788-1860)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 18:51:59 by JANES »

Offline combat_medic

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 2,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,537
  • Mod of burninating
    • Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2006, 18:51:43 »
Janes,

Tread carefully. You are making a lot of offensive remarks to some very experienced soldiers. I would recommend you watch your tone and fill out your profile or you will be introduced to the warning system.

Welcome to army.ca

combat_medic
Staff
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline JANES

  • Banned
  • Member
  • *
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 133
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2006, 19:42:48 »
Janes,

Tread carefully. You are making a lot of offensive remarks to some very experienced soldiers. I would recommend you watch your tone and fill out your profile or you will be introduced to the warning system.

Welcome to army.ca

You know, I dont take kindly to threats.  I simply say things the way I see them.  I also provide a lot of good information that some people must feel threatened by.  I assure you, I don't make anything up and only post facts.  As for my blank profile, I believe it keeps people honest.  It prevents bullying and brown nosing.  Regardless if I'm a 12 year old kid or a trauma surgeon, you can take my posts or leave them.  If you are so inclined, I hope at least they generate interest and discussion and make people go research the topics.  If I challenge people, then it is probably because I have info to the contrary of their statments, regardless of their credentials.  I will say it again, I do not make anything up.  I think it's important for people to be humble, and when people make statements that are out of their relm, I will call them on it.  I dont care if you are a doctor and you've been to Bosnia, that doesn't mean that you are a TCCC expert.  I don't claim to be anything.  For all I care, please consider me the 12 year old child that is a wanna be.  The fact remains that I only post facts and it is quality information if you are so inclined to look past your ego.  If people feel threatened by a blank profile, then that is not my problem.  By turning me off of this forum, you will loose a valuable information asset.  So for now, I will sit back and watch from a distance.  Good bye!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2006, 22:52:23 by JANES »

Offline old medic

  • Medical Forum Moderator
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 27,575
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,725
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2006, 23:28:04 »
You know, I dont take kindly to threats.  I simply say things the way I see them.  ....    Good bye!

Welcome to the warning system.
re-answering vision questions since 2004.

Offline Fishbone Jones

    MSC -7995.

  • When one person makes an accusation, check to be sure he himself is not the guilty one. Sometimes it is those whose case is weak who make the most clamour.
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 285,427
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,692
    • Army.ca
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2006, 00:09:08 »
Quote
The fact remains that I only post facts and it is quality information if you are so inclined to look past your ego.  If people feel threatened by a blank profile, then that is not my problem.  By turning me off of this forum, you will loose a valuable information asset.  So for now, I will sit back and watch from a distance.  Good bye!

See, now here's the problem. I'm a babe in the woods when your talking about this stuff in here. So to see what side I'd lean to, I would look at a person's competence and experience. Here, that's done with a profile. The other way to make me take your side would be to quote your sources and/ or research. You've provided neither. You talk a good talk, but you stumble with your walk.

And speaking of inflated egos........stay away from sharp objects.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Try not to take things personally. What people say about you is a reflection of them, not you.

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

Offline kj_gully

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 3,335
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 387
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2006, 12:15:00 »
Looks to me like you've pissed off one of the best posters in here, a person using this site specifically for what it was designed for, to generate debate, and as an anonymous way of questioning accepted norms. The site will be less if all POV are not welcomed, and everyone should be able to take a little when they dish it. Anonymity is a right often exercised in forums like this, and remember @ least JANES has been honest enough to leave his/hers blank, as opposed to saying he is the CO of 4123 Water Buffalo battalion Armoured fusiliers, which he/she easily could do.

Offline combat_medic

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 2,970
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,537
  • Mod of burninating
    • Seaforth Highlanders of Canada
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2006, 13:11:38 »
If you think Janes is the best poster here, then you really haven't been here very long.

There's nothing wrong with protecting one's anonymity, but to be spouting off about what the CF should and should not be doing operationally, or in training, and not being able to back ANYTHING up, is extremely dangerous. If he is just some punk kid, or even a 50 year old without so much as basic first aid, then yeah, he really has very little clout with which to be talking about medical policies, here or anywhere. Giving advice and opinions on medical topics, in particular, is extremely dangerous if you don't know what you're talking about. Particularly when people come on here and can't tell the difference between those with experience and those without and end up doing a lot of damage.

His POV is welcome, but until he backs it up with credentials, it's pretty worthless. He also lipped off a staff member after already being warned several times. He (and you) were made aware of the forum rules when you signed up. You abide by them, or you're gone. It's that simple.

We're here to defend democracy, people, not practice it.
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck." - Paracowboy

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,552
  • Crewman
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2006, 13:17:55 »
In some circles, the lack of credentials will automatically disqualify you.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 588,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,540
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2006, 14:04:37 »
I agree that JANES has contributed some of the more useful discussion points here. While he is doing an admirable job overcoming his crippling shyness ;)  ......maybe I was concentrating on the substantive content of his posts, rather than judging any attendant degree of ego or self-esteem.

For that reason, I also find listing his current load-station in his profile irrelevant as well. For some discussion points on this site, it's nice to know people's background. Here, with the discussion focused upon evolving protocols for reasonably unchanging A&P problems.....well, the informed content of his posts have persuaded me of his competency to provide insights. I don't believe him to be armyboi or silverbach reincarnate.

Was the warning based upon a complaint from someone whose feelings he had hurt, or was it administered pre-emptively, as prophylaxis? I believe this warning served only to stifle discussion. While I may have been rude once or twice in my military career, or been on the receiving end of someone's ego, no one died.

At the risk of apprearing over-dramatic, I'd hate to think troops may suffer because potentially life-saving discussion was quashed because opinions were expressed without adequate politeness.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 18:42:40 by Journeyman »

Offline kj_gully

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 3,335
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 387
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2006, 17:28:15 »
after reading the technical content of some posts, and it is easy to see  if someone knows what they are talking about. I think, after "duelling" with Janes on a couple threads, that he is VERY qualified in pre hospital medicine. Look around the site, and try to disagree.

Offline old medic

  • Medical Forum Moderator
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 27,575
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,725
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2006, 19:55:23 »
Ref: Credentials

This is nothing new, they are asked for consistently at army.ca on each board. Whenever someone comments
on equipment purchases, vehicles, weapons, etc., they are asked for credentials and their experience or to stay in their
lane.

When one discusses the art of medicine or discusses medical procedures with other medical professionals then one's
experience and credentials are (and should be) examined. 

 
re-answering vision questions since 2004.

Offline Rider Pride

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 29,368
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Easy to draw, hard to spell
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2006, 19:57:57 »
Old Medic, can we remove this JANES content from an otherwise good thread in to a new thread with his name as the title?

The last good post was mine about Quickclot.
"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 588,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,540
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2006, 20:12:57 »
The last good post was mine about Quickclot.

Well, at least we sorted out that ego issue

Offline Rider Pride

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 29,368
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,824
  • Easy to draw, hard to spell
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2006, 20:22:02 »
Ha....

Nowhere do I ever say I am humble.
"Return with your shield, or upon it."

Offline old medic

  • Medical Forum Moderator
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 27,575
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,725
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2006, 22:34:25 »
This thread is split from, and initially contains replies too this message:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,23593.msg347086.html#msg347086

« Last Edit: March 08, 2006, 22:41:18 by old medic »
re-answering vision questions since 2004.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,552
  • Crewman
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2006, 10:00:22 »
I'm sorry, but this is not the place for egos.

As I said in this Topic already, sometimes the lack of credentials will disqualify you from a discussion.  If Janes is someone like me, without any formal Medical Training, who has however taken an interest in Medicine and done a lot of research at the Library, but nothing clinical, and can 'Talk the Talk, but hasn't Walked the Walk", they can be a very dangerous person.  Especially in fields like Medicine, where lives may be on the line, a person may be able to influence someone, who doesn't know their background, into making a fatal error.  The last thing I would want to have happen to me if I were being treated for injuries, is to have a Professional give me treatment on the advice of an adviser who has not produced any credible credentials.  These discussions do involve "Life and Death", and without any credentials, how can we take the source of Janes comments without doubt and skepticism?  Would you accept my input to the discussion of Medical Procedures just as readily?  I would hope not.

Janes to me is a Publication of AFV information.  Not always exact in their facts, but used by most militaries to identify Weapons Systems and Equipment of Foreign Militaries.  To me, Janes logon therefore equates as a person who does a lot of "READING" of Journals, Publications, Open Source materials, etc.  Does Janes have any real experience in the Medical Profession other than that is very questionable.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline muskrat89

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 25,947
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,471
    • Desert Rat
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2006, 10:46:25 »
Quote
At the risk of apprearing over-dramatic, I'd hate to think troops may suffer because potentially life-saving discussion was quashed because opinions were expressed without adequate politeness.

I think if someone is developing medical protocols based on internet discussions, then there are bigger problems at hand than whether a (relatively minor) warning was administered justifiably.

Look, journeyman - I have no dog in this hunt, and the extent of my medical knowledge is "needles are pointy". That being said, I think the posters most slighted are the ones in the profession, perhaps because you are best equipped to sort the wheat from the chaff. That being said, other people read these forums - civilians, retirees, potential recruits, etc.

If there were ongoing discussions "out of your lanes", but regarding subjects of interest - maybe you would see it differently. If someone was handing out detailed legal advice, with no credentials, it wouldn't make you uncomfortable? How about if the poster became obstinate, when the lack of credentials was questioned? The Mods see this much more frequently in the equipment forums. (Usually) young posters that are well-read will often spout technical data that sounds factual, but at the end of the day - is inaccurate.

I think because this medical stuff is much more important than whether the "Bolivian 10.6 mm auto handcannon fires at a rate or 300 rpm or 463 rpm".. that credentials are even more important.

Full profiles are indeed optional here, but that often is at the expense of credibility.
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Offline 2 Cdo

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 13,449
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 866
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2006, 10:49:50 »
Profiles and credibility? Right, I think I will change my profile to show myself as the VCDS and post a couple of thousand posts so that I can now be taken seriously by the "old timers" on this site! ::) A profile can be made to say anything and number of posts does not make you an expert!

Quote
Old Medic, can we remove this JANES content from an otherwise good thread in to a new thread with his name as the title?

Yes, by all means lets remove anything that I don't agree/like! ::) Self importance of some on this site is astounding!
AIRBORNE
2 Cdo 84-88

Offline RecceDG

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 60
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 493
  • Carpe terram inferam!
    • Far North Racing
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2006, 11:42:57 »
If you claim that you are the VCDS, that is easily checked.

Whereas a blank profile cannot be verified.

As far as I'm concerned, a blank profile is an admission of inexperience.

DG
D. Grant

Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! ... Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    is watching the snow...

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 306,340
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 15,723
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2006, 12:29:53 »
Quote,
  Self importance of some on this site is astounding!

As you have just proved.......
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline JANES

  • Banned
  • Member
  • *
  • 0
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 133
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2006, 13:30:57 »
What is easier to prove or disprove; a profile or a post?  What is more important to prove or disprove?  Would you rather research someone or research a topic of interest to you?  Some of you no doubt have nothing better to do than to search for posers.  Myself, I couldn’t be bothered wasting my time, I’d rather search whether their post is accurate or not, and will probably learn something in the process.  Then it is confirmed in my mind that the facts are true or false and I have gained valuable information in the process.  It’s better to learn for yourself than to simply be told something.  I would imagine a post is easier to qualify or disqualify than a profile, and the journey much more enjoyable and noble. 

Any professional who is a “professional” will not take internet dialogue as doctrine.  They will research the topic for themselves.  Any non-medical professional, any reasonable person for that matter seeking information here should not take internet discussion as fact, and should research the topic for themselves.  What if my profile said Dr. Bloggins?  Does that mean that my posts are fact, and that all the Medics can go use fentanyl lollypops (how would they get them)?  No, because they are on the internet.  This is a discussion forum, not a doctrinal writing board.  The topics are meant to generate discussion and instigate research and learning.  These are not official documents or Medical Journals.  If I was writing a medical paper, then I would put my credentials.  There is a big difference.  This is a forum to discuss new idea’s and new concepts.  If I say the sky is green, I would hope that everybody will stick their head out their window and realize that’s not true and come back and say “the sky is not green, it is blue in my world”.

“The process has not been without controversy.  The debate encouraged by this publication began long before the Dispatches made it to print, all pointing to Tactical Medicine remaining a controversial topic.  There are legitimate worries that some people will read this paper and assume that, having read it, they are experienced enough to begin practicing tactical medicine.  That is something we want to discourage.  This publication is an attempt to convey that fact as well as identify new approaches and equipment requirements.”

This is a quote in the Forward of the Dispatches on TCCC written by Cpl Kopp.  I think there are some similarities here. 

If you want credentials read my posts and research the topics.  Research them with the proper authorities.  If you think fentanyl lollypops have no place in the field, then call Capt Butler and ask him his opinion.  He is the expert, not the civilian doctor who doesn’t have a clue about TCCC.  If you can’t find the information, ask for help, ask me for a reference, I given them in the past when asked.  If I have to make footnotes for all my posts, that would take some time, that I don’t have.  I will assure you, and this is as good a profile as you are going to get, that I do have field experience, and as worded before, I have “gotten my hands dirty”. 

My other question is this.  Does a soldier on verbal warning have to wear a big red sign around his neck stating he has been put on a verbal warning so that everyone else knows this?  Does the OC mention it in the O Group?

I thought the dunce cap was taken out of our school system.  I though our society had evolved.



Offline Fishbone Jones

    MSC -7995.

  • When one person makes an accusation, check to be sure he himself is not the guilty one. Sometimes it is those whose case is weak who make the most clamour.
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 285,427
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 18,692
    • Army.ca
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2006, 13:42:26 »

My other question is this.  Does a soldier on verbal warning have to wear a big red sign around his neck stating he has been put on a verbal warning so that everyone else knows this?  Does the OC mention it in the O Group?

I thought the dunce cap was taken out of our school system.  I though our society had evolved.


I could really care less who you are. It's the way we do things around here. Go read the Guidelines for more info. Don't like it? Don't get caught in the Warning System.
Corruption in politics doesn't scare me.
What scares me is how comfortable people are doing nothing about it.

Try not to take things personally. What people say about you is a reflection of them, not you.

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 436,675
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,552
  • Crewman
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2006, 14:13:40 »
Where to start?


What is easier to prove or disprove; a profile or a post?  What is more important to prove or disprove?  Would you rather research someone or research a topic of interest to you?  Some of you no doubt have nothing better to do than to search for posers.
If I am going to research something, perhaps a quote from someone, it would be nice to be able to research that person along with the quote.   
Myself, I couldn’t be bothered wasting my time, I’d rather search whether their post is accurate or not, and will probably learn something in the process.
Arrogance, never made for good research.  A neutral approach and collection of all the facts would seem essential.  Even posers can get facts right at times.   
Then it is confirmed in my mind that the facts are true or false and I have gained valuable information in the process.  It’s better to learn for yourself than to simply be told something.  I would imagine a post is easier to qualify or disqualify than a profile, and the journey much more enjoyable and noble. 
So very true.  Unfortunately, you don't want to make all the facts known.  You don't pose any credentials, so you don't really have credibility.  Like you say, "I couldn't be bothered wasting my time."

Any professional who is a “professional” will not take internet dialogue as doctrine.  They will research the topic for themselves.  Any non-medical professional, any reasonable person for that matter seeking information here should not take internet discussion as fact, and should research the topic for themselves.  What if my profile said Dr. Bloggins?  Does that mean that my posts are fact, and that all the Medics can go use fentanyl lollypops (how would they get them)?  No, because they are on the internet.  This is a discussion forum, not a doctrinal writing board.  The topics are meant to generate discussion and instigate research and learning.  These are not official documents or Medical Journals.  If I was writing a medical paper, then I would put my credentials.  There is a big difference.  This is a forum to discuss new idea’s and new concepts
What if someone slips and works on an opinion expressed by someone posing as a Professional?  I guess that means that we shouldn't consider you a Professional and 'qualified' person, but a somewhat learned outsider.

"There are legitimate worries that some people will read this paper and assume that, having read it, they are experienced enough to begin practicing tactical medicine.  That is something we want to discourage.  This publication is an attempt to convey that fact as well as identify new approaches and equipment requirements.”

....  I think there are some similarities here. 
We agree and that is what we are saying to you.  You, with not credentials, are posting some very serious matters in this forum.  For all we know you could be a Rainman.

If you want credentials read my posts and research the topics.  Research them with the proper authorities.
You could be quoting anyone from a numerous amount of Medical Journals and Libraries. 
.  If you can’t find the information, ask for help, ask me for a reference, I given them in the past when asked.
Again, why would we value your credibility to give references?
  If I have to make footnotes for all my posts, that would take some time, that I don’t have.  I will assure you, and this is as good a profile as you are going to get, that I do have field experience, and as worded before, I have “gotten my hands dirty”. 
We know no such thing. 

If you don't have the time......do we?
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline Steve

  • Mentally hilarious
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • -110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 583
  • No claim for you!
Re: Profiles and Credibilty
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2006, 14:21:26 »
Profiles and credibility? Right, I think I will change my profile to show myself as the VCDS and post a couple of thousand posts so that I can now be taken seriously by the "old timers" on this site! ::) A profile can be made to say anything and number of posts does not make you an expert!

Yes, by all means lets remove anything that I don't agree/like! ::) Self importance of some on this site is astounding!

Completely agree. It is sad that a disturbing amount of people here somehow equate no. of posts with experience or credibility, when one could make the argument that the person with less posts makes far more contributions and intelligent discussion than someone with twice the amount of posts which contain jack all.

What's that proverb ... A fool speaks loudly and a wise man not at all? I probably butchered it but it's along those lines.
I fell off the jungle gym.. and when I woke up, I was in Petawawa..