Author Topic: Cadets Joining the Reserves - Can it be Both?  (Read 91962 times)

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Offline Love793

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2005, 22:54:28 »
Trucker,

I have no problems personally with it.  However as you and I know, some "recruits' forget that they are no longer "big fish" when they come to the unit.  This causes a problem when trying to unteach then reteach.  Fortunately in the Garrison we have enough former "Big Fish" to pull those people aside and remind them in the best "Windsor Area" way of their new roles in life.  Some places are different.

When do you guys start parading again?
The role of Cavalry is to add dash and colour, to a otherwise drab event called war.

Offline Sapper24

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2005, 02:15:29 »
I too feel that there is nothing wrong in doing both, if you have the time to do both and put forth a good effort all the more to ya. As trucker said you can bring bcak the experience to your cadet corps, you can also do that by volunteering with the cadet corps as a reservist and still use your experience if you don't really feel like continuing on with te cadet program.

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2005, 17:08:55 »
I've worked with 5 Cadet Corps over the past 18 Years, of which I still continue to volunteer with Cadets since I joined the RegF in '92.

To my knowledge, there is not any administrative rule preventing Cadets from concurrently being member of the Reserves. Most Corps that I've dealt with encourage Cadets to either stay with the Cadet Program or join the Reserves if that is your wish but not both.

It can become a bit difficult during specific functions. If you are 17 and still in Cadets, you are probably one of the senior ranking Cadets in the Corps. What happens on Remembrance Day when you are a Cadet RSM and expected to be on parade as a Cadet and at the same time your Reserve unit indicates that you are also required to be on parade with them. A conflict will arise that could have been avoided.

If you have your heart set on joining the Reserves, do so and let them know that you wish to assist the Cadet Corps with training.

As for being a Cadet and being in the Reg Force, I wouldn't even go there. Officially as a RegF member, you should be putting in a request through your COC to volunteer with a Cadet Corps. Besides, your first couple of years in the RegF you will be part of the Training System and volunteering time with a Corps is not encouraged. If you fail a course and are volunteering with Cadets, it can come back and hurt you later.


« Last Edit: January 03, 2005, 17:11:51 by Navalsnpr »
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Offline condor888000

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2005, 17:22:51 »
Quote from: CATO 13-07=topic=24238.msg144014#msg144014 date=1104790135
STATUS - CADET / MEMBER OF THE PRIMARY RESERVE

PURPOSE

1. The purpose of this order is to clarify the status of cadet versus reservist. It supersedes
Canadian Forces Cadet Policies and Procedures, Article 355, dated 01 August 1988.

GENERAL

2. The provisions for eligibility for membership in a cadet unit are outlined in Chapter 4 of the Queen's Regulations and Orders
(Cadets) (QR(Cadets)). The provisions for enrolment in the Primary Reserve are outlined in CFAO 49-10 and 49-11. Membership in a cadet unit does not legally bar enrolment in the Primary Reserve.

3. Membership in Cadets or the Primary Reserve should be re-evaluated, however, if the cadet/reservist is unable to deal with the increased responsibility. The cadet unit CO shall determine whether continued involvement as a cadet is appropriate.

4. A person may not be a cadet and a member of the CIC concurrently.

CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE

5. A reservist is subject to the Code of Service Discipline under sub-section 55(1)(c)(viii) of the National Defence Act when â Å“in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in any defence establishment or work for the Defenceâ ?. Hence, a cadet who is also a reservist could be charged with a service offence and could be required to appear before a service tribunal.

OPI: D Cdts 5
Date: May 98
Amendment: Original

Quoted from CATO 13-07. As you can see, it is perfectaly allowable for a cadet to be a res as well. However, if the cadet CO feels it will impact your service at either of the units in a negative way, they may inform you to leave the cadet corp.

Why you would do this I'm unsure, but you technically can.
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Offline Armoured Reservist

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2005, 17:55:21 »

Cadets is a youth organization designed to foster interest in the CF. By joining the CF, cadets has achieved its goal

I know that, but do the CIC's, the people incharge of the corps, know that. When my officers first heard that I was planning on quiting cadets at the end of this year (which i still am) to join the reserves, they tried to influence me to stay. They brought me into their office and they would talk to me about how the didnt want me to leave. I would think they would be happy, that cadets has made me want to join the reserves, but it seems I was wrong.

Offline aspiring officer

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2005, 18:15:23 »
Quote
They brought me into their office and they would talk to me about how the didnt want me to leave. I would think they would be happy, that cadets has made me want to join the reserves, but it seems I was wrong.
I believe its their duty to make sure you are aware of what you are doing, that you know the dangers and risks, etc. They only want the best for you.
The cadet movement and your corp has spent lots of money and effort on you, when you become a senior, you should start giving back by staying to guide the younger cadets and privates. If they didnt want you to leave, you should take it as a complement that you can do your job and do it well.

Offline Navalsnipr

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2005, 18:18:45 »
If a Cadet has completed most or all of the core training and now is a asset to the Corps then of course they will try and influence you to stay. You being a C/SGT would put you in a position that you could assist with instruction of junior Cadets and Supervise events. If you are able to do those jobs, then that frees up one of the CIC Officers to complete other tasks.

Looking at it another way, if you were to leave and lets say the Supply Officer now must start instructing, then there will be a delay on Cadets getting their initial issue of Uniforms, exchanges of Uniforms, and possibly ordering of equipment for exercises.

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Offline Love793

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2005, 23:34:00 »
Q.Y Ranger,

Out of curiosity, how much support do you guys get from the QYR?  Again just curious.
The role of Cavalry is to add dash and colour, to a otherwise drab event called war.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2005, 08:58:21 »
Hmm, Id never considered this a possibility.


As for being RegF and a cadet.. Im sure there is some regulation or another against it...  But I could be wrong.

My roommate at CFSJ (Under ROTP) lived near St Jean and went back to his Cadet Corps and volunteered.. originally he did not request permission, but then realized he was required to if he wanted to wear his Reg F uniform or use any of his kit (ruck, etc)... the COC was fairly accomodating, as long as it did not detract from his studies or course performance.  (Ie he helped out maybe 1-4 times on weekend FTX's).

AS others have mentioned.. while Cadets is certainly something to be proud of, when I was going through ROTP (RMC) there were a significant amount of people coming through who came from Cadets.. many knew each other, and most were the "top" or "senior" cadets... with a plethora of awards, ranks, etc....   I think it took all of two hours on our first day for one of the DS to proclaim that he did not give a rats ---- who had been in Cadets, and that we were all in the real military now.

Basically my suggestion would be to take the training you have gained and apply it when utilizing your skills, but always be open to bigger and better things.  By virtue of adolescent psychology and even liability alone, there are things you were either not capable of doing mentally or physically or legally when you were in Cadets that you may be able to do as you progress in a PRes or RegF role...  I learned a lot from many of the ex-Cadets who helped me get those bed corners folded, and gave suggestions on polishing boots... but when it came down to it, we all got jacked up for various things...   (oh... and many Cadets in the long run ended up being poor on the drill square... mostly because they refused to receive suggestions and advice on improving and thought they "knew it already")

The Canadian Govnt has invested funds into the Cadet organization, and as prev mentioned... it is a great recruiting tool. Probably the best ROI (return on investment) you can give is to join the military, complete training, and then volunteer back with your old Corps..... I can only see this being a far greate investment by yourself than staying on as a "Senior" cadet for one or two more years.

Offline Love793

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2005, 05:29:04 »
Quoted from CATO 13-07. As you can see, it is perfectaly allowable for a cadet to be a res as well. However, if the cadet CO feels it will impact your service at either of the units in a negative way, they may inform you to leave the cadet corp.

Why you would do this I'm unsure, but you technically can.

Yes, but the CO of the PRes unit may also order that Member not to parade with the cadet unit.  I have seen this occur.  Unfortunately for the member whom tried quoting the CATO (which DOES NOT supercede the QR&Os Vol(s)1-5), and parading anyhow, it resulted in that pers being Charged with offences under the NDA. Sect 77 - Disobeying a lawful order, and 129 Conduct Prejudicial to the Good Order and Discipline to be exact.  Touchy legal issues.
The role of Cavalry is to add dash and colour, to a otherwise drab event called war.

Offline condor888000

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2005, 13:21:22 »
Thanks for the info, I wasn't sure if the Res CO can order a cadet to no longer parade with the unit. That must stink for the person who tried to do both though...getting charged and all...
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Offline Meridian

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2005, 13:23:26 »
Well given that from my understanding he only got charged because he disobeyed an order and all.. I don't really feel much pity for the guy who wanted so badly to be in two military-oriented organizations that he disregarded the disciplinary bases of both..

If I misunderstood the situation, then oops :)

Offline marshall sl

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2005, 13:28:12 »
I did both back in the 70's. Joind the reserve battalion in March 76, went to Vernon on staff and was promoted to Cpl in the reserves that fall,the same time I was appointed RSM of the Cadet Corp. Did this til the fall of 77 when i aged out.

Had no problems with at all. In fact the OC of my Reserve Coy was also the CO of the Cadet Corp
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Offline condor888000

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2005, 13:30:11 »
Well given that from my understanding he only got charged because he disobeyed an order and all.. I don't really feel much pity for the guy who wanted so badly to be in two military-oriented organizations that he disregarded the disciplinary bases of both..

True, but it still musta been a real let down for him...
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Offline Love793

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2005, 13:45:19 »
The person was charged because they had violated the NDA, but that's neither here nor there.  Point is although some people can do it concurrently, some have problems doing it and forget what the priorities are.  When a member spends more time parading with a cadet corps as a cadet, than parading with their unit the line may have to be drawn.
The role of Cavalry is to add dash and colour, to a otherwise drab event called war.

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2005, 03:49:38 »
well, i'm a reservist on a simple Class A day once a week, and my kid's CO at his cadet unit wants me to do a ten day CIC boot camp and become one of their Cadet Officers....My PRes CO digs the idea....Is there anything stopping that?....How would that work then?  I'd be an PRes NCM but commissioned through the Cadet Corps?!?!?! ::)

Offline Saorse

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2005, 07:17:31 »
My brother is contemplating dropping cadets for the reserves once he turns 16 in August. It would literally be impossible for him or me to do them both as both training nights are on a Thursday, and the reserves is 2 hours away in Sydney, but he's got the go ahead from our father that he will get him there.

My father asked me the same question last year, but my answer was a swift, "no." Even given the commission and being directly involved with the Forces, I've put so much into the corps, they've put so much back into me, and I would never want to leave the small band of brothers that I've made. Just the way I feel about it.
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Offline Kyle Burrows

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2005, 09:37:59 »
Pssst only ossifers get comissions ;)
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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2005, 13:28:59 »
MCpl Saorse, then take your commision and become a CIC Officer. Best of both worlds right?

Offline Saorse

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2005, 14:23:44 »
Not too sure you can become a CIC at 16.  ;)

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Offline Slim2

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2005, 14:42:39 »
I've been in Army cadets for almost 2 years and I've decided to join the Reserves with the Queen's York Rangers. I've been talking with the recruiter, and i'm getting a lot of information.

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2005, 15:05:26 »
Not too sure you can become a CIC at 16.   ;)

I am not sure if you're trying to say that you can become CIC at 16 or if you're not sure sure if you can or can not.

Some searching says that you can not.

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Offline bugsy

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2005, 15:47:41 »
Steely, you can't be both a CIC Officer and a member of the PRes. You would have to transfer out of the PRes to the CIC to become an CIC Officer.  Instead, you could help out at the Cadet unit as an NCM, with permission from your unit, if you wanted to stay in the PRes.

Offline Armoured Reservist

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2005, 19:28:34 »
Q.Y Ranger,

Out of curiosity, how much support do you guys get from the QYR?   Again just curious.

What do you mean?

Offline Love793

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Re: Cadets Joining the Reserves
« Reply #49 on: January 15, 2005, 00:26:08 »
What do you mean?

How much "aid" do the QYR provide? (PM Me)
The role of Cavalry is to add dash and colour, to a otherwise drab event called war.