Author Topic: "Toronto 18" terrorists: Arrest/court/aftermath  (Read 107002 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Wizard of OZ

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 375
  • Another day another 32 cents after tax
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2006, 12:58:21 »
We do realize that these people will be tried in Canada right? 

Therefore even if they are convicted they will likely get 5-10 yrs in some estate style prison for their "own safety".

Wes

In some ways I can understand your concerns.  Yes it is very rare that leaders of Muslim communities de-nounce the activities of those who are terrorists.  But you have to be careful in your approach to solving the problem.

Imagine those that live in London UK having one of the largest extremist populations outside of the Middle East.

Yes it is sad that we can not all get along, but this will continue to happen until the different Islamic secs take on these Extremist secs on their own.  The more the West gets involved the more numbers the extremist get.
You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war. Albert Einstein

The Americans will always do the right thing... After they've exhausted all the alternatives.Winston Churchill

Offline Redbeaver

  • Guest
  • *
  • 1,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2006, 14:22:34 »
I'm going to have to disagree with those saying that they won't recieve proper punishment.  If convicted under the anti-terrorism act these guys are facing some major sentences.

From: http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/news/nr/2001/doc_27787.html

On sentencing:
Quote
The Criminal Code would also stipulate that the sentences imposed for each of these offences are to be served consecutively to any other sentence imposed relating to the same activity or event.

On early parole:
Quote
The offender would also be ineligible for parole for half of the sentence imposed unless the accused can demonstrate that it is not in the public interest. This is similar to the approach taken in Bill C-24, the Government of Canada's organized crime bill, and reflects the serious nature of these crimes.


Offline Haggis

  • "There ain't no hat badge on a helmet!"
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 53,335
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,512
  • "Oh, what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin, rich!"
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2006, 15:10:47 »
I'm going to have to disagree with those saying that they won't recieve proper punishment.  If convicted under the anti-terrorism act these guys are facing some major sentences.

From: http://www.justice.gc.ca/en/news/nr/2001/doc_27787.html

These are the same judges who sentence people under s85 of the Criminal Code for Using a Firearm in the Commission of an Offence?

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/267161.html#Section-85

Riiiighht!  I feel safer already.
Train like your life depends on it.  Some day, it may.

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2006, 15:50:31 »
Once again where are you going to send them if they were born here?
I still wonder how these terrorism laws will effect the young offenders.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 434,605
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,575
  • Crewman
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2006, 15:56:43 »
Once again where are you going to send them if they were born here?
I still wonder how these terrorism laws will effect the young offenders.

Well, like the former members of the FLQ, who felt that they had no allegiance to Canada in 1970, we can send them to Cuba also.

If Canada is not good enough for them, then we should send them somewhere else.  If they think that Islam is the way that they want to follow, and not 'Western Ways', let's send them to somewhere where they will experience what they desire in life.  Perhaps a HALO drop over Saudi Arabia w/o chutes.   ;D
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,075
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,644
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2006, 15:59:51 »
if you are involved / participate in a terrorist act then you should not be trialed under the young offender's act. You want to play with the big boys.....

If they are "born & bred" in Canada & are involved in a revolt / insurection, then I would offer to ship em to a couple of lovely places "Alert" or "Grise Fjord" come to mind...way, way up north.... there are no fences and if they want to attempt an escape.... let em try.
Chimo!

Offline geo

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 26,075
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,644
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2006, 16:20:50 »
moving from any totalitarian country to a "free form" democracy will require HUGE adaptation but, when you get down to it.... the people who have immigrated here WANT CHANGE, they want what we have and don't want to put up with the abuse and BS that has existed back at home.

To come here and throw on the Burqua once again..... WTF!
Chimo!

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 239,310
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,707
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2006, 16:32:16 »
Folks, I have not a racist bone in my body,....assholes come from every way, shape and form. However the ONE BIG problem I have with the whole situation is this,

I am a white male,....if 17 young white males had been arrested for plotting a terrorist attack, I, and everyone I know, would be cheering the arrests.

It seems though, that this sentiment is not reciprocated by the various Muslim groups.........and THAT is very, very wrong.

IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 239,310
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,707
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2006, 17:40:56 »
...and now for a change of pace.

According to Global News, 2 dozen members of the JTF-2 were on standby in coptors just minutes away from the alledged training camp......
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Redbeaver

  • Guest
  • *
  • 1,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2006, 18:03:10 »
I agree that there should be vigilance inside the Muslim communities and extremist clerics that lecture that the murder of non believers is justified need to be routed out.  But I don't think that Muslim communities across Canada should be burdened with having to prove that they don't endorse terrorism.  For most the only connection to the accused is that they share the same religion. 

Some are already speaking out: http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=1acfdf50-3657-4286-acbf-ae2b5de4cad0

Many Toronto area community leaders were involved in the investigation but there has been no mention yet of how much they cooperated.  I guess that will come out during the trial.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 239,310
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,707
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2006, 18:23:33 »
Nice editorial in the Toronto Sun today

Tue, June 6, 2006
   Long War Ahead
Some Apologists Contend Exclusion is Behind Terrorism

By Paul Jackson

You should never beat a woman, not even with a flower
-- Muhammad

Yes, I am somewhat well-versed in the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, perhaps more well-versed than adherents of the Islamic extremist world terrorist movement so determined to destroy western democracies.
Certainly more well-versed than the terrorist suspects in Ontario who, if the charges are true, took advantage of our nation's freedoms and prosperity only to then allegedly plot to spread destruction and death throughout our society.
The western democratic world is so obviously pitted in an all-out defensive position against radical Islamic tyrants aiming to undermine us, it's hard to ponder how any rational individual would ignore the threat.

But some still do. We're urged to be calm, not to throw stones.
We're even urged to make amends for perceived sins of the past -- to confess the crusades were really an assault against Islam, rather than a legitimate defence as extremist Islamic forces were at the very doors of Vienna.
Now they are in our midst.

I note the quote above by Muhammad to show how perverted the course of Islam has become, somewhat like Christianity in the guise of some money-hungry TV evangelists.
If Muhammad so abhorred violence a woman should not be beaten even with a flower, a contention in which I believe fully, then why are women in Muslim nations forbidden rights their sisters in other countries hold without question.

It's a philosophy driven mad by some, just as Germany under Adolf Hitler's Nazis and the Soviet Union under Josef Stalin's Communists.
There's talk about a "clash of cultures," meaning the Muslim world either can't deal with the technological changes stemming from the rest of the world, or is fighting against the immorality of the rest of the world.
Well, no one -- not even the Hitlers and the Stalins, or the Mao Zedong or Pol Pots -- have been able to halt mankind's progress, no matter what forces they tried to muster.

So one doubts the likes of Osama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will eventually fare much better. As long, that is, as we hold firm.
On the question of immorality, I tend to agree, having turned my back on Hollywood some time ago, but when basic human rights are denied to hundreds of millions in Muslim nations, there is a question there of immorality, too.
Some apologists -- and there are still a few of those lingering around -- contend 'home-grown' terrorists are that way because they have been excluded from mainstream society.

So who excluded them?
It's been my experience, and of my many friends of divergent creeds and cultures, mainstream society is more than willing to accept anyone who wants to join it.
No one needs to be excluded, unless they want to be.

It's a wide-open age in which we live.
Except if one is so intolerant they want to impose their totalitarian views on others.
In our mainstream society one can pick and choose just how to live: Anytime I see a photograph of the likes of Britney Spears in a newspaper, I turn the page. When I hear rap music in a bar, I walk out.

When I see New Democratic Party Leader Jack Layton on TV, I switch channels.
Western democracy is very exhilarating, unless the thought of freedom scares you.
Freedom -- and fairness -- scare some individuals, usually individuals with inferiority complexes who often turn into bullies as a defensive mechanism.

So what can we do to protect western democracy?

In Canada, we already started when we elected Stephen Harper prime minister, and when Harper made Stockwell Day public safety minister.
None of the fawning attitudes of former -- and failed -- prime ministers Jean Chretien or Paul Martin now.
In the U.S., President George W. Bush is a beacon of hope and courage compared to the likes of Al Gore or John Kerry.
In Britain, Tony Blair is a man of steel, as is Australia's John Howard. Angela Merkel is a far more stalwart leader in Germany than was Gerhard Schroeder.
What we must remember is it took us 12 years -- from 1933 to 1945 to beat Germanic Nazism, and and some 74 years -- from 1917 to 1991 -- to whip Soviet Communism.

This is going to be a long war and we must not waver
 
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 97,930
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,227
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2006, 22:15:09 »
Melanie Phillips wrote an excellant book called Londonistan recently published in the US. She seem's to have predicted this chain of events.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/archives/001734.html

Offline MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 63,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,096
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2006, 22:27:34 »
tamouh:
Quote
the 'founding fathers'

were American.  In Canada we have the "Fathers of Confederation".
http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/aia/default.asp?Language=E&Page=federation&Sub=WhoWeretheFathersofConfe

The result of the Oes perhaps?

It seems to me you know your enemy but not your own country.  Quelle surprise.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 97,930
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,227
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #63 on: June 06, 2006, 22:33:58 »
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=22443

Melanie Phillips discussing her book in an interview. She makes a very good case backed up by current events.

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2006, 00:41:09 »
Well on the lighter side one of the lawyers said his client as accused of planning of storming the CBC and taking it over.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline Technoviking

    DANCE TO THE TECHNOVIKING.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 182,386
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,847
  • OBEY!
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2006, 04:14:37 »
Folks, I have not a racist bone in my body,....assholes come from every way, shape and form. However the ONE BIG problem I have with the whole situation is this,

I am a white male,....if 17 young white males had been arrested for plotting a terrorist attack, I, and everyone I know, would be cheering the arrests.

It seems though, that this sentiment is not reciprocated by the various Muslim groups.........and THAT is very, very wrong.


Just as when McVeigh was arrested, I cheered. 

+1
So, there I was....

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,526
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2006, 06:50:58 »
Interesting take by at least one academic (as usual,  shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

Don't glamorize plotters as 'terrorists,' prof says, but as 'misguided cowards'
CanWest News Service, June 07, 2006

''The men arrested in connection with the alleged terrorist plot shouldn't be seen as Muslim terrorists but as idiotic thugs if the charges against them are true, says a University of Toronto psychology professor. "To call them Muslim terrorists, in my estimation, is a mistake. They're misguided totalitarian cowards and they're out for revenge," said Jordan Peterson, who studies the psychology of terrorism. "It's dumb and cowardly and they're in the same league ... as bone-headed skinheads in Eastern Germany." Mr. Peterson, an associate professor in U of T's psychology department, said calling such people terrorists only romanticizes them and gives them the notoriety they are seeking for their cause. "People like to think that those who are plotting against us are smart, because no one likes to think our society can be attacked by idiots," he said. ''
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,526
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2006, 06:57:19 »
Here we go - the "crazed ex-militaman" card....

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act - http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409

http://www.640toronto.com/news/metro.cfm?cat=7428109912&rem=39853&red=80110923aPBIny&wids=410&gi=1&gm=metro.cfm
 
Terror Suspect is Former Canadian Military Reservist
640Toronto.com, Jun, 07 2006 - 4:10 AM

''TORONTO - A new report suggests one of the 17 men charged in this weekend's anti-terrorism raids served as a Canadian military reservist for four years.

Yesterday, the lawyer for Steven Chand shocked reporters outside a Brampton courtroom when he revealed his client was suspected of plotting to behead the Prime Minister. And now, there's word the 25-year-old is a former member of the Royal Regiment of Canada, a reservist unit that meets in Toronto.

A military spokesperson confirms Chand once served in the military, but says he was absent for a lot of the time he spent in uniform. Chand would likely have received weapons training.''
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 209,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,937
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2006, 08:53:53 »
This problem originates in the Muslim community, why is that community not speaking up about it.
Oh sure, we hear the occasional spokesman gently reminding us that not all muslims are like this, but this process begs the question, "If you are not like this, why are you allowing it by ignoring it?"
 Passive acceptance works as well as active acceptance, and if you get painted by the same brush so be it.
Muslims need to clean up their own back yard loudly and clearly, only then they will have credibility.

 In the meantime, we, the general population of Canada, of whatever race, color or religion, will continue to racial profile those that are perpetuating the planning and activation of terrorist acts.

It's actually quite simple. If muslims are supporting or participating in terrorist acts, then DON'T tell us not to look at you!!
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline MarkOttawa

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 63,375
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,096
  • Two birthdays
    • The 3Ds Blog
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2006, 10:00:40 »
An eye-opening article (in the Star!) by Tarek Fatah, Communications Director of the Muslim Canadian Congress, "Keep politics out of our mosques: Muslims cannot sit still while a fascist cult of Islamic supremacy takes over places of worship".
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149630611454&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795

Excerpts:

'Three years ago when Kuwaiti Islamist scholar Tareq Al Suwaidian told a Toronto crowd that "Western civilization is rotten from within and nearing collapse ... it (the West) will continue to grow until an outside force hits it and you will be surprised at how quickly it falls," he was lustily cheered by the nearly 2,000 young Muslim men and women.

I was deeply offended by the hostile remark, but the thunderous approving applause of the young audience simply stunned me. All I could do was muster the courage and stage a polite walkout.

That day I resolved to fight this hostility toward the modern nation-state and Western civilization that was engulfing a section of Canadian Muslim youth; one that was being fanned by the leadership of the traditional Muslim organizations and Islamic radicals who took inspiration from the ruling elites of Iran and Saudi Arabia...

While the overwhelming majority of Canada's Muslims have been stunned by this development, few can honestly deny that they had seen this coming.

For years, some of us have been incessantly talking and writing about the growth of this extremist phenomenon, this contempt for secular parliamentary democracy and non-stop berating of Muslim youth who become "Canadian" and warnings to them that they will be punished in the hereafter if they do not adhere to the barren version of Islam where joy itself is a sin.

In the last five years, we Muslims have had more than our share of terrorism done in the name of our faith. Whether it is terrorist attacks in India or the hundreds of simultaneous bombings in 300 cities of Bangladesh; whether it is massacres of Muslims by Muslims in Iraq or the genocide of Muslims by Muslims in Darfur, the traditional leadership of the Muslim community responds repeatedly in a similar manner: abject denial...

There is not a single mosque in Canada where Muslims with opposing views can debate anything political, social or theological. The doors of debate are shut by the cement of orthodoxy. Only doublespeak and hypocrisy are allowed to flourish. As long as Muslims can find someone else to blame for our ills, the problem is seen as resolved.

I say, enough is enough. Muslims cannot go on behaving as if everything is normal. We cannot sit still while a fascist cult of Islamic supremacy takes over our mosques...'

Good on him and good on the Star.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2006, 10:26:41 »
Anyone see the CBC's Enemy Within.  They went to Amsterdam and Britain and interviewed both sides.  The Muslims were portrayed as being segrigated (by their own doing and their neighbours) and showed no attempt to become part of the nation they now lived in.  They also highlighted the response by the Danes and Brits.  It seems that the Danes have institued a policy of intergration whereby the muslims must right a test, speak the local dialect.  If any muslim commits a crime as small as shop lifting they are immediately deported.  Basically the premise was "Is Multi-culturalism Dead".
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline probum non poenitet

  • Member
  • ****
  • -60
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 161
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #71 on: June 07, 2006, 10:40:52 »
On a slightly different tangent, doesn't it seem odd that these fellows are being tried as regular criminals?
I keep replaying Bush's statement after 9-11 that these "Were not acts of terror, but acts of war."

The facts are not all in, but destruction of Parliament, murder of the PM, firing into crowds at random, these are acts of insurrection rather than crimes.

Shouldn't our justice system adapt? Shouldn't there be new laws written and new prisons built. I'm no expert, but do we need a Northern Ireland-style H-Block, a U.S.-style Gitmo, or whatever it is the Israelis use?

These young fellows seem thrilled by the idea of martyrdom, so the death penalty is just a sick enticement.
12 years of the Karla Homolka spa treatment won't be much of a message either.

All hysteria aside, what about military prison? Or a new detention facility at C.F.S. Alert?
After all, the military does become involved in insurrections. Ugly fact, but it chose us, not the other way around.

I think if you were 17 and new your 'brothers' were sitting in a hole in the Arctic for the next 60 years of their miserable lives, it might sap some of the glamour out of martyrdom.

I don't give a rat's *** for the rights of these fellows. Stealing a car or robbing a 7-11 is bad enough, but what they intended decries all defence of "he was young" or "alienation" or any of that crap. They wanted to launch a mini-Holocaust.

Any of you more reasoned minds out there have a comment on that?
What you leave behind is not what is engraved in stone monuments, but what is woven into the lives of others.
- Pericles

Offline Wizard of OZ

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • -15
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 375
  • Another day another 32 cents after tax
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2006, 10:48:11 »
On a slightly different tangent, doesn't it seem odd that these fellows are being tried as regular criminals?
I keep replaying Bush's statement after 9-11 that these "Were not acts of terror, but acts of war."

The facts are not all in, but destruction of Parliament, murder of the PM, firing into crowds at random, these are acts of insurrection rather than crimes.

Shouldn't our justice system adapt? Shouldn't there be new laws written and new prisons built. I'm no expert, but do we need a Northern Ireland-style H-Block, a U.S.-style Gitmo, or whatever it is the Israelis use?

These young fellows seem thrilled by the idea of martyrdom, so the death penalty is just a sick enticement.
12 years of the Karla Homolka spa treatment won't be much of a message either.

All hysteria aside, what about military prison? Or a new detention facility at C.F.S. Alert?
After all, the military does become involved in insurrections. Ugly fact, but it chose us, not the other way around.

I think if you were 17 and new your 'brothers' were sitting in a hole in the Arctic for the next 60 years of their miserable lives, it might sap some of the glamour out of martyrdom.

I don't give a rat's *** for the rights of these fellows. Stealing a car or robbing a 7-11 is bad enough, but what they intended decries all defence of "he was young" or "alienation" or any of that crap. They wanted to launch a mini-Holocaust.

Any of you more reasoned minds out there have a comment on that?

As far the prisons are concerned HANS island has been sugested.

I don't think using the CFSDB is what would help the situation,  the DB is more for re-hablitaion of soilders and re-installing discipline then it would be for detention of terroist.

Your right though those seem to more acts of war then actual crimes.  But then we need the government to step up and make the laws that would apply properly.(time to dust off the CC of C and revamp some of the older Part II offences against Public order sections)

You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war. Albert Einstein

The Americans will always do the right thing... After they've exhausted all the alternatives.Winston Churchill

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2006, 11:02:23 »
Wiz I'm not sure anymore.  In Europe at least it seems like conquest through Muslim population saturation.  In time the Muslims outnumber most other ethnicities, get into gov't democratically and then begin to change the country.  Conspiracy of a scared white male.  Possibly.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity

Offline Sheep Dog AT

  • The Fly in Someone's Ointment - Giggity
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 58,110
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,218
Re: National security forces arrest 17 in Toronto raids
« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2006, 11:50:23 »
I think their endstate is Afghanistan pre 9/11.  Once this has happened then there life is dedicated to maintaining this ideal.
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
Oh Giggity Well...........Giggity