Author Topic: Response's To "Ruxted On The Media's Handling Of Cpl. Boneca's Death"  (Read 76483 times)

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Offline Chris Pook

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I remember you now. I hear you had a tough go of things. Welcome home, and thank you for great work. Try and relax, okay?

I remember you too SBD and can only echo Whiskey's remarks.  Welcome home and thanks. 
"Wyrd bið ful aræd"

Offline MarkOttawa

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Echo9: Brilliant.

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline kilekaldar

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Speaking as a RegForce member scheduled for a tour to A'stan in August, I find the recent line of reporting on Cpl. Boneca's death in action to be a digusting attempt to sensationalize the story even further in a cynical pursuit for more ratings. This sort of speculation is not only bad reporting, but gross and ghoulish. As it has been stated before in this forum, the only person who can tell us how he felt is dead. But that is irrelevant, his feelings were his own, private, personnal, and should not be subject to public speculation by reporters after his passing for political gain, or for the media to generate more revenue.
Anything else is so disrespectful that I have no words for the uglyness of it.
The closest I can come is in french, we would say that this is 'sale', or dirty.


Offline silentbutdeadly

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yeah don't get me wrong , i dislike the media as the next guy, but i think in away its the military's fault for all this to, i worked with the yanks and the brits over there and we have the most media there then those to nations forsure, i had to kick troops out of lav's and but them in G wagons , so the media was protected. So yeah i hate when the media gets involed when one of our fine troops over there get killed, but alot of those things said were true , yes they were second, third and fouth hand knowledge but somewhat  very true. Yes guys at the end of a tour want to go home no doubt!  its hard to explain without getting in trouble but alot of things were wrong with this mission and not by the troops they worked there asses off.

Offline big bad john (John Hill)

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I didn't trust reporters when I was serving.  I still don't trust reporters now.  If they don't have the story they want, they will find a way to get it in many circumstance's.  When I talk to the press I want a witness and I want it very clear what is said from experience.  In this case as has been mentioned I have heard nothing directly from the young Corporal.  Just some distressed family and loved ones.  We can feel their pain and understand it.  Not like it, but understand it.

Offline dglad

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I would never presume to guess or interpret what words may have passed between Cpl Boneca and his loved ones here in Thunder Bay, or elsewhere.  Nor would I presume to speculate what this remarkable young man may have been thinking or feeling through his final weeks and days.  The closest I can come to the latter is my own feelings, in my last few weeks in Bosnia; that was nowhere near as dangerous a theatre as Afghanistan when I was there, yet I know that I was heartily sick of the place and wanted nothing more than to come home.  I think it is only reasonable that Cpl Boneca, along with almost all of his comrades in arms currently deployed in Afghanistan would feel the same way at this late date in their deployment, only much more so, given the conditions in that poor, war-battered country.

That all said, none of it takes away the point I made a day or so ago on this forum...knowing Cpl Boneca as well as I do, I have no doubt whatsoever that he applied himself fully and well to the job he had to do, no matter what his feelings may have been.  That, I believe, is the mark of a true professional--doing your job, and doing it well, when it may very well be the LAST thing you want to do.  I spent enough time with Cpl Boneca to know that this was the type of person he was.  None of what has appeared in the media will change, one iota, my respect, admiration and fondness for this courageous young soldier. 

Dave Laderoute
LCol
CO LSSR 2001-2004

Whatever interests the Commander should fascinate his subordinates.

Offline George Wallace

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dglad

We all tend to agree with you.  The real SHAME here is the Press and 'People' who are promoting a political agenda in a time of grief. 
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Offline KevinB

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dglad

We all tend to agree with you.  The real SHAME here is the Press and 'People' who are promoting a political agenda in a time of grief. 

+1
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Offline silentbutdeadly

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+2

Offline GAP

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dglad and all those who have been in country (whereever) and seen the elephant.  No civilian, especially the media, will ever understand the weariness and frustration to "just have it over" towards the end of a tour. Part of that process is thinking and talking wild *** things.

But how do you communicate that to the uninitiated.?

It is mostly misconstrued, misinterpreted, and totally misunderstood. (and that has not changed to this day)
Within a month of my coming back from Viet Nam, I totally shut up about it for close to 30 years. The few times I tried to talk to people, the response was totally unsatisfactory, and I just gave up. It wasn't until my son was in the CF that I could relate to what he was going through, and if pride could be measured, I'd have a mountain.

Canadians ARE proud of you members who serve and protect, but all we hear is those who would tear it all down in the name of appeasement.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline Jarnhamar

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i had to kick troops out of lav's and but them in G wagons , so the media was protected

Maybe we are bending over backwards a little too far to accomodate the media. I think the media and our relations with them is very important but honestly, kicking troops out of their own lav so a reporter can tag along?

Not cool.  
I can only hope Canadians don't condone putting our troops in more danger than required in order to get a few snapshots and a story from an "embeded" reporter.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline beenthere

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I did a 6 month tour in the Middle East living in a whole lot better conditions than anyone in Afghanistan could even dream of and if anyone would have heard my words in the last few calls that I made home they would have had the impression that when I got back to Canada I never wanted to even remember that I'd ever been in the M.E. much less think about ever going there again. Had I died there my family's impression of my tour would have been that I had absolutely detested it. "That's the last thing that he ever told us."
In fact I loved my 6 months over there and many times I've wanted to do it all over again. However during the last few weeks before leaving I developed a huge case of "gethomitus" and like many folks I became rather negative about the whole scene. It's probably a very natural reaction for anyone who has been thrown into a lifestyle where work,leisure and rest are all combined and compacted into the constraints of a military base that seems to consume one over time. Add the stress of combat and a generally unstable atmosphere that surrounds the whole area and anyone who is about to leave it all behind is likely to develop an attitude.
It's also a time when it's very easy to make mistakes or become complacent so watch yourself and your buddies. :salute:
But not lately. If I could do it all over again I would  change one thing.

Offline Infanteer

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I concur with the last few posts; everybody experiences the doldrums while deployed.

Unfortunately, some in the press don't understand the meaning of "Rest in Peace".


 >:(
"Overall it appears that much of the apparent complexity of modern war stems in practice from the self-imposed complexity of modern HQs" LCol J.P. Storr

Offline tingbudong

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echo wrote: 
Quote
Where my dismay comes from is that a mere 2 generations ago, Canada stood firm against fascism.

On a hypothetical note (pre-apologies to those who detest 'what if' scenarios)

I've always felt that the current generation (my generation) takes a rather soft postion towards Islamo-Facisim, yet still maintains a strong anti-nazism postion, being very quick (and rightly so) to jump on anyone or anything conveying or preaching any sort of neo or psuedo nazi   ideologies 

I believe it would be interesting to substitute the present Islamo-facism with a comparable rise in western facism (ie. German/Italian 1930's ideologies).  What would my generations response be?     
"That's some catch, that Catch-22" - Captain Yossarian

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Latest approach of the media (according to news tease on CBC Radio here in T.Bay):  "The family wants people to know they're not being censored by the military."

I understand that a military member is at the house to help deal with media and other people coming through.  But I guess a family wanting privacy is censorship, right?  >:(
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Offline 3rd Horseman

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Been there,  Nicely said!

  It is IMHO that soldiers who have been so intensely involved in activities such as nation building through their activities in combat that on departure they must detach, its a natural human reaction to deal with leaving the job undone and handing over to the next group. Combat and combat activities are the height of commitment mentally, physically and emotionally it requires the brain to undo that intensity on preparing to go home to the real world. As Been there has said, in the last few weeks we all have doubts, its natural.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 08:12:59 by 3rd Horseman »
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Offline Springroll

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First off, they are not reporting what "He Said", they are reporting what "His Girlfriend's FATHER Said".  A whole different ballgame there.  It is Third Hand or even Fourth Hand "Speculation" which would be unbelievable in all other circles. 

Last night on The National, it was his girlfriend that was saying that.
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Offline tonykeene

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May I ask for a bit of consideration here for the reporters?  They are, after all, only reporting what they were specifically told by members of the family.  They didn't make this stuff up.
Whoever provided these quotes to the media did so for a reason.  Maybe we should ask THEM what their motivation is.

Of course, it was inevitable that, after years of involvement in Afghanistan with nothing but unstinting praise for our soldiers, someone had to eventually sound a dissenting trumpet.  These things come in waves.

Please don't thump the media too hard.  After all, these folks have for a very long time been singing our praises, not only in news coverage but in editorials.  And we don't hesitate to make use of them when we want to get our point across.  Your average journalist has no idea what training, preparation etc a reservist goes through before deploying.  And given the pressure of their jobs, they have very little chance to find out unless someone pointedly explains it to them.



Keener

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To give everyone a bit of a break from the media bashing the military, and us bashing the media, I've just posted a brief (LT 2 minutes) video, using public domain photos, backed by the "Skye Boat Song" (official slow march of the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPsogi_7jDo

A bit of a chance to pause, reflect and remember....

“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

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Offline GAP

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May I ask for a bit of consideration here for the reporters?  They are, after all, only reporting what they were specifically told by members of the family.  They didn't make this stuff up.
Whoever provided these quotes to the media did so for a reason.  Maybe we should ask THEM what their motivation is.

Of course, it was inevitable that, after years of involvement in Afghanistan with nothing but unstinting praise for our soldiers, someone had to eventually sound a dissenting trumpet.  These things come in waves.

Please don't thump the media too hard.  After all, these folks have for a very long time been singing our praises, not only in news coverage but in editorials.  And we don't hesitate to make use of them when we want to get our point across.  Your average journalist has no idea what training, preparation etc a reservist goes through before deploying.  And given the pressure of their jobs, they have very little chance to find out unless someone pointedly explains it to them.

While I don't disagree with your sentiments, you have a better perspective of their process than most of us.

What I question is the use of 2nd, and 3rd hand comments, no context, as statements of fact, when the person cannot confirm nor refute them.  This is not good journalism, simply sensationalism at a time when we should be remembering and honoring the soldier. The attention getting antics of other people, whether through grief or something else has no place here and should not have been sensationalized as it was.
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Offline George Wallace

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I'm sorry tonykeene, but you are a biased observer here.  In the most part we have not narrowed our sights in on the Press, we have been including them in with the people and organizations who seem to be promoting a Political Agenda.  The Press are as guilty as the persons making those statements when they replicate them in the following manner:

Quote
"He expected to be on patrol, not fighting a war for someone else,'' said DeCorte. "He wasn't ready for that.''

That statement was it's own paragraph in the news article.  It was meant to stand out and catch the eye.  The highlighted (By me.) portion is a Political Statement replicated by the Press to further a Political Agenda.  Are the Press free, or are they Pawns to this 'group'?  Your call.

The Press can be considered "guilty by association" in this case, don't you think?

[EDIT to add link to news article in question.]  http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060710/canada_soldier_boneca_060710/20060710?hub=TopStories
« Last Edit: July 11, 2006, 09:29:43 by George Wallace »
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Offline MarkOttawa

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It is disgusting  in the extreme and preposterous for anyone to suggest morale here is low.

Matthew Fisher, CanWest  reporter with the Canadian Forces in Afghanistan, says in an interview this morning  (audio at link)
http://www.cfra.com/chum_audio/Matthew_Fisher_July11.mp3

on CFRA, Ottawa.  He is talking about media coverage of Cpl. Anthony Joseph Boneca's death.

You must listen to the whole thing.  Two more samples:

Quote
This is real war..and then to be bogged down by the typical small-minded Canadian wishy-washy issues, I had hoped Canada was emerging from this period of self-doubt but apparently it isn't.

Quote
...he received exactly the same infantry training as everyone else who came here.

And just at this moment the Globe's Margaret Wente gives up (full text not officially online).  Pitiful.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060711.wxcowent11/BNStory/National/home

Quote
Repairing Afghanistan is a noble cause. It's also mission impossible. I suspect that, before too long, more and more Canadians will decide that it's not our fight.

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline tonykeene

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Well, please understand that when someone says something that is different, or that goes against the flow, it makes news automatically.  As a young reporter 30 years ago, I would have put that quote on its own too, for very simple reasons.  It stands out.
The folks who write the news have, as individuals, no agenda versus the military or anyone else.  In fact, the many journalists now with our soldiers on operations are, by and large, great supporters of them.  Some have even been accused, by those opposed to military intervention, of jingoism.  They just can't win.
I've been through this myself.  When reporting on the courts, the defence layers accused me of being a tool of the Crown.  The Crown Attorney bitched that I was a left-leaning bleeding heart liberal who wanted to see scumbags let off easy.  When reporting labour, the unions accused me of being a tool of the management, and the owners bitched that I was a lefty union sympathizer.  All I did was write down what people told me, and I tried to put it in an interesting and appealing format.

The media, as institutions, have a natural liberal tendency in democracies.  After all, in right wing countries control of the media is endemic.  But I have never, ever heard an editor, in all my decades of experience, tell a reporter to go out and "get" the military, the politician, the company owner etc.  While it is true that one paper hates the Government of the day, and the other praises it, both will report a car crash, a fire or a soldier's death in almost the same way.  That's not bias, it's just news.

Most media funerals are self catered.  The reporters went to the family to find out how the family felt.  The family had the opportunity to say whatever they wanted.  This person obviously had a message he wanted to get out.  I'm sure the reporters did not ask:" Please say something negative about your soldier."  The message could just as easily have been a positive one.

When other family members of other soldiers have been widely quoted as praising their loved one's belief in what he or she was doing, we did not ***** at the reporters for being biased.  Talking to the family of someone who has died tragically is a heart-wrenching experience, believe me.  I've had to do it myself.  Just because someone has said something that upsets us, we should not ***** at the reporters for doing what they are paid to do...reporting.

Most reporters in Canada are young people trying to do a good job.  They don't have the benefit of 20 years experience in the police, fire department or the military.  They are not trained and experienced lawyers or engineers or anything else.  They ask questions, and they get answers.  They of course sometimes get it wrong, but so do we.

Let's look where the information or the quote came from.  And remember, the reporters will quote someone who rebuts this statement, just as readily.  All it takes is someone with the knowledge, and the guts, to step up to the microphone and speak out.


Keener

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Matt Fisher interview WELL worth listening to!  Thanks for sharing!
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

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Offline Springroll

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To give everyone a bit of a break from the media bashing the military, and us bashing the media, I've just posted a brief (LT 2 minutes) video, using public domain photos, backed by the "Skye Boat Song" (official slow march of the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPsogi_7jDo

A bit of a chance to pause, reflect and remember....



Thank you for posting that.
It was very humbling and does help to put things back into perspective.
"Take every day with a grain of salt. This works much better if the salt accompanies a Margarita"